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If I may step out of line here for a second by talking about the information we've recieved, rather than moaning-counter moaning about Final Mixes (again x100) and do a little theorising about the No Heart revelation that a lot of us have been speculating with for a long time now.

(MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF SPECULATION FOLLOW)
Er-herm
Clearly Master Xehanort as we know him wasn't born with the name No Heart, and as such either himself or someone else must have given him this name at some stage.
Let's assume for a moment that the boy from DI that we will later know as Master Xehanort (hereby referred to by me as Origin Xehanort, OX) was living his life on DI, and like SRK sought to escape his world ("this world is too small", opening scene of BBS). Through a series of circumstances, which for the time being are irrelevant, OX is able to leave DI but somehow finds himself stranded either in the lanes between, or in a dark corridor, or in someway becomes over exposed to the darkness. Eraqus' master, (or someone else responsible for maintaining the balance of light and darkness in the worlds and investigating things that may upset this balance), finds and saves OX, who's heart is now very corrupted by darkness and brings him to LoD. The barely conscious OX is unable to recall anything about who he is or where he came from, (ala Terra-nort, a dark heart sustained in a darkened vessel). Eraqus' master, being a dark-fearing master (whose traits Eraqus picked up) sees that his heart is smothered by darkness, and locks it (Terra must have learned the technique somewhere) to prevent the terrible powers OX now has from being used and gives him the temporary name of No Heart, or Another, though, as this is a pretty cruel name to bestow on someone gives him the name of Xehanort, and as Ven had to do, OX, now known as Xehanort reforms himself as a person, and forms a friendship with Eraqus. We know from reports that a young Xehanort originally turned to darkness, or was at least tempted by it early in his keyblading career. Perhaps the darkness from the Lanes Between was calling on the darkness locked away within the Young Xehanort, where he was eventually corrupted and made pure evil. (mwahaha)

So in essence my idea of the 'No Name' boss is some figment of how Xehnort was when he was much younger than the old man we see in BBS.

(Now for a bit of theory hole covering)
When speakign of Xehanort, Eraqus never mentions a name change to TVA, but then again why would he. The pupils have just met MX, (unless TV briefly met him when he dropped Ven off at LoD), and Eraqus is hardly about to disrepute his former rival to his own pupils by telling them of how they came to met, that would be disrespectful if nothing else.

Riku mentions in BBS that he knew of a boy who left DI a long time ago. Surely he is a thing of urban legend, and even if Riku couldn't recall the name then and there (to Aqua I think it was?) surely if someone said OX's true name to Sora or Riku, then they would recall him as being someone form there home. But all through KH2 Sora shows no recollection of the name Xehanort, after it is first mentioned to him by Mickey in HB.

That'll do for now, I know it kinda doesn't belong here but it's more productive than FM bashing, plus I'd quite like to hear Grass's and others takes on the whole 'No Name' thing we have now. I look forward to being hung drawn and quartered by you all
 

chasespicer056

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If I may step out of line here for a second by talking about the information we've recieved, rather than moaning-counter moaning about Final Mixes (again x100) and do a little theorising about the No Heart revelation that a lot of us have been speculating with for a long time now.

(MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF SPECULATION FOLLOW)
Er-herm
Clearly Master Xehanort as we know him wasn't born with the name No Heart, and as such either himself or someone else must have given him this name at some stage.
Let's assume for a moment that the boy from DI that we will later know as Master Xehanort (hereby referred to by me as Origin Xehanort, OX) was living his life on DI, and like SRK sought to escape his world ("this world is too small", opening scene of BBS). Through a series of circumstances, which for the time being are irrelevant, OX is able to leave DI but somehow finds himself stranded either in the lanes between, or in a dark corridor, or in someway becomes over exposed to the darkness. Eraqus' master, (or someone else responsible for maintaining the balance of light and darkness in the worlds and investigating things that may upset this balance), finds and saves OX, who's heart is now very corrupted by darkness and brings him to LoD. The barely conscious OX is unable to recall anything about who he is or where he came from, (ala Terra-nort, a dark heart sustained in a darkened vessel). Eraqus' master, being a dark-fearing master (whose traits Eraqus picked up) sees that his heart is smothered by darkness, and locks it (Terra must have learned the technique somewhere) to prevent the terrible powers OX now has from being used and gives him the temporary name of No Heart, or Another, though, as this is a pretty cruel name to bestow on someone gives him the name of Xehanort, and as Ven had to do, OX, now known as Xehanort reforms himself as a person, and forms a friendship with Eraqus. We know from reports that a young Xehanort originally turned to darkness, or was at least tempted by it early in his keyblading career. Perhaps the darkness from the Lanes Between was calling on the darkness locked away within the Young Xehanort, where he was eventually corrupted and made pure evil. (mwahaha)

So in essence my idea of the 'No Name' boss is some figment of how Xehnort was when he was much younger than the old man we see in BBS.

