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plothole? im confused...



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Clarkie

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Hey guys, I'm new.

All right, so if sora became a heartless to release kairi's heart... how did he come back as a whole? wouldnt he be incomplete without roxas and whatever type of new enemy is in birth by sleep being absorbed into him? I bet this is a common topic sorry... :p
 

peachie

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We assume Sora was incomplete before he rejoined with Roxas, since Roxas supposedly is made up of Sora's body and soul. Sora was "purified"as a heartless by kairi's magical hug, and regained his sense of self and his appearance and whatnot. From that point on he was a walking, talking heart up until he reunited with Roxas at the begining of KH2.

And we have no idea about what the unversed are made up of, and clearly what they are. So... no.
 

Jesus

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We assume Sora was incomplete before he rejoined with Roxas, since Roxas supposedly is made up of Sora's body and soul. Sora was "purified"as a heartless by kairi's magical hug, and regained his sense of self and his appearance and whatnot. From that point on he was a walking, talking heart up until he reunited with Roxas at the begining of KH2.

And we have no idea about what the unversed are made up of, and clearly what they are. So... no.

a walking -ealking heart sounds like something outta those health vids they make you see in elementary school
anyways this is correct except im pretty sure the hug didnt purify him cuz even sora has darkness in his heart
 

DarkSoldier85

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At least it's not as bad as how souls in bleach apparently aren't supposed to age.... But yeah, the other guy just summed it up.
 

destinykh

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Sinking into the light with a heart of pure darkne
anyways this is correct except im pretty sure the hug didnt purify him cuz even sora has darkness in his heart

Think of it this way: As a Heartless, Sora was a heart covered with darkness, which acts as a blanket surrounding it. Kairi cleansed the darkness that was covering the heart, but it was still intact, that is to say, it still has light and darkness within it. She lifted the blanket, so to speak.
 

Yuuki

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his heart was purified when kairi hug him so he return back to normal...kinda.
he was a walking heart with no body until he and roxas fuse back together
 

Owa

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Meh Basically he was like Xehanort's Heartless
An Essence of a heart
Kairi's Light allowed Sora to be physically intact
Until he rejoined with Roxas
 

Orion

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He was a Heartless, but without the Darkness. Kairi purified the Darkness from him.

End of story.
 

slmcknett

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Yup. Same as what everyone else said; he was just a purified Heart, but without a Body and a Soul, because those belonged to Roxas. After Sora and Roxas merged on Day 364, Sora was able to become complete.
 

sora-fan23

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When sora became a heartless, Roxas was made because nobodies are created when a person becomes a heartless.
I dunno how Sora became whole though :S
 

Goldpanner

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peachie said:
Roxas supposedly is made up of Sora's body and soul

Actually, Grace Assassin gave convincing evidence that Roxas didn't... Namine did.

Grace Assassin said:
In regards to how Roxas and Namine were born, I believe that the most commonly (almost unanimously, correct me if I’m wrong) held belief is as follows:

When Kairi and Sora’s hearts were released from Sora’s body, Sora’s body and soul were left behind as Roxas. Namine, on the other hand, was essentially created from nothing. It is a phenomenon AtW had earlier hypothesized in the Secret Ansem Reports when he believed that Namine came into existence when Kairi lost her heart (rather than when Sora lost Kairi’s heart).

I myself believed this unquestioningly for years.
But not too long ago, when I had been scrutinizing Another Report and the Secret Ansem Reports (for unrelated reasons), I by chance, came to another conclusion.

It is the exact opposite of what people have assumed. Namine, not Roxas, was born through Sora’s body and soul. Roxas, on the other hand, exists through unknown means.

I know there’s going to be an overwhelming amount of opposition to this idea. But hear me out. Give me the benefit of the doubt to explain this. It is NOT my theory, it’s what I have concluded that Nomura is saying. I’m just the messenger boy.

The bulk of what I’m about to say involves grammar. If you’re not familiar with the terminology or the concepts, rest assured that I am not leading you astray. I consider myself a grammar buff and, trust me, I know what I’m talking about. If you have any doubts, by all means bring them up and I’d be glad to give you a little tutoring. But don’t disregard it simply because you don’t understand.

You might scoff at how much I’m analyzing the grammar of a meager two or three paragraphs. But I do so in your best interest. If the vague, seemingly ambiguous structure in the sentences of Another Report/Secret Ansem Reports can fool me (as well as the entire KH community) this easily, then it deserves some serious examination.

Let’s get to work then.

"Essentially when a strong hearted person has their heart stolen, they change into a heartless, and on rare occasions their body changes into a Nobody. But in the case for these two, for Kairi's heart to be hidden within Sora, it took a special shape."

So let's take a look at that second sentence:
"But in the case for these two, for Kairi's heart to be hidden within Sora, it took a special shape."

The word “it” is behind most of the trouble here. What is the antecedent of "it”? Well, many assume it to be Kairi's heart.

