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Protagonist Roxas



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Radar

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In the scene in DDD when Roxas says, "This could have been the other way around.." (english version) what exactly is he implying?

I know Roxas was the 2nd choice as the 13th vessel, but he makes it sound like he could have been the Hero, and have absorbed Sora instead of vice-versa. He says "But it has to be you.."

Can someone just clear this little thing up for me please?
 

Ezekiel

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I don't understand this either. Maybe this is one of those things that will be cleared up in another game.
 

Ruran

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I think he's referring to their fight in KH2. Roxas was partly fighting to gain his existence back and if he won Roxas would have been the dominant existence over Sora. If that's the case then in a way, yeah, he's referring to how he could have been in Sora's place and vice-versa.
 

Roro

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I always took it as their roles could have been reversed, Roxas could have been in Sora's shoes and vice-versa, but the "it has to be you" part throws me off too lol, at first I thought maybe what Roxas meant by that was Sora is the only one that can set things right, kinda like what DiZ said.

On a side note I really liked that cutscene lol :p
 

Sephiroth0812

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In the scene in DDD when Roxas says, "This could have been the other way around.." (english version) what exactly is he implying?

I know Roxas was the 2nd choice as the 13th vessel, but he makes it sound like he could have been the Hero, and have absorbed Sora instead of vice-versa. He says "But it has to be you.."

Can someone just clear this little thing up for me please?

Roxas is indeed referring to the possible reversal of their roles, that instead of accepting the way things went in the end (which he didn't do until after his fight with Sora) he could have continued to resist and constantly fight to be the dominant entity inside their now shared body. Practically two hearts fighting for domination just like Terra and Xehanort.

That it "has to be Sora"-bit is because Roxas realized that Sora's heart is so special that he has the power to revive and save all those connected to him.
Roxas' heart is a newborn, just recently shaped one which did make connections, but not as many (Like Aqua and Terra, for example) and as deep as Sora's did and therefore Sora is more suited for the task at hand, also because simply of Sora's attitude, as Sora himself was essentially really the very first character who actually openly admitted that he sees Roxas as his own person and that he has the right to exist on his own (Axel/Lea may feel like that, but he never actually spilled it out).

This is also the reason why Roxas throws one of his rare genuine smiles after that and reinforces his statement that it has to be Sora to do the tasks at hand, because Sora's heart is the key not only for his own second chance but also those of others. Roxas realizes this and therefore proceeds to entrust his memories to Sora (and therefore his newborn heart and essentially his whole existence) because he knows Sora will eventually use it to restore him and mend his pain.

This goes in accordance to what was explained in Re: Coded regarding the memories of the suffering ones:
Re: Coded said:
Mickey: Naminé. You said Sora has to call these memories to the surface. Is it time?

Naminé (shaking her head): I can't say for sure. But I do know a day will come when they must rise from their sleep. And then, the only one who can save them...will be Sora.

The bold parts indicate it. One condition for Sora to be able to help them is to call their memories to the surface, make them accessible (presumably so they can be separated from Sora and awaken the sleeping hearts to which these memories belong).
In DDD, Roxas fulfilled that condition by himself when he didn't wait for Sora to call but proactively granted him access to his memories, also showing that Roxas obviously trusts Sora by now.
Too bad though that he wasn't aware that Team Xehanort was preying on Sora not being able to handle the pain and had already destabilized Sora's heart beforehand by the mindfuck-sequence courtesy of Young Xehanort.

The other way around Roxas may have had the opportunity to control Sora's body and (in essence) exist himself, but all of the other tormented people including Sora would have been doomed.
Roxas may yearn for an own existence, but he isn't so selfish that he would sacrifice others for it.


I always took it as their roles could have been reversed, Roxas could have been in Sora's shoes and vice-versa, but the "it has to be you" part throws me off too lol, at first I thought maybe what Roxas meant by that was Sora is the only one that can set things right, kinda like what DiZ said.

On a side note I really liked that cutscene lol :p

It was really meant like this, and the "it has to be you"-part I hope I could also explain somewhat understandable.
In short, your assumption is right that Roxas realized that if their roles were reversed, he could not accomplish the same results than Sora can because of the more refined connections and powers of Sora's heart (Roxas' heart is after all a relatvely new one that was also created in a more unusual way).
 

Goldpanner

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Yeah, Sephiroth is right.

I think he first realised it during their battle in KH2, when he saw all the faces of Sora's friends on his stained glass Awakening: Sora and his ability to connect to everyone is special. After that the rest of the battle was more of a test to make sure Sora was strong enough to feel good about conceding to. But you can tell he still isn't 100% happy about it. The look on his face when he says 'this could have been the other way around'. AHhh

Ahh Sora and Roxas....


Sidenote though, I don't think it's the 'newness' of Roxas heart that forms the obstacle here. In the ending AtW explains that it's just an innate ability of children to be able to see light in everything and give them hearts. And Sora saved Ven when he wasn't even properly born yet. Can't get much newer than that! So, I think it's entirely the attitude. And even though AtW says that, Sora's the only one who seems able to do what he does...
 

Sephiroth0812

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Yeah, Sephiroth is right.