(Now for a bit of theory hole covering)
When speakign of Xehanort, Eraqus never mentions a name change to TVA, but then again why would he. The pupils have just met MX, (unless TV briefly met him when he dropped Ven off at LoD), and Eraqus is hardly about to disrepute his former rival to his own pupils by telling them of how they came to met, that would be disrespectful if nothing else.

Riku mentions in BBS that he knew of a boy who left DI a long time ago. Surely he is a thing of urban legend, and even if Riku couldn't recall the name then and there (to Aqua I think it was?) surely if someone said OX's true name to Sora or Riku, then they would recall him as being someone form there home. But all through KH2 Sora shows no recollection of the name Xehanort, after it is first mentioned to him by Mickey in HB.

That'll do for now, I know it kinda doesn't belong here but it's more productive than FM bashing, plus I'd quite like to hear Grass's and others takes on the whole 'No Name' thing we have now. I look forward to being hung drawn and quartered by you all

Wow! Thank you. I believe that THIS is the most significant point you make actually:

Riku mentions in BBS that he knew of a boy who left DI a long time ago. Surely he is a thing of urban legend, and even if Riku couldn't recall the name then and there (to Aqua I think it was?) surely if someone said OX's true name to Sora or Riku, then they would recall him as being someone form there home. But all through KH2 Sora shows no recollection of the name Xehanort, after it is first mentioned to him by Mickey in HB.

That's so true! Riku, who is confirmed to know about the boy, didn't recognize the name. So, it must not be his true name then!

Great job on this theory! It's incredibly well thought out and convincing.
 

HeartSeams

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I don't see why they would. His disappearance was probably a huge mystery back then and everyone probably pondered about it.
Or, you know, they just deem it a "fairytale" and forget about it. Which is the more likely situation anyway, as it is the answer why no one remembers the stuff from BBS pretty much.
 

chasespicer056

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Or, you know, they just deem it a "fairytale" and forget about it. Which is the more likely situation anyway, as it is the answer why no one remembers the stuff from BBS pretty much.

It's not that nobody remembers it. It's just that TAV's names were never mentioned, and Mickey, Yen Sid, Donald, and Goofy, some of the few who would know about those events, never saw Roxas.

But considering Xehanort's name was mentioned on SEVERAL occasions, Riku or possibly Sora if he knows about the tale should have recognized it at some point. Yet they didn't.
 

HeartSeams

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It's not that nobody remembers it. It's just that TAV's names were never mentioned, and Mickey, Yen Sid, Donald, and Goofy, some of the few who would know about those events, never saw Roxas.
It's actually more like they forgot. I'm not saying the memories disappeared, but, just saying the names wouldn't cause them to remember instantaneously. in fact, when Sora sees TAV in Re:Coded all he's certain is that it "feels like he's met them before". he doesn't remember the specific event which kind of proves my point.

And you're also assuming the legend of "the kid who left" even has a name. Perhaps the legend is just like this "a long time ago, there was a boy who left". Which means, his name was never actually associated with it to begin with. And when you think about it, do urban legends even really have names tied to them? Not really. It's always in generics. "A boy left" or "This girl was murdered". It isn't "A boy named Xehanort left".

Sorry, but, this isn't really that solid of evidence for the "MX has a fake name" theory.
 

Kyonne

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There's no reason watsoever for Sora to actually remember Aqua and Terra, he only talked with Aqua for a short time and only gave a glance to Terra, Terra was a great influence for Riku, yeah, but he promised to keep secret or the magic would go away
Mickey didn't say anything to Sora and the others because he simply DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME
Seriously he's busy the entire KH2, why would he tell something like that with bigger problems in hand?
 

chasespicer056

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It's actually more like they forgot. I'm not saying the memories disappeared, but, just saying the names wouldn't cause them to remember instantaneously. in fact, when Sora sees TAV in Re:Coded all he's certain is that it "feels like he's met them before". he doesn't remember the specific event which kind of proves my point.

And you're also assuming the legend of "the kid who left" even has a name. Perhaps the legend is just like this "a long time ago, there was a boy who left". Which means, his name was never actually associated with it to begin with. And when you think about it, do urban legends even really have names tied to them? Not really. It's always in generics. "A boy left" or "This girl was murdered". It isn't "A boy named Xehanort left".

Sorry, but, this isn't really that solid of evidence for the "MX has a fake name" theory.

To be fair TAV never even told Sora their names! Terra didn't speak to him even. Of course he won't remember them.

And the way Riku mentioned the story about Xehanort leaving, it didn't sound like people spoke of it like an urban legend. It said it as if it were a fact, as if everyone knew that a boy left the islands a long time ago and knew what his name was.

