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Nomura on KHX Back Cover & Unchained X, Big Hero 6 in Kingdom Hearts 3



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Except... Keyblades were made to fight over the X-Blade and the Light? And if he made the Keyblades... then he was making them to encourage people to fight him for the X-Blade?

Thus my confusion and suspicion. He's either a hugely morally grey character or what he made was something between Xblade & Keyblade, prototype maybe. Or he could've had the Xblade....*shrugs*
 

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It could, it absolutely could, but Xehanort's Keyblade is adorned with the symbol of the goat with all its devilish and recusant implications being perfect for the outlier apprentice.

Moreover, Xehanort doesn't say that his Keyblade is the first forged, just the most ancient one in existence. That could mean the same thing, but in theory, the other Keyblades of that era could be shattered and gone. I find this likely, given the lifeless, vacant, and broken nature of the Keyblades at the Keyblade Graveyard.
 

Audo

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It could, it absolutely could, but Xehanort's Keyblade is adorned with the symbol of the goat with all its devilish and recusant implications being perfect for the outlier apprentice.
Or for the Master, who is above them alllll.
Perhaps he passed down this Keyblade to the apprentice.

Consolation prize for not getting the Book lol.

(i should probably stop commenting in this thread because i actually don't care about theorizing about this keyblade lol)
 

deoxysphobia

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I have yet to play any KHX games, or read any theories other than what's been in this thread of comments, but...
What if "eyes that see into the future" refers to the ability to time travel?
Like Xehanort and company do in KHDDD?
What if we've already *seen* MoM in the cutscene in TWTNW with all the hooded figures gathering?
What if the black-coated figure mentioned having appeared in KHX was one of Xehanort's incarnations?
What if Xehanort IS MoM?
Who says the Master of Masters was in any way benevolent? Or maybe he was, at one time, a time long ago...
 

Nazo

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What if "eyes that see into the future" refers to the ability to time travel?

Well, I mean, that would kind of be strange to refer to time travel in such a fashion. Why not just say that he could travel through time? "Eyes that could see into the future" paints more of a picture of a man who has direct visions of what the future holds.
 

Sephiroth0812

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MoM has five apprentices, the leaders of the Unions, the five Foretellers, Anguis, Leopardos, Unicornis, Ursus, Vulpeus(who now know as Ava) That was her name, right. MoM gives five of them a tome, but not to the sixth one.
AtW has five apprentices, Even, Ienzo, Dilan, Aeleus and Braig.

I wonder if you could see similarities between them? This just me making an assumption based on their body structure and a whim. Ursus is the bear, a strong looking fellow. Maybe this is similarity to Aeleus, since he is big and strong looking. The other strong looking Foreteller, Unicornis, could be parallel to Dilan also having a strong body structure. This leaves Anguis, Leopardos and Vulpeus. And then we have Ienzo, Even and Braig. Braig is the traitor one, but we have now idea which Foreteller that it is. Ienzo when he was know as Zexion, was he master of illusions and shadowy tactician. Even as Vexen(or maybe he was this way also before turning into a Nobody) a chilling scientist, having fascination towards experiments and also a rather curious person. Snake and a leopard... Hmm...
When comparing the Foretellers and Ansem's original apprentices though one has to be a lot more creative, not only because two of the Foretellers are female while Ansem's Apprentices are all guys, but also because personality-wise someone such as Ava seems to not really be among them.
We also don't know anything about the personalities of the other Foretellers, only that they are, according to Ava, harder to approach than herself.
The animal motifs could work for them though:
A bear is strong and rather silent, fitting for Aeleus.
An unicorn is commonly regarded as a creature of purity and grace, but in the legends of the middle ages it is also decribed as extremely wild and untamable, just like the Wind Dilan/Xaldin commands. Furthermore, an unicorn has a long horn which can represent Dilan's spear.
foxes are known for cunning and trickery, but also for being mischievous and often having magical powers that can be used for either wonder or ruin depending on the user. Probably the most powerful mythogical fox is the Jiuweihu of chinese folklore, more commonly known as the Nine-tailed fox spirit in the west which can be both good or evil depending on the story in question.
These traits would fit Braig, Even and Ienzo to different degrees, which is why it is difficult to assign the fox directly.
Leopards are known to be very fast, agile and versatile, yet also elusive and stealthy as well as being reluctant to fight if not absolutely necessary, which thematically fits both Even and Ienzo to some degree.
The snake has several motifs in mythology, ranging from the most known symbolism of clever scheming, tempation and sublety, it can also stand for immortality, fertility, wisdom, Guardianship, vengefulness and vindictiveness. Different combinations of these traits would fit Braig, Even and Ienzo all the same so Unicornis and Ursus are really the only Foretellers that can be definitely designated to one of the apprentices in theory for sure right now.