I think he first realised it during their battle in KH2, when he saw all the faces of Sora's friends on his stained glass Awakening: Sora and his ability to connect to everyone is special. After that the rest of the battle was more of a test to make sure Sora was strong enough to feel good about conceding to. But you can tell he still isn't 100% happy about it. The look on his face when he says 'this could have been the other way around'. AHhh

Ahh Sora and Roxas....


Sidenote though, I don't think it's the 'newness' of Roxas heart that forms the obstacle here. In the ending AtW explains that it's just an innate ability of children to be able to see light in everything and give them hearts. And Sora saved Ven when he wasn't even properly born yet. Can't get much newer than that! So, I think it's entirely the attitude. And even though AtW says that, Sora's the only one who seems able to do what he does...

Great additional material to the topic, goldpanner. ^__^

Yep, that also goes well with the "I see, that's why [it choose you]"-bit Roxas mutters when floating above the awakening plattform.
The ability not only to connect with nearly everyone but also apparently the ability to revive/recreate some of them (with a little help from Realm of Sleep powers + Ansem's data, further reinforcing the "together we can accomplish stuff") is indeed a very special power, and in my personal opinion also a very powerful one.
Who cares if Sora isn't a "true" Keyblade Wielder if he has such a kind of power.
Of course this comes with some disadvantages, as Ansem said that Sora needs to always follow his heart, which may lead him into traps sometimes like in DDD, but for that he has someone who looks out for him and will most likely make sure that Sora can use this reviving power of his without going down in the process himself, which is obviously Riku's designated role by now, as he even keeps one of the "ingredients" (the "manual") for using those powers right now entrusted by Ansem.

Of course Rox isn't happy about that, as he has to give up his existence after all. Yet I tend to believe that realizing the scope of Sora's connecting power (and his "general love for others", as Ansem put it), made his decision to at least accept the status quo for the time being easier.

I agree that you can somewhat hear out the bitterness in his words at first, the eventual brightening of his expression after Sora treats him as his own person though is so powerful because it is such a radical change from his attitude before. It's really somewhat cute, if I may say that, lol.

Now that you mention it I do think that is correct. I overlooked Sora's newborn heart being moved by Ventus' pain and spontanely deciding to help him, that's indeed a crucial and important point which serves to back up Ansem the Wise's analysis.
Roxas' attitude on the other hand is a certain degree more negative in general than Sora's and his personality was also developed in front of a total different and more malevolent background.
Many people tend to forget it because Roxas looks physically like 14/15, but his mind is actually way younger and more "malleable" so to say, like i.e. very small kids that can be teached and imprinted several things which will eventually shape their personalities.
Such "mental conditioning" and manipulating also served as a big point in Xemnas' and Xigbar's plans to convince the Nobodies to yield to the false facts they spread about their nature and capabilities.

Right now it really looks like Sora is the only one able to, but in accordance with the "Sora is just an ordinary boy"-mantra I don't think the ability itself is that rare or unique, it's only that Sora is the only one so far to actually bother to unlock that ability.
According to Ansem it has much to do with the mindset and being able to draw on the pureness of a child's viewpoints, which is something very few people are able to do and also act upon.
 

Memory Master

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Right now it really looks like Sora is the only one able to, but in accordance with the "Sora is just an ordinary boy"-mantra I don't think the ability itself is that rare or unique, it's only that Sora is the only one so far to actually bother to unlock that ability.
According to Ansem it has much to do with the mindset and being able to draw on the pureness of a child's viewpoints, which is something very few people are able to do and also act upon.

Perhaps that in and of itself is Sora's special power. As we grow older we learn more about the natural world and become so entangled in the complexities of life, that we forget the innocence and simplicity of childhood. Remember when we were children we could see a fictional character and believe they may be real, perhaps in some universe there really is a Sora and other KH characters. Now suppose what made that universe real was in fact the belief of children it is real? Translating that into KH terms, Sora's belief in Roxas' right to be his own person allows Sora the abilitiy to bring back those who need to be restored.

Considering the christian symbolism in the series thus far, it would not surprise me this concept would be included in the series. In the Bible Jesus said to be like the children for they shall inherite the kingdom of God. It would seem he implies that the hearts and mindset of chidlren are closer to the ideal state all humans should exist in. That children are closer to his own likeness and therefore the likeness of God than adults are. Their simplicity may allow them to grasp greater truths than any adult could ever hope to understand. Perhaps this state of mind that children exist in allows them to create things that we adults see as fantasy. To make real the unreal. A creative power liken unto God's creative power. Children are able to believe in things without doubt, their beliefs can be so strong that they become real. Perhaps in our transition to adulthood we lose the most beautiful and powerful part of ourselves and we become creatures blinded by the shroud of complexity.

Translating this into KH terms, perhaps there is something that makes Sora's heart special in that it remains in the state of a child's heart no matter how old he gets. As such he is able to make real what is not real, and to restore what is normally loss forever. By having the child like heart of an ordinary boy he has in fact the potential to God like things. The ability to defy all logic and reality itself.

This puts Sora in stark contrast to Xehanort, whos heart is nothing but complexities and curiousities, and as such he is blind to and unable to grasp the truths that Sora can grasp. Perhaps this was Nomura's intention in making Master Xehanort an old man and Sora a teenager who still has the mindset of a child, a symbolic representation in their age to show the stark difference in the state of their hearts.

This is why I love KH, there are so many symbolic representations that make the story truly beautiful.
 
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