There's no reason watsoever for Sora to actually remember Aqua and Terra, he only talked with Aqua for a short time and only gave a glance to Terra, Terra was a great influence for Riku, yeah, but he promised to keep secret or the magic would go away
Mickey didn't say anything to Sora and the others because he simply DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME
Seriously he's busy the entire KH2, why would he tell something like that with bigger problems in hand?

Thank you!

And HeartSeams, think of it this way. Riku is OBSESSED with leaving the islands. So one day he is whining about how he wants to leave the islands. His parents tell him the story of a boy who did. Naturally like any little kid, Riku starts pestering them about who he was and how he did it, and eventually they tell him the boy's name, yet explain that nobody knows how he left.

That's how I think it probably happened. And the reason Riku never remembered his name is because Xehanort is NOT his name.
 

kupo1121

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I'm not shocked that they have yet another new boss. I'm OK with it though because the more they get, when I do import it, the more I'll get xP
 

Silverslide

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I'm not going to lie, them having a final mixes doesn't really piss me off but makes me wonder why :/

When it comes to things like this, other regions always get the short end of the stick. Apparently these FM's have details that all KH fans should know about, but he isn't letting it leave the country. I'm just curious to know why.
 

HeartSeams

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To be fair TAV never even told Sora their names! Terra didn't speak to him even. Of course he won't remember them.
A name is an even worse memory cue than a face. You're not helping your argument...

And the way Riku mentioned the story about Xehanort leaving, it didn't sound like people spoke of it like an urban legend. It said it as if it were a fact, as if everyone knew that a boy left the islands a long time ago and knew what his name was.
Riku begins by saying "I heard once...." that most definitely has a more "urban legend" feel to it than a "fact" feel. And if everyone knew his name, why wouldn't Riku say his name then? I don't see it, this isn't a good enough example. MX is obviously very old compared to Riku, so, it -would- be more of an urban legend than a fact thing.

And HeartSeams, think of it this way. Riku is OBSESSED with leaving the islands. So one day he is whining about how he wants to leave the islands. His parents tell him the story of a boy who did. Naturally like any little kid, Riku starts pestering them about who he was and how he did it, and eventually they tell him the boy's name, yet explain that nobody knows how he left.
And yet, he doesn't seem to know the kid's name, as he only refers to him as, just that, "a kid"/"a boy".
i don't see it. i see it more as a legend or tale that was passed down, but not one that specifically said "oh his name was ______ and he was _____"

And the reason Riku never remembered his name is because Xehanort is NOT his name.
Again, this isn't good enough. I'm not denying that there is a possibility that Xehanort isn't his name, I just don't see this as being evidence toward that, or you think that, just because someone has said Xehanort's name and Riku didn't go "OH I REMEMBER!" that it means Xehanort had a fake name. As I said, this was years ago, for one thing, it was probably told to him like a nameless legend, and there's also the fact that names aren't as good of memory cues as faces anyway.
 

chasespicer056

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A name is an even worse memory cue than a face. You're not helping your argument...


Riku begins by saying "I heard once...." that most definitely has a more "urban legend" feel to it than a "fact" feel. And if everyone knew his name, why wouldn't Riku say his name then? I don't see it, this isn't a good enough example. MX is obviously very old compared to Riku, so, it -would- be more of an urban legend than a fact thing.


And yet, he doesn't seem to know the kid's name, as he only refers to him as, just that, "a kid"/"a boy".
i don't see it. i see it more as a legend or tale that was passed down, but not one that specifically said "oh his name was ______ and he was _____"


Again, this isn't good enough. I'm not denying that there is a possibility that Xehanort isn't his name, I just don't see this as being evidence toward that, or you think that, just because someone has said Xehanort's name and Riku didn't go "OH I REMEMBER!" that it means Xehanort had a fake name. As I said, this was years ago, for one thing, it was probably told to him like a nameless legend, and there's also the fact that names aren't as good of memory cues as faces anyway.

Very good points. I see where you're coming from. The only detail we need to know to solve this is if Riku did in fact know his name back then and did in fact know it at the time of KH2.

But considering this boss's name is in fact "No Heart", I think it may be a hint that soon there'll be more evidence of his name being something else.

Ultimately it doesn't affect the plot. I just think it's repetitive of Ansem not really being his name back in KH2, and when I think of how new fans to the series will react, I imagine this line of thought:


[I]So Xemnas is the Nobody of a guy who called himself Ansem but was really named Xehanort, and Xehanort was actually the result of a person named Master Xehanort possessing a man named Terra's body, but Master Xehanort's real name was _______ and changed his name because _______.[/I]


When you look at it that way, it sounds ridiculous for newcomer fans.
 

HeartSeams

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But considering this boss's name is in fact "No Heart"
Which is still questionable... Rough translations of a blog post aren't exactly conclusive.

