• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

New Picture Of Braig.



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

OmniChaos

The Smiling Man
Staff member
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
5,652
Awards
12
Location
Panopticon
In an entire world populace, AtW could not find someone suitable or at least potentially suitable for the position of a guard aside from his own apprentices?

Who knows? Maybe not.
Might not have been up to his standards.


"I have transcended to an existence of only the heart. I should have come back as a Heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation.
My body has surely perished. However, I am different from the other Heartless, keeping the memories of before, and I have not taken on the form of a Heartless. "

Okay?
I still fail to see how this would be around the same time that Maleficent comes in.
All he said is that he should have come back as a Heartless, but that he didn't. He came back as what XH is most likely: a free-floating heart.


Also, why does it follow that Ansem's banishment must have happened before the Heartless invasion?

Notice how Ansem does not write anything about Radiant Garden being taken over by Heartless in the SARs before he wrote anything about being banished?

No one ever mentions that Maleficent was behind the Heartless invasion much at all.

Leon said:

Leon said:
We lost our world, thanks to her.

Right before Cid says:

Cid said:
One day, a swarm of Heartless took over our world!

They all state simply that the Heartless overtook the world. In SAR 3, Ansem states "Chaos affect not only this world, but many other worlds besides." which could relate to this event.

Chaos could mean several things, including the events of BBS.
Also, do you notice that this is also the report in which Ansem is banished?


Did Ansem see this happen? No. He simply assumed.

It sounds a little more than just an assumption. How Ansem worded it in SAR3, it sounds like he knew Xehanort passed through the door, just not why. He even then said that his "other five apprentices, believing it was for the sake of research, stared deep into the darkness and were pulled into it."

Ansem calls himself a fool later, talking of how much of what he had thought was false.

I really don't feel like scouring through reports and scenes, so do you mind pointing out exactly when this was?

Taking Ansem's words as fact is not something which can really be done, as much of what he discusses in those secret reports were not directly seen by him.

I'd take Ansem's words as fact over a guess...

Again, why did this have to occur before the invasion?

Neither Ansem, Xehanort, or XH ever wrote about the takeover happening.
 
Last edited:

Mr. Wilhelm

Also Sprach Zarathustra
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
3,893
Age
34
Location
Valhalla
Website
www.animus-sorrow.org
I wanted to say on the guard/apprentice topic, that maybe they're not all yet apprentice. They study, but their job is guard. So either because they study Ansem still see them as apprentice, or they'll become official apprentice before Xehanort's arrival.
 

AllEndsWith-

New member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
309
Location
...In America
This is incredible news! In my opinion, Braig looks pretty sweet without the scars and eye patch (but it feels so awkward). He also looks a lot younger!

This makes me wonder...

How old would you think Ienzo is at this time? Maybe Eleaus, Dilan, and Braig weren't Ansem the Wise's apprentices yet, while Even was...I don't know...

I just can't help but feel that Ienzo will be a little younger as well...
Everyone knows scars and eye patches make you look 10 years older!

Anyway, since this does take place a while back, it does look like the younger iterations of the founding members will be slightly modified. And my assuming is quite the same for the other members, if they make an apperence in the game, that is.
 

Raz

i'm nobody
Staff member
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
9,223
Awards
8
Age
31
Location
Midwest
Braig is one slice of man. Which is weird because Xigbar is gross looking.
 

Igshar

?The Jack of all Trades?
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,884
Awards
1
Location
Fillory and further~
Okay?
I still fail to see how this would be around the same time that Maleficent comes in.
All he said is that he should have come back as a Heartless, but that he didn't. He came back as what XH is most likely: a free-floating heart.
Ansem Report 2:
" They are born from those who've lost their hearts, and thrive on hearts seized from others. The hearts taken by the Heartless become Heartless themselves.
Though I lack proof, I am confident in this hypothesis."

Thus, he lost his Heart and his Heart should have become a Heartless by his logic. The means by which the loss of Heart occurs are not clear, but it does not immediately mean that he stepped through a door. It's entirely possible that these creatures he had been studying turned on him, triggering the Heartless invasion. I'm not saying it's definitely how it happened, just that it is a possibility.

Notice how Ansem does not write anything about Radiant Garden being taken over by Heartless in the SARs before he wrote anything about being banished?
Chaos could mean several things, including the events of BBS.
Also, do you notice that this is also the report in which Ansem is banished?
Again, the chaos line. Judging from how he interacts with Xehanort and his ignorance of the Keyblade when Mickey arrives ("A tiny king named Mickey came wielding a legendary key — the infamous "Keyblade," said to bring both chaos and prosperity to the world.") and that this happened after Xehanort's arrival, I think it's safe to assume Ansem had not met Terra, Aqua, nor Ventus during the events of Birth by Sleep. This being said, the only "chaos" he could be referring to is the Heartless.

Leon said:
Right before Cid says:
Leon could well be relating the Heartless attack to Maleficent after seeing that she controls the Heartless later. Again, just because the Heartless took over the world does not mean that Maleficent followed hard upon.

