Plot holes of Days?

[Audo]

i cant remember the room name... but the one where there are the thirteen stones... one for each of the members... roxas symbol has the oathkeeper and oblivion crossed, but the organization never saw him use either of those.. and he could only single weild for all they knew... so why was his symbol 2 non-kingdom key keyblades??? i think that is a real plot hole

The panels magically update accordingly to his weapon changes.

 

[ven-roxas21]

The panels magically update accordingly to his weapon changes.

lol... or mabey cause they had 2 keyblade weilders, but only one keyblade nobody... but why oathkeeper/oblivion

 

[_EX]

Those are hardly even plot holes. Jack couldve been there after days but before Sora went there. Same thing with meeting Meg, or maybe she just wasnt interested with the games. She was dragged into kh2 unwillingly but she didnt have go to it in days.

 

[Memory Master]

Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It easily could have happened in one of the periods where there is a huge jump in Days and we wouldn't know. It isn't necessarily a plot hole, it just wasn't shown.


Lack of mention =/= plot hole.


Hm. Maybe I should make this clear. The novels are something called secondary canon, while the games and Nomura Interviews are primary canon. In the event that there is a contradiction between the two, the primary canon wins.

It isn't a true plot hole, because the novels aren't on the same level of canon as the games.

I know this is probably a bad example since not many people watch LOST but... here it goes. For LOST, the primary canon is the show. The secondary canon is things like videos at Comic Con. More often than not, the stuff at Comic Con is canon and is worked into the show, but sometimes they can't get that content into the actual show (an example would be the Pierre Chang video Daniel filmed). In that event, the primary canon wins in terms of the mythology of the show. Where as the secondary canon is used more as a way to promote the show. Much like the novels are a way to promote the games.

The fact is, the novels aren't written by Nomura. What happens is an author goes to Nomura and says they want to write __________ storyline. Nomura then okays it, or tells them to change it or whatever. It's loosely canon, but since it is another medium writing it, they tend to throw in scenes and dialogue that are only there for "fun" and what not. It's an iffy subject, but really, the only canon you can have 100% faith in is the primary canon, not the secondary.

too long. v.v

So wait, there are different levels of canon now? I thought that canon was canon, game or novel either one.

Well this is certainly a new by me, I had no idea of this secondary and primary canon stuff. I was also under the impression that Nomura himself wrote the novels.

Those are hardly even plot holes. Jack couldve been there after days but before Sora went there. Same thing with meeting Meg, or maybe she just wasnt interested with the games. She was dragged into kh2 unwillingly but she didnt have go to it in days.

Well of course that is possible, but I would like to hear Nomura tell us this in an interview or something to atleast confirm it.

It just would have made Days better to include this stuff, IMO.

It just seems confusing and cheap to me, but I guess I can live with it.

As long as they don't cut out important stuff about the past in BBS, I will be fine.

 

[Audo]

So wait, there are different levels of canon now? I thought that canon was canon, game or novel either one.

There's always been different levels of canon.

Well this is certainly a new by me, I had no idea of this secondary and primary canon stuff. I was also under the impression that Nomura himself wrote the novels.

Uh... no.
Though, the main scenario writer of Days (excluding Nomura) wrote the novels.

As long as they don't cut out important stuff about the past in BBS, I will be fine.

They will.

 

[Memory Master]

There's always been different levels of canon.


Uh... no.
Though, the main scenario writer of Days (excluding Nomura) wrote the novels.


They will.

I was unaware of different levels of canon, I mean I thought that either they were canon or not. Ah well I guess ya learn something new everyday.

So the main scenario writer of days wrote the novels? I wonder why he didn't include Axel and Roxas' Hollow Bastion mission? Seems like he would want to include his own work.

I hope they don't exclude anything important. So far they haven't, they have included alot of important stuff about the past.

 

[Audo]

So the main scenario writer of days wrote the novels? I wonder why he didn't include Axel and Roxas' Hollow Bastion mission? Seems like he would want to include his own work.

She. She wrote some of the novels, I'm not sure if she wrote all of them or not. And what you're referring to wasn't even a novel, it was a short story included in Another Report, and it conflicts with Xion's existence, Roxas duel wielding, etc. among other things, so no wonder it wasnt included.

I hope they don't exclude anything important. So far they haven't, they have included alot of important stuff about the past.

Pfft, you do not know what they have or haven't included.

 

[shrekdog]

The panels magically update accordingly to his weapon changes.

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice


also yeah these aren't really plot holes, just conveniences and movie references

 

[Memory Master]

She. She wrote some of the novels, I'm not sure if she wrote all of them or not. And what you're referring to wasn't even a novel, it was a short story included in Another Report, and it conflicts with Xion's existence, Roxas duel wielding, etc. among other things, so no wonder it wasnt included.


Pfft, you do not know what they have or haven't included.

How does it contradict with Xion's existence and dual wielding? It may not mention Xion but that was probably because they didn't want to reveal her to the fans yet.

What I mean by important stuff they have included is the apprentices of Ansem the wise, Radient Gardens, the history of the keyblade and the keyblade war. And other stuff. Plus I said yet, meaning that they have included lots of important stuff already, but yet they could cut something important out, but we wont know for sure till the game is released.

 

[Audo]

How does it contradict with Xion's existence and dual wielding? It may not mention Xion but that was probably because they didn't want to reveal her to the fans yet.

Exactly my point. A meeting is called for all remaining members of the Organization and she is not there. That's a contradiction with what we know.
Pfft, more like she wasn't created then.

Dual wielding is a contradiction in that, during that story, Roxas has two keyblades, which we all now know doesn't happen until the very end of the game for very specific reasons.

 

[Fire's fan]

Not really much of plot holes, kinnda sad really......