Vulpeus (the fox) could be either Braig, Even or Ienzo.
Leopardus could be either Even or Ienzo.
Anguis could again be all three of the remaining ones.

Like Sephiroth said, then the sixth came along and maybe in the MoM case that person is the black coat dude. And in AtW`s case of course that is Xehanort. Then among AtW apprentices there is person who conspires with the sixth apprentice, Braig, and now there are talks that there is a traitor among the Foretellers, presumably teaming up with the black coated guy.

Man, I can just see Nomura trollishly smiling when he was creating this. :D I really like when he makes stuff like this.
That's the primary gist of this theory. If it is any good however depends on how the whole issue is handled in-universe.

Crafting such parallels is definitely a thing Nomura likes to pull as it would be not the first time for something like that to happen.

Some notes:
1: Ansem wasn't really a King, he was referred to as a Lord. I make this distinction because I've almost only ever see people call him a King when trying to make Kairi his daughter to explain her being an actual princess.

2: I'm not sure if you know about the Rebirth theory, but it's no denying that the Foretellers actually share body frames ( that we can tell in their 2d form) and color schemes with Terra, Ventus, Aqua, Kairi and Riku.

3: The seeing eye thing is probably embodied in the blue eye insignia that's on the foretellers Keyblades as well as Xehanort's (which, let's stop kidding ourselves, we all know that Keyblade belongs to the Master of Master's dejected apprentice). And it makes appearances on all Xehanort-related weapons. I think I've seen that eye being referred to as a demon eye before

1. He is credited as the ruler of Radiant Garden though and a King is always also a Lord if he's true royalty/nobility. Sure, someone can be an Earl, a Count or a Duke and still rule over a city state, but I'd say that is nitpicking titles. Fanon theories with no real substance though as Kairi is never confirmed to be royalty at all nor is there any hint that she is somehow directly related to Ansem.

2. And yet the Rebirth theory is only that, a theory. It doesn't have any more merit than the possible other parallels or connections the Foretellers might have nor does it invalidate them.

3. Agreed on the eye, but not on the owner of the Goat-blade. We don't know if the sixth Apprentice is the one who holds it in the past or if he forged it. The Master of Masters is also a valid candidate for that role.

Or for the Master, who is above them alllll.
Perhaps he passed down this Keyblade to the apprentice.

Consolation prize for not getting the Book lol.

(i should probably stop commenting in this thread because i actually don't care about theorizing about this keyblade lol)

So the Master of Masters did with the Sixth the same that Yen Sid did with Mickey?
Interesting thought.

Well, I mean, that would kind of be strange to refer to time travel in such a fashion. Why not just say that he could travel through time? "Eyes that could see into the future" paints more of a picture of a man who has direct visions of what the future holds.

It would also not really work that way as people who time travel not only forget everything they experience during the time travel, they can also only travel to a period where a version of them already exists.
 

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Or his Keyblade is Xehanort's Keyblade...

It could, it absolutely could, but Xehanort's Keyblade is adorned with the symbol of the goat with all its devilish and recusant implications being perfect for the outlier apprentice.

Moreover, Xehanort doesn't say that his Keyblade is the first forged, just the most ancient one in existence. That could mean the same thing, but in theory, the other Keyblades of that era could be shattered and gone. I find this likely, given the lifeless, vacant, and broken nature of the Keyblades at the Keyblade Graveyard.

Or for the Master, who is above them alllll.
Perhaps he passed down this Keyblade to the apprentice.

Consolation prize for not getting the Book lol.

(i should probably stop commenting in this thread because i actually don't care about theorizing about this keyblade lol)

Between keyblade transformation, keychains and how Terra's and Aquas changed shape after being abandoned I think the keyblade being altered to its devilish look after the 6th received isn't anywhere out of question.

The 6th getting it as consolation would be funny lol.

When ya look at it there's surprisingly few options. It's the oldest known keyblade but the Foretellers had have some just as old or older if the AtW parallel is true. Then the master himself had to have something as well.
Pretty much leaves you with the keyblade was originally the masters or whatever the master had vanished with him. (same for the Foretellers and their own blades)

If they really were forged for bad ends then that makes the master suspicious. But for all we know goat-blade is the prototype the Foretellers used to make their own spawning the war through the traitors manipulation.
 