But that is grammatically incorrect. "Kairi's heart" is in the prepositional phrase whereas "it" is in the independent clause. Because the prepositional phrase cuts in between the independent clause before the word "it," many people have that misconception that it=Kairi's heart (since “heart” is the closest noun that would be considered an “it.”). Plus, Kairi’s heart taking a special shape doesn’t really make sense in reference to special Nobodies, does it?

If we cut out the prepositional phrase to see the independent clause as a whole (which is fine), it reads, "But in the case for these two, it took a special shape." By reading the sentence as such, you can tell that the antecedent of "it" is in the previous sentence. So what noun could it be talking about?

The answer is "body." That is, the body ordinarily changes into a Nobody, “BUT” (used as a conjunction in the next sentence to refer to an exception) it (Sora’s “body”) took a special shape. When we read in it that context, the two sentences make sense grammatically as such:

Essentially when a strong hearted person has their heart stolen, they change into a heartless, and on rare occasions their body changes into a Nobody. But in the case of Sora and Kairi, Sora's body took a special shape because Kairi's heart had been hidden within it.

This is irrefutable. You cannot deny that Sora’s body is what took a special shape.
Now it’s a matter of deciphering semantics.

So what does he mean by "special shape" here then? How does Sora’s body take a special shape?
Let’s think. He says that, ordinarily, the body changes into a Nobody, which would be considered the original person’s Nobody. BUT Sora’s didn’t, it took a special shape. Sora’s body taking on the shape of Roxas, his Nobody, would be normal. Catching on? His vessel did not take the shape of his own Nobody, but as Kairi’s Nobody. Namine.

And you can note that he’s actually saying the same thing that Ansem the Wise said:

"I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously.

Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody… but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

[...]

Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul."

When AtW says, “but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora,” it does not mean Namine didn’t /use/ Sora’s vessel, but rather that DESPITE being Kairi’s Nobody, she was made from Sora’s body and soul.

And as for Namine coming into being “/via/ Sora’s body and soul.” It’s exactly what it says. ANY Nobody comes into being VIA the body and soul. While we usually consider the Nobody to be comprised of the same body and soul as their original, they technically aren’t. If they were, they would be existent (since a body and soul are definably existent) and would look exactly like their Somebodies (think of Kairi’s empty vessel when she loses her heart). Thus, they are born FROM (via) the left over body and soul.

Nifty, huh
 

Jesus

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So you're saying we should just accept whatever the writers throw at us, even if it is completely horrible? =.= I'm all for going with the ride, as long as the events in question make sense. There's no harm in asking why things happen.

learn it, live it,
LOVE IT
 

Clarkie

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okay, but how could roxas exist through his own means... something to do with ven?
 

Kitsune_XIII

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We assume Sora was incomplete before he rejoined with Roxas, since Roxas supposedly is made up of Sora's body and soul. Sora was "purified"as a heartless by kairi's magical hug, and regained his sense of self and his appearance and whatnot. From that point on he was a walking, talking heart up until he reunited with Roxas at the begining of KH2.

And we have no idea about what the unversed are made up of, and clearly what they are. So... no.

I don't know if this has been adressed here or not but...
We DO know what they are made of: Negative emotions.



And in response to the topic of the thread... well, people have already explained the 'walking/talking' heart bit.
But he wouldn't need an Unversed to become whole, because the unversed ceased to exist before KH1. We don't know if it happens in BbS or when Xehanort(the apprentice) first creates the Heartless, but we know that by KH1, Unversed no longer exist.
 

aweomeness96

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a walking -ealking heart sounds like something outta those health vids they make you see in elementary school
anyways this is correct except im pretty sure the hug didnt purify him cuz even sora has darkness in his heart

yeah, everybody has darkness in his/her heart, that i think is why roxas is bad, and why he has a heartless drive form. but also only the true good can see the darkness in their heart, and overcome it. just like riku, who overcame his evil, and learned to use darkness and light as his weapon.
 

Key of Valor

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Kitsune_XIII said:
I don't know if this has been adressed here or not but...
We DO know what they are made of: Negative emotions.

Technically, it was confirmed that the Unversed "grow" out of negative emotions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are composed out of negative emotions. Negative emotions might simply provide the means for their creation but don't become part of their composition.

About Sora though, nothing was really confirmed about his situation, so different possibilities exist. I personally believe that Kairi's light was able to construct a whole new vessel for Sora, so Sora wouldn't need to obtain the original vessel he lost. In what way Sora was "incomplete" was never confirmed as well, but I personally think it had to do with Sora's heart, which is the basis for why Roxas (whose composition was never confirmed) needed to return to him. These are just my views on the topic though. Again, different possibilities exist since not much about the situation was actually confirmed.
 

Muse

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anyways this is correct except im pretty sure the hug didnt purify him cuz even sora has darkness in his heart

The hug purified him of the darkness surrounding his heart so he ceased to be a Heartless. :v But it didn't cleanse him completely of darkness. Anti-Form is proof of that.
 
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