Spoilers ► question regarding Nomura's views on the story so far?

[Sonofjafar]

Has Nomura ever said whether or not he wanted more of Sora and Riku giving off ship vibes in KH3 like they did in KH2? I only ask cuz everyone who ships them are under the assumption that Nomura realy wants it to happen and i want to know if they have any sources to back that up

 

[kirabook]

I don't have any ships unless you count OT3 content. I really don't think Nomura cares about the ships. He's probably content giving both sides sprinkles of content to keep them happy for eternity without confirming or denying either side. It's probably for the best. Who in their right mind would want to poke the bear of the partially insane shipping community and have a chunk of the fanbase out for your head. It's much more profitable to keep the status quo AND it's probably a weight off his shoulders never having to choose a side if no sides exist and they're all on equal footing in his mind.

 

[Sonofjafar]

My sentiments exactly. Just the other day, some guy on Twitter was claiming the only reason Soriku isn’t canon is cuz Disney won’t allow it with no evidence to back it up. I don’t know if it had something to do with recent events or something but at least bring some evidence before bringing the people in charge into your argument

 

[AR829038]

I've always had this strange notion that Nomura is allergic to actual full-on romantic relationships in this series. Aside from the Disney characters who already come pre-packaged with love interests, you never really get the full lovey dovey treatment with any of Nomura's original characters. I get the sense that he's striving for this pseudo-pan-platonic thing that interconnects all the characters ('cause, y'know, every things connected, Sora/Riku/Kairi=land/sea/sky, yadda yadda). Either that, or he's just uncomfortable with the idea. After all, introducing actual romantic entanglements brings in a whole new mess of writing to deal with, and we all know how Nomura is at writing female characters on a normal day. Imagine the dialogue for a female character in an actual relationship! Ugh...

 

[DraceEmpressa]

Ya know , non canon ships a lot of times brings in more fans . Like the yaoi nonchanon ships for a famous work will get more fanwork than canon ship of a actual yaoi work. And if you somehow see it through the author's eyes, to relate to the author and see stuff from the author-particularly the japanese author's perspective, you can tell what kind of ships they like, and they intentionally leave it non canon for the sake to leave for room for shipping, as they were also once fans who started out from shipping non-canon ships. If you are being careful enough,you can also tell when authors likes problematic content like, incest, age difference,or "is ancient, but looks underage and behaves underage" trope, those tropes.

Japanese being japanese, the implied content matters more than the explicit. And it's no exception even with male authors. Like you can also tell Aqua/Terra AND Xehanort/Eraqus are both Nomura's Obi-wan/Anakin fanfic from the similar vibes, he is into that, without it being canon.

 

[Face My Fears]

I feel like Nomura has the attitude towards KH as Kazuki Takahashi has towards the Yugioh characters/plot. The major theme of the story is friendship, so he never pulled the trigger or focused on romantic relationships.

I'm just hoping Nomura actually goes there for Sora/Kairi. That is the only ship that I actually care to see unfold. As much as I like the idea of Riku/Namine, the only ship that feels necessary to be explored further in the series is Sora/Kairi.

But, of course, Nomura always has them separated so he never actually had a chance to have nice scenes with them together... and when he did have that chance in KH3, Sora was busying looking at two Rikus.

 

[AmaryllisMoth]

But, of course, Nomura always has them separated so he never actually had a chance to have nice scenes with them together...

To be fair I find it incredibly interesting that even the characters themselves point this out, which leads me to believe it's being done on purpose for some narrative reason later.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

To be fair I find it incredibly interesting that even the characters themselves point this out, which leads me to believe it's being done on purpose for some narrative reason later.

I think a lot of it is also hinted in the fact that Kairi talks about how Xehanort took her off the path of her destiny by sending her out into the sea of worlds as a child in MOM.

Or the necessity of sharing the paopu fruit for Kairi to be a part of Sora’s life.

Kairi was never meant to meet Sora in the way that she did. Perhaps never at all, and its possible “destiny” keeps trying to right itself by separating them at every turn. And Kairi seems aware of this to an extent.

It has a star-crossed lovers sort of vibe to it. Maybe a tongue-in-cheek reference to how Kairi can be written as 乖離 which can be read to mean “separation” or “estrangement”. Nomura likes his meanings within meanings after all.