 

[Memory Master]

Exactly my point. A meeting is called for all remaining members of the Organization and she is not there. That's a contradiction with what we know.
Pfft, more like she wasn't created then.

Dual wielding is a contradiction in that, during that story, Roxas has two keyblades, which we all now know doesn't happen until the very end of the game for very specific reasons.

Xion was missing at the time when that story takes place. The meeting took place when Axel returned from Castle Oblivion, according to days time line this meeting should have taken place on day 72 and on Day 72 Xion was still on a mission and had not returned because that is when she lost her keyblade.

So of course she would not have been at the meeting.

Now on the dual wielding issue, I thought it mentioned only one keyblade.

 

[Audo]

Xion was missing at the time when that story takes place. The meeting took place when Axel returned from Castle Oblivion, according to days time line this meeting should have taken place on day 72 and on Day 72 Xion was still on a mission and had not returned because that is when she lost her keyblade.

So of course she would not have been at the meeting.

Now on the dual wielding issue, I thought it mentioned only one keyblade.

Xion doesn't lose the ability to wield the Keyblade until Day 74. So no, still a contradiction.

Pretty sure it mentions both of them.

EDIT: Rechecked, you're right on the keyblade thing, though, the Xion thing still stands.

 

[Memory Master]

Xion doesn't lose the ability to wield the Keyblade until Day 74. So no, still a contradiction.

Pretty sure it mentions both of them.

Now wait just a minute, Xion was missing for a few days including day 72 and the reason why was because she lost her keyblade and couldn't complete her mission.

Axel and Roxas simply found her on Day 74 and that's when she informed them that she had lost her keyblade and that was why she hadn't returned. It doesn't mean she lost her keyblade on Day 74.

 

[Audo]

Now wait just a minute, Xion was missing for a few days including day 72 and the reason why was because she lost her keyblade and couldn't complete her mission.

Axel and Roxas simply found her on Day 74 and that's when she informed them that she had lost her keyblade and that was why she hadn't returned. It doesn't mean she lost her keyblade on Day 74.

According to the timeline, she didn't lose it until Day 74.

Also, in the short story, Roxas doesn't learn of Marluxia and the other's demise until Axel comes back, when really he learns about it long before Axel shows up.

 

[Memory Master]

According to the timeline, she didn't lose it until Day 74.

According to khinsider's time line.

But remember Roxas wanted Xion and Axel to eat ice cream with him and since Axel returned on Day 71 Roxas was looking for Xion but couldn't find her until Day 74 when Axel and Roxas were sent to find her and when they did she informed them she had lost her keyblade.

That doesn't mean she lost it on day 74, that's just when Axel and Roxas find out about it. Now since Xion had been missing since Day 71, it would make much more sence that she didn't return on Day 72 or 73 because she lost the ability to wield her keyblade on Day 71 which is why she couldn't defeat her target heartless and why she didn't return until she was found by Axel and Roxas.

 

[Audo]

According to khinsider's time line.

According to the timeline included in the Days Ultimania. >.>

But remember Roxas wanted Xion and Axel to eat ice cream with him and since Axel returned on Day 71 Roxas was looking for Xion but couldn't find her until Day 74 when Axel and Roxas were sent to find her and when they did she informed them she had lost her keyblade.

That doesn't mean she lost it on day 74, that's just when Axel and Roxas find out about it. Now since Xion had been missing since Day 71, it would make much more sence that she didn't return on Day 72 or 73 because she lost the ability to wield her keyblade on Day 71 which is why she couldn't defeat her target heartless and why she didn't return until she was found by Axel and Roxas.

No, she was gone for that long because she couldn't find the damn thing (it was invisible remember? this fact is even mentioned in the mission itself "No wonder Xion couldn't find it" etc.)

She lost the actual ability to wield the Keyblade on Day 74.

 

[Memory Master]

According to the timeline included in the Days Ultimania. >.>


No, she was gone for that long because she couldn't find the damn thing (it was invisible remember? this fact is even mentioned in the mission itself "No wonder Xion couldn't find it" etc.)

She lost the actual ability to wield the Keyblade on Day 74.

Still though it it doesn't cotradict anything. Xion was still on her mission on Day 72 and thus would not have been at the Organization meeting before Axel and Roxas went to Hollow Bastion.

If Xion wasn't there at the castle then there was no reason for her to be at the meeting.

The novel still doesn't contradict her existence.

 

[Audo]

Still though it it doesn't cotradict anything. Xion was still on her mission on Day 72 and thus would not have been at the Organization meeting before Axel and Roxas went to Hollow Bastion.

If Xion wasn't there at the castle then there was no reason for her to be at the meeting.

The novel still doesn't contradict her existence.

It certainly doesn't support it.

Also, as I said, it contradicts the game in that, in the short story, Roxas doesnt find out that everyone has been killed until Axel comes back (he asks them if Marluxia came back with him >.>) Yet in the game, he knows of this well before Axel shows up.

Point is, the game's canon overrides the novel's, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Memory Master]

It certainly doesn't support it.

Also, as I said, it contradicts the game in that, in the short story, Roxas doesnt find out that everyone has been killed until Axel comes back (he asks them if Marluxia came back with him >.>) Yet in the game, he knows of this well before Axel shows up.

Point is, the game's canon overrides the novel's, no matter how you look at it.

whether the short story supports her existence or not is irrelevant, the fact is it doesn't contradict it.

Remember though that the Organization told Roxas on Day 71 that is was confirmed that everyone in CO was killed. Then on the same day Axel appears before Roxas during his mission confirming he is alive.

So since the Organization was wrong about Axel being killed (Because he would be included in "everyone"), then Roxas may have been curious if the Organization was wrong about the other members being killed too, and so asked Axel about Marluxia out of curiousity, to see if anyone else had survived also.