It sounds a little more than just an assumption. How Ansem worded it in SAR3, it sounds like he knew Xehanort passed through the door, just not why. He even then said that his "other five apprentices, believing it was for the sake of research, stared deep into the darkness and were pulled into it."
"Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm?"
He poses it as a question. Granted, it can be debated what he is questioning here, whether it be the reason for his passing through or that he passed through at all, but that would be talking semantics over a translation. Nothing at all says that Ansem witnessed this event, as he found out that they were "no longer human" after they had returned from the Realm of In-Between, which, as I said before, would have had to be quite a while AFTER they had become Heartless/Nobody, lest Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas would have met one another.

I really don't feel like scouring through reports and scenes, so do you mind pointing out exactly when this was?
YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 2 Cutscene- Farewell, Ansem the Wise
Right there. He says he spent years studying Hearts and learned nothing, meaning many of his conclusions were likely false.

Neither Ansem, Xehanort, or XH ever wrote about the takeover happening.
This could also be (disregarding the chaos line) due to the fact they all remained in the castle for much of it, likely rarely leaving it for anything at all. Xehanort and his Heartless likely wouldn't care much if it happened, anyway, what with the nature of their experiments within the castle. Ansem, being in the midst of investigating Xehanort and his cohorts, would likely not have left his castle at all, either, and so would likely not have known of the invasion outside.


Just to say, I'm not exactly arguing that the events in question had to have been over a course of more than a year, just that it is entirely possible that they could have lasted longer. It's likely it was just a year, but possible it was longer.

Everyone knows scars and eye patches make you look 10 years older!

Anyway, since this does take place a while back, it does look like the younger iterations of the founding members will be slightly modified. And my assuming is quite the same for the other members, if they make an apperence in the game, that is.
Except, Nobodies don't age, so any aging would have to have been done before the transformation.
 

Faruway

I ran so far away~~~♫
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
2,245
Location
Singapore
Website
www.youtube.com
I know it's kinda small, but can anyone translate what Braig is saying in that screen?

I believe he is saying something about the Keyblade because that word is in katakana in that pic and oddly enough, Braig ends his sentence with 'Hanashi' or 'As If' just like his Nobody, Xigbar.

Dilan and Aeleus guarded the doors to Castle Hollow Bastion, so does that mean Braig's duty could possibly be a personal bodyguard to Ansem The Wise?
 
A

Audo

Guest
Also, has it ever even been said how the lot of them lost their Hearts?
They stepped through the Door to the World's Heart and ceases to be human.

Kairi is the same age as Sora, and the scene in the trailer when Terra is watching Sora and Riku play together, Sora seems to be 6-8 years old.
Uh, no, Sora is four there...

How you make it seem, Maleficent invaded Radiant Garden and took it over overnight. I highly doubt this would happen, especially if its the world from which many Final Fantasy characters hail. Cloud, Cid, Squall, Aerith, Sephiroth, Tifa, etc, etc all were there. You're saying they'd just stand there and let the Heartless run rampant? Yeah, Squall fled due to feeling powerless to stop them, but it doesn't mean they didn't try and, subsequently, slow down the attack. Without Keyblades, they couldn't stop the attack, but they could have slowed it.
Uh, yes, it did happen in practically a day, and yes, they didnt try and slow down the attack. They left as soon as they could, which is why Cloud got left behind amidst the chaos (as stated by Nomura, in the Ultimania)

WHIP OUT A TIMELINE!
Spoiler Spoiler Show


The Nobodies then returned back to RG, banished Ansem and took over RG. Xemnas made the Chamber of Repose in the back of the lab, and reinstalled the MCP in Ansem's Computer. Heartless production went rampant. Heartless filled the world. After a period of time, they left for TWTNW, and Maleficent took over the castle.
 

Igshar

?The Jack of all Trades?
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,884
Awards
1
Location
Fillory and further~
They stepped through the Door to the World's Heart and ceases to be human.
The only time this is stated is by a secondary source which is possibly false.


Uh, yes, it did happen in practically a day, and yes, they didnt try and slow down the attack. They left as soon as they could, which is why Cloud got left behind amidst the chaos (as stated by Nomura, in the Ultimania)
That doesn't change the fact that this event did not necessarily have to happen after everything with Xehanort and the apprentices.

WHIP OUT A TIMELINE!
Spoiler Spoiler Show


The Nobodies then returned back to RG, banished Ansem and took over RG. Xemnas made the Chamber of Repose in the back of the lab, and reinstalled the MCP in Ansem's Computer. Heartless production went rampant. Heartless filled the world. After a period of time, they left for TWTNW, and Maleficent took over the castle.
The time line is just the reports. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever backing up that point where you stated it was nine years before Kingdom Hearts. It could potentially have been earlier when the Heartless overtook the world. The only thing which states nine years is when the Radiant Garden natives talk of the Heartless invasion nine years before Kingdom Hearts I. The reports do not indicate a time frame nor do they indicate how long before Kingdom Hearts I they end up.