 

[Elysium]

^ Oh, wow, that's never occurred to me before. I doubt the series will ever have a proper "ending," it will go forever as long as it makes money. But if, say, when Nomura retires, if they decide to shut the door on the old characters that he worked with and introduce new characters for the games that will be made without him, I wouldn't be surprised if the ending would be one that is similar to KH1, with the two being separated, only for good this time--Kairi on Radiant Garden and Sora on Destiny Islands.

 

[Sonofjafar]

^ Oh, wow, that's never occurred to me before. I doubt the series will ever have a proper "ending," it will go forever as long as it makes money. But if, say, when Nomura retires, if they decide to shut the door on the old characters that he worked with and introduce new characters for the games that will be made without him, I wouldn't be surprised if the ending would be one that is similar to KH1, with the two being separated, only for good this time--Kairi on Radiant Garden and Sora on Destiny Islands.

I don’t normally get attached to ships but after so many games of build up, I would feel robbed if Kairi and Sora get separated forever

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Has Nomura ever said whether or not he wanted more of Sora and Riku giving off ship vibes in KH3 like they did in KH2? I only ask cuz everyone who ships them are under the assumption that Nomura realy wants it to happen and i want to know if they have any sources to back that up

Not everybody lol. I feel like you are seeing a vocal minority on Twitter, or are misreading jokes as being serious.

Don’t get me wrong. Some do believe it, and personally I don’t see anything wrong with it because none of us can say with certainty what Nomura’s true intentions for anything with this series unless said it is said explicitly. And even then the truth can be obscured since we have to consider Nomura’s own feelings about how much he’s willing to speak about with true honesty and what is being tailored by PR team’s oversight.

It is pretty sus Nomura hand-picked a BL novelist to become the writer of the novels of his series…and the ever-present dynamics of characters like Sora-Riku, Axel/Lea-Saix/Isa, Xehanort-Eraqus; Strelitzia being essentially bi with her crush on the Player, though this is seen as vaguely problematic in video games as there is a difference between confirmed bisexuality vs hardwired bisexuality because of the players ability to choose their gender not affecting a characters interest in the player, and this brings into question a lot of things that I don’t want to dive into atm; an underdevelopment of Sora and Kairi’s relationship…

I could go on, but my point is that given the facts, I can see why people would come to a conclusion like this, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other facts to consider that can lead to another interpretation.

And it’s probably meant to be this way because this sort of gray space makes SE more money. They can play all sides of the field without ever locking anything in for certain until they decide the series has reached a conclusion.

I don’t normally get attached to ships but after so many games of build up, I would feel robbed if Kairi and Sora get separated forever

Hey, imagine what people feel about soriku xD

 

[Sonofjafar]

Hey, imagine what people feel about soriku xD

At least Soriku fans got the scene in KH2 where it looks Sora is grabbing Riku by the hindquarters

 

[Face My Fears]

To be fair I find it incredibly interesting that even the characters themselves point this out, which leads me to believe it's being done on purpose for some narrative reason later.

I felt that way since the KH3 intro. It was very symbolic. Every time Sora and Kairi were next to each other, something separated them. It was pretty much confirmed to me when Kairi brought it up in Melody of Memory.

Which is why I'm hoping - like REALLY hoping - Nomura uses the "mistreatment of Kairi" as an actual plot point. Something was trying to keep them apart. Either they are way too powerful together or maybe... it can actually be something bad?

 

[Sonofjafar]

I wouldn't be surprised if the ending would be one that is similar to KH1, with the two being separated, only for good this time--Kairi on Radiant Garden and Sora on Destiny Islands.

I know this quote was a while ago but it gave me an idea. What if this were to happen and Sora were to lose hope in the light and basically become the new villain for the arc after he loses Kairi, having a few devoted followers who will assist him in destroying the world order that took his love from him

 

[Face My Fears]

I know this quote was a while ago but it gave me an idea. What if this were to happen and Sora were to lose hope in the light and basically become the new villain for the arc after he loses Kairi, having a few devoted followers who will assist him in destroying the world order that took his love from him

For some reason, I actually want Kairi to be the one that becomes "evil".