I think it may be a hint that soon there'll be more evidence of his name being something else
Or it could mean absolutely nothing since it's just a Mirage Arena fight.
 

skyfoxx

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BEST... RESPONSES... EVER.

I'm not going to lie, them having a final mixes doesn't really piss me off but makes me wonder why :/

When it comes to things like this, other regions always get the short end of the stick. Apparently these FM's have details that all KH fans should know about, but he isn't letting it leave the country. I'm just curious to know why.

So Square Enix can get more money.

And to be fair... when I think about it, if a FM was ever to reach outside shores from Japan, it may not sell well. Because most people won't bother paying for it when they'll think "Oh, it's just the same game with a few extras, why pay that much?" (which to be honest, is pretty true) If it came from a popular game like Halo or whatever, it'd work *cough*halo odst*cough* but with KH, I don't think it would sell much outside. Don't get me wrong, there are many people who WOULD buy a FM... but not that many as would in Japan.

To be honest I really don't care anymore. Everyone already knew a FM was coming years before so why complain? FM are pretty much guaranteed to happen so just live with it.

It's actually more like they forgot. I'm not saying the memories disappeared, but, just saying the names wouldn't cause them to remember instantaneously. in fact, when Sora sees TAV in Re:Coded all he's certain is that it "feels like he's met them before". he doesn't remember the specific event which kind of proves my point.

And you're also assuming the legend of "the kid who left" even has a name. Perhaps the legend is just like this "a long time ago, there was a boy who left". Which means, his name was never actually associated with it to begin with. And when you think about it, do urban legends even really have names tied to them? Not really. It's always in generics. "A boy left" or "This girl was murdered". It isn't "A boy named Xehanort left".

Sorry, but, this isn't really that solid of evidence for the "MX has a fake name" theory.

It'd have to agree. The whole "a boy left a long time ago" seems a lot more like an urban legend.
 
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chasespicer056

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Which is still questionable... Rough translations of a blog post aren't exactly conclusive.


Or it could mean absolutely nothing since it's just a Mirage Arena fight.

This is true actually.

For all we know the boss's name might simply be "Heartless", though that would raise questions...

And yeah, chances are the Mirage Arena bosses aren't even canon.



Still, the concept of him changing his name is interesting to say the least.
 

Pratiko

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I can't believe I read all 135 replies. Was fun. Lol'd twice.

Lol'd first when someone said that MX's name may not be his true name, then everyone theorizes and start discussing over minor details, like how Riku could have known his name through his parents. Nice imagination there.

Then lol'd when people defended BbS's production team over having "little" time.
Have you guys finished BbS? Have you seen the amount of people shown in the credits that worked in this game? For real?
They had time. But the producer had greed. And Final Mixes/Internationalizations are a marketing strategy that SE has pulled off since FFX, as far as I'm aware. "I believe Nomura". Oh, innocence.
 

Kira Yoshikage

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Re: New info of BBS (Not sure)

Well, if I remember right Nomura once hinted these "sentiments" may have a deeper meaning...ah, screw it...it's typical Nomura, if he wants to, he can give everything a deeper meaning, even that boiled egg Eraqus made before holding the MoM exam of which no one knows yet...

It's the Boiled Egg of Mastery, eating it is the final step to becoming a Master, at which point you are also told the recipe. That's actually the big secret Aqua was told, the whole sealing up the world thing is common knowledge. She was actually remembering two different talks with Eraqus in the CO cut-scene she was hungry.
 

Zak1403

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And to be fair... when I think about it, if a FM was ever to reach outside shores from Japan, it may not sell well. Because most people won't bother paying for it when they'll think "Oh, it's just the same game with a few extras, why pay that much?" (which to be honest, is pretty true) If it came from a popular game like Halo or whatever, it'd work *cough*halo odst*cough* but with KH, I don't think it would sell much outside. Don't get me wrong, there are many people who WOULD buy a FM... but not that many as would in Japan.

That's like saying why buy a HD Kingdom Hearts collectors pack when all your getting is HD. It would still be the same story just for a different console and with the added feature of HD. If they were to add Final Mix content into sure everybody would buy it but it would still sell well without extra content purely for the fact of HD. Now the thing I don't understand is if they want their fans to keep up with the story and continue to buy their games why do they put important plot points in the FM's when they have no plan to release it outside of Japan. They could sell the BBS secret episode as DLC and make lots of money. The thing they don't understand is by trying to make more money by re-selling the game they actually lose a hell of alot more through illegal downloads because fans outside of Japan want to experience the extra content which in turn makes Square Enix lose trust in fans and not put their games on the playstation network out of fear of loseing money when the don't realize the actually lose more by not doing it. And that's what pisses the fans off as they can't get the games they want.

Ah I think I'm done, I feel better now that I got that out.
 
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