To me it is unbelievable that such a vast amount of research and conflict could be accomplished in such a short time-frame. I also find it so hard to believe that, given the research managed to be completed in one year, the Organization and Xehanort's Heartless had been floating around to different worlds for nine years and they barely accomplished anything at all. If Xehanort could have completed so many experiments and so much research in one year, how does it take his Heartless nine years to collect three Princesses of Heart, especially when those three may have been captured by Maleficent and NOT him? What the hell was XH doing for nine years that he failed to take even one step closer to his eventual goal? I mean come on.

If that's seriously what happens (1 year of fucktons of insane research and experimentation followed by nine years where everyone has their thumbs in their rears), this series is incredibly nonsensical.
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
The only time this is stated is by a secondary source which is possibly false.



That doesn't change the fact that this event did not necessarily have to happen after everything with Xehanort and the apprentices.


The time line is just the reports. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever backing up that point where you stated it was nine years before Kingdom Hearts. It could potentially have been earlier when the Heartless overtook the world. The only thing which states nine years is when the Radiant Garden natives talk of the Heartless invasion nine years before Kingdom Hearts I. The reports do not indicate a time frame nor do they indicate how long before Kingdom Hearts I they end up.

To me it is unbelievable that such a vast amount of research and conflict could be accomplished in such a short time-frame. I also find it so hard to believe that, given the research managed to be completed in one year, the Organization and Xehanort's Heartless had been floating around to different worlds for nine years and they barely accomplished anything at all. If Xehanort could have completed so many experiments and so much research in one year, how does it take his Heartless nine years to collect three Princesses of Heart, especially when those three may have been captured by Maleficent and NOT him? What the hell was XH doing for nine years that he failed to take even one step closer to his eventual goal? I mean come on.

If that's seriously what happens (1 year of fucktons of insane research and experimentation followed by nine years where everyone has their thumbs in their rears), this series is incredibly nonsensical.

Man, Igshar have noticed you're the only arguing this. It is obvious and Audo even proved it with the timeline that you're wrong, just admit it and move on, I mean seriously. No believes what you're trying to say because you are complicated the time line way too much.
 

OmniChaos

The Smiling Man
Staff member
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
5,652
Awards
12
Location
Panopticon
The means by which the loss of Heart occurs are not clear, but it does not immediately mean that he stepped through a door. It's entirely possible that these creatures he had been studying turned on him, triggering the Heartless invasion. I'm not saying it's definitely how it happened, just that it is a possibility.

Xehanort planned on becoming a Heartless. Sure, that doesn't prove that Xehanort didn't get his heart taken, but it does prove that he was planning to do it.
Also, according to Xaldin's Secret Report, they became Nobodies on purpose.


Again, the chaos line. Judging from how he interacts with Xehanort and his ignorance of the Keyblade when Mickey arrives ("A tiny king named Mickey came wielding a legendary key — the infamous "Keyblade," said to bring both chaos and prosperity to the world.") and that this happened after Xehanort's arrival, I think it's safe to assume Ansem had not met Terra, Aqua, nor Ventus during the events of Birth by Sleep. This being said, the only "chaos" he could be referring to is the Heartless.

The fact that Braig, Dilan, and Aeleus are acting as guards during BBS points to trouble in our perfect, little Radiant Garden. With Unversed being around, Ansem does not have to see VAT for him to realize that there is chaos in his world.
Also, notice that that report is the report in which Ansem was banished.


"Did Xehanort pass through that door in an attempt to contact that dark realm?"
He poses it as a question. Granted, it can be debated what he is questioning here, whether it be the reason for his passing through or that he passed through at all, but that would be talking semantics over a translation.

If Ansem was questioning if Xehanort had passed through the door, it would have been something more along the lines of: "Is it possible Xehanort passed through the door, perhaps in an attempt to contact that dark realm?"
Except it wasn't. The way Ansem worded it, what was being question was the reason why he passed through the door, not the act of passing through the door.


Nothing at all says that Ansem witnessed this event

Maybe not, but he evidently had enough to say that this is what happened.

as he found out that they were "no longer human" after they had returned from the Realm of In-Between, which, as I said before, would have had to be quite a while AFTER they had become Heartless/Nobody, lest Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas would have met one another.

XH only wrote two reports, one being after he came into existence (probably right after) and one that does not necessarily have to have been written within the time frame, as nothing exactly tags it into the time frame.
It doesn't have to have been "quite a while" afterwards, since XH could have easily left before Xemnas returned, that the two didn't encounter each other at RG, or that they did and nothing happened.


YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 2 Cutscene- Farewell, Ansem the Wise
Right there. He says he spent years studying Hearts and learned nothing, meaning many of his conclusions were likely false.

Yes, just because he doesn't know as much as he thought he did about hearts, automatically make anything and everything he says wrong. =|
All this proves is that hearts are "incalculable" and cannot be easily controlled.


This could also be (disregarding the chaos line) due to the fact they all remained in the castle for much of it, likely rarely leaving it for anything at all.

And I'm sure they all sat there, happily listening to the screams echoing like a beautiful symphony from outside.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top