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When comparing the Foretellers and Ansem's original apprentices though one has to be a lot more creative, not only because two of the Foretellers are female while Ansem's Apprentices are all guys, but also because personality-wise someone such as Ava seems to not really be among them.
We also don't know anything about the personalities of the other Foretellers, only that they are, according to Ava, harder to approach than herself.
The animal motifs could work for them though:

Oh, I think I was aiming for the animal comparison at first, but then for some reason started to talk about body structure and etc... It was really late and I was also tired when I started to write it yesterday, so the comparison was not as imaginative as I was hoping it to be. Shows that I still have to hone my theory crafting skills and I am nowhere near to the level you guys possess. You should have seen my face when I first time bumped into one the longer essay like posts in here. I had thought that my knowledge about KH was pretty good, but after reading that, I kinda felt like Aristotle and accepted the fact, that the path to wisdom begins when you acknowledge the fact that you know nothing. :)

Oh man, the animal comparison opens up a lot of possible parallels.
 

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I hope we can fight MoM as a Test and optain his keyblade with a awesome OP transformation
 

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but after reading that, I kinda felt like Aristotle and accepted the fact, that the path to wisdom begins when you acknowledge the fact that you know nothing. :)
This is completely unrelated, but you're thinking of Socrates, not Aristotle. Aristotle was the guy who came up with a lot of BS ideas about physics, which everyone accepted unconditionally for a very long time. In fact, his "knowledge" impeded actual scientific progress for quite a long time. :p
 

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This is completely unrelated, but you're thinking of Socrates, not Aristotle. Aristotle was the guy who came up with a lot of BS ideas about physics, which everyone accepted unconditionally for a very long time. In fact, his "knowledge" impeded actual scientific progress for quite a long time. :p

Shoot I mixed them. Thanks for the correction BlackOsprey! :)
 

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Oh, I think I was aiming for the animal comparison at first, but then for some reason started to talk about body structure and etc... It was really late and I was also tired when I started to write it yesterday, so the comparison was not as imaginative as I was hoping it to be. Shows that I still have to hone my theory crafting skills and I am nowhere near to the level you guys possess. You should have seen my face when I first time bumped into one the longer essay like posts in here. I had thought that my knowledge about KH was pretty good, but after reading that, I kinda felt like Aristotle and accepted the fact, that the path to wisdom begins when you acknowledge the fact that you know nothing. :)

Oh man, the animal comparison opens up a lot of possible parallels.

Body structure can be misleading, not only because several people can have a similar body structure, but also because the Foretellers (as well as Ephemera) are only shown in 2D chibi-style versions to far.
If fatigue plays into it the best theorist can screw up, lol.
The fact that you already made the connection between Ansem the Wise & his cronies and the Grand Master + Foretellers shows that you have talent/skill for it though. ^__^

Geez, I'm actually not too fond at least of my own essay-long posts as when formulating my thoughts I tend to get carried away and the post becomes much longer than I originally intended...<__<

Yep, the animal comparison can be fitted to Ansem's apprentices somewhat as well as to other characters, so I'd say it has around the same merit and possibility that the rebirth-theory may have.

That being said, as good as the rebirth-theory is I somewhat get the vibe that some people around here (and possibly elsewhere in the net too) forget that it is actually just a theory and treat it as already very much factual information when it isn't.
If one would ask my personal opinion on it, I have to say that I personally hope the rebirth-theory is not correct as the story certainly does not need yet another set of clones/derivatives of several of the major characters in the KH series. Except Aqua and Terra, each one of them already has at least one derivative character design-wise.
 

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Yay, I have hope! :D
Oh, I do quite enjoy your longer posts. They make me think and take perspectives on the series that I haven`t considered before. Almost everybody here do that to me, and I think it`s really cool.
 

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Sephiroth0812 said:
If one would ask my personal opinion on it, I have to say that I personally hope the rebirth-theory is not correct as the story certainly does not need yet another set of clones/derivatives of several of the major characters in the KH series. Except Aqua and Terra, each one of them already has at least one derivative character design-wise.
I agree wholeheartedly. As good as a grass theory is I think the overall lack of originality in favor of cloning for cast needs to stop. Nomura being so shocked about Aquas own popularity despite not having or being a clone says volumes about his mindset on the matter....
 

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I agree wholeheartedly. As good as a grass theory is I think the overall lack of originality in favor of cloning for cast needs to stop. Nomura being so shocked about Aquas own popularity despite not having or being a clone says volumes about his mindset on the matter....

Nomura is shocked about Aqua's popularity? Ghee, after Kairi's lackluster character development, it was refreshing to see a versatile female Keyblade wielder who was likable at the time of Birth By Sleep's release.
 
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