I had an idea that Kairi realizes that the darkness (or whatever entity) does not want her and Sora together. She decides to use her pure light powers to eradicate the darkness. In doing so, it will put the world out of balance and Sora will have to stop her and actually help the darkness.

 

[The_Echo]

I've always had this strange notion that Nomura is allergic to actual full-on romantic relationships in this series. Aside from the Disney characters who already come pre-packaged with love interests, you never really get the full lovey dovey treatment with any of Nomura's original characters. I get the sense that he's striving for this pseudo-pan-platonic thing that interconnects all the characters ('cause, y'know, every things connected, Sora/Riku/Kairi=land/sea/sky, yadda yadda). Either that, or he's just uncomfortable with the idea. After all, introducing actual romantic entanglements brings in a whole new mess of writing to deal with, and we all know how Nomura is at writing female characters on a normal day. Imagine the dialogue for a female character in an actual relationship! Ugh...

I think if Nomura could have everything exactly how he wanted it, even the (now rather obvious) romantic tension between Sora and Kairi would be eliminated. (And I would prefer that, actually.)

Kingdom Hearts is about friendship.
It's my opinion that most of what people see in KH as what OP called "ship vibes" are in reality just things friends do, but we're conditioned to view most forms of intimacy, especially emotional intimacy, as having implicit romantic undertones. So KH becomes a series full of BL relationships because we're too repressed to recognize a genuine platonic bond for what it is.

 

[Absent]

It's my opinion that most of what people see in KH as what OP called "ship vibes" are in reality just things friends do, but we're conditioned to view most forms of intimacy, especially emotional intimacy, as having implicit romantic undertones. So KH becomes a series full of BL relationships because we're too repressed to recognize a genuine platonic bond for what it is.

Imma skip the formalities and just say that's bullshit. There's nuances and boundaries but let's not forget that living in a heteronormative/sexist society has insidiously programmed us to biases and behaviors to which we view women and in turn the levels of bond men possess. Because I know we all like to pretend that this all happens in a vacuum but it doesn't.

Sexism plays a big role in this, and we're so used to on the nose sexism that we ignore the ripple effect it has on everything. When women are tropes and trophies in a story instead of character, the bonds the men have become more intimate and powerful. You don't have to look far for more examples in Japanese media because Shonen(which KH has become) has a massive problem with this. And you gotta wonder at some point, why do mostly women and some minorities are more likely to view/interpret queer ships? Again, everything is interconnected and the web that strings along all these issues is sexism and how we treat women in all forms of media(and obviously in real life).

Sex and gender are so ingrained into our biases that the idea of a friendship being interpreted as romantic is an issue and/or affront to many people, and that's what I take issue in. Its the same copy paste tirade/script that I hear and read all the time, and frankly I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it, because it doesn't try to help the situation or address the problem, because the intention is to silence and maintain the status quo.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

And it isn’t just sexism and misogyny at play. It’s also the erasure of queer relationships in culture as a whole that has led to people seeking representation in spaces that lack these sort of relationships.

People like to complain that there is a lack of intimate, platonic male relationships in media and yet as a whole it is probably the most predominant relationship in media after male/female relationships. You see a male friendship depicted with way more depth and nuance than you do a male/female romance often times because a male’s relationship with a woman is treated as something that is a given.

And you never almost never see male/male romantic relationships develop from close bonds. People see the intimacy and closeness and see or want more because popular media has stigmatized it, and so LGBTQ+ people, minorities, and women who view intimacy as key components of a healthy romantic relationship will look at close male friendships in media and interpret them in a romantic way because 1) there is little media that allows them to be romantic so people seek it out in what content is available for them 2) because they see their own romantic relationships or understanding of how romance works within these relationships 3) because these relationships have way more development than the male/female leads and people latch onto what they see as better chemistry.

Don’t get me wrong. There is a bit of toxic masculinity happening by malicious people who think intimate male relationships are disgusting, and thus call them gay, but this isn’t what is driving people to ship male characters with each other, and it isn’t the erasure of intimacy in society that is doing it either.

I don’t know if I’m doing a good job of explaining this as it is 1am and I have barely slept, but Absent is also right that there is a strong degree of sexism being employed to silence the minority and what they enjoy because they seek to maintain the status quo, or feel uncomfortable at the implications because they believe it brings into question their own relationships with other men.

Like…at the end of the day y’all still have your intimate, platonic male relationships. They are right there. Nothing has changed. Sasuke and Naruto are bros for example. Sora and Riku are…best friends who have questioned (Sora) and decidedly crossed out (Riku) the brotherly concept out of their relationship. That millionth buddy cop show is still just about a friendship. That one piece of media that gets qualified as a bromance is still just dudes being bros who fist bump. (I am too tired to think of actual examples so I won’t bother listing them).

 

[Sorarocks93]

My sentiments exactly. Just the other day, some guy on Twitter was claiming the only reason Soriku isn’t canon is cuz Disney won’t allow it with no evidence to back it up. I don’t know if it had something to do with recent events or something but at least bring some evidence before bringing the people in charge into your argument

I feel like whoever talks about Soriku just hasn't paid attention to the story enough.

Sora and Kairi's relationship has always been a bit more than just friendly. This goes back all the way in KH1. From the way Sora looks at Riku when Riku is thanking Kairi for showing up and giving him the idea that there's more to the world than just the tiny islands he is from. Kairi and Sora talking alone at the pier and she jokingly saying that they should just go together, just the two of them. The rest of the game being Sora and Riku arguing over her towards the end. Riku saying "take care of her". And finally the ending cinematic where Sora and Kairi separate for the last time until KH2.

Chain of Memories makes this WAY more apparent. Namine takes the role of Kairi because Kairi is Sora's light. He was obsessed with finding her because she was his "Kairi" at that exact moment and she was "all that he cared about" like Goofy says at one point. At the end, the last person he needs to remember in order to make the connection is Kairi. If anything, Chain of Memories, other than Re:Mind, is the game that shows just how much Sora loves Kairi.

In KH2 there isn't that much, but the scene where he sees Jack and Sally dancing makes him think of himself and Kairi, and so does the scene where Will and Elisabeth finally find each other again.

Then there's Re:Mind... It really can't get more obvious than that, unless actual words are spoken. The entirety of that DLC is about Sora and how strong his feelings are about Kairi.

I've always had this strange notion that Nomura is allergic to actual full-on romantic relationships in this series. Aside from the Disney characters who already come pre-packaged with love interests, you never really get the full lovey dovey treatment with any of Nomura's original characters. I get the sense that he's striving for this pseudo-pan-platonic thing that interconnects all the characters ('cause, y'know, every things connected, Sora/Riku/Kairi=land/sea/sky, yadda yadda). Either that, or he's just uncomfortable with the idea. After all, introducing actual romantic entanglements brings in a whole new mess of writing to deal with, and we all know how Nomura is at writing female characters on a normal day. Imagine the dialogue for a female character in an actual relationship! Ugh...

He isn't allergic to it. He was gonna write a romantic relationship in Versus XIII. Yozora seems to have a girlfriend, possibly, from the cinematic we've seen in the Toy Box.

Also, whats wrong with the female characters he writes? Aqua seems fine to me? And so did Xion? Namine, Olette, Ava, Invi (even though there's very little of her) seemed all fine aswell?

I don’t normally get attached to ships but after so many games of build up, I would feel robbed if Kairi and Sora get separated forever

I wouldn't expect anything other than a happy ending for KH, whenever that ends.

Like, it's just out of the question.

 

[Elysium]

I think if Nomura could have everything exactly how he wanted it, even the (now rather obvious) romantic tension between Sora and Kairi would be eliminated. (And I would prefer that, actually.)

Kingdom Hearts is about friendship.
It's my opinion that most of what people see in KH as what OP called "ship vibes" are in reality just things friends do, but we're conditioned to view most forms of intimacy, especially emotional intimacy, as having implicit romantic undertones. So KH becomes a series full of BL relationships because we're too repressed to recognize a genuine platonic bond for what it is.

IMO, this is one of those things, much like the trio stuff*, that is imposed retroactively from later games onto the first game. There was certainly a romantic tinge to KH1.

* By that I mean, there wasn't this hyper-focus on Sora, Riku, and Kairi as a trio in KH1 the way there is on ATV and RAX in BbS and Days. SDG were probably focused on more in that way than SRK, but it was in more of a three musketeers fashion.