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Question: Why wasn't lenzo mad at Lea?



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Reika

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Ienzo's a logical dude. Why hold a grudge when Lea, then Axel, had no heart to feel remorse with? At that time, they had no emotions, so "murder" wasn't exactly as cold-blooded as it is in the real world. It's terrifying in the real world because murder is usually committed by people who DO have emotions, yet still hold no remorse towards their horrible actions. But when Axel killed Zexion, there was nothing malicious or evil behind it, because Axel lacked the heart to be able to act on such emotions. Ienzo probably realizes this and knows that Lea wasn't exactly at fault for destroying what didn't exist in the first place.
 

Gram

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Ienzo's a logical dude. Why hold a grudge when Lea, then Axel, had no heart to feel remorse with? At that time, they had no emotions, so "murder" wasn't exactly as cold-blooded as it is in the real world. It's terrifying in the real world because murder is usually committed by people who DO have emotions, yet still hold no remorse towards their horrible actions. But when Axel killed Zexion, there was nothing malicious or evil behind it, because Axel lacked the heart to be able to act on such emotions. Ienzo probably realizes this and knows that Lea wasn't exactly at fault for destroying what didn't exist in the first place.

Except Axel, Zexion and other members showed signs of emotion even then. Axel remarks that he is "enjoying this" when he's working his double agent thing.
Xemnas also expresses that several members were:
"There may have been variances in our dispositions, but a number of us unquestionably showed signs of a burgeoning replacement."

Zexion was obviously one such member given his expression of fear upon his death at the hands of Repliku.
 

Reika

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Except Axel, Zexion and other members showed signs of emotion even then. Axel remarks that he is "enjoying this" when he's working his double agent thing.
Xemnas also expresses that several members were:

Zexion was obviously one such member given his expression of fear upon his death at the hands of Repliku.

Did Zexion realize that, though? He felt fear, but he didn't get much chance to dwell on that fact because he died right after. I'm not saying Axel DIDN'T do such a horrible thing with maliciousness behind it, just that Zexion may not have realized that emotions were driving the actions.
 

Gram

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Did Zexion realize that, though? He felt fear, but he didn't get much chance to dwell on that fact because he died right after. I'm not saying Axel DIDN'T do such a horrible thing with maliciousness behind it, just that Zexion may not have realized that emotions were driving the actions.

Whether Zexion understood or not is rather moot as was whether Axel killed him out of a twisted sense of enjoyment. The point is they felt things and that it makes little sense him not to now that he's human again.

Whether your aware of your emotions or not doesn't keep them from being controlled by emotion.
 

Reika

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Whether Zexion understood or not is rather moot as was whether Axel killed him out of a twisted sense of enjoyment. The point is they felt things and that it makes little sense him not to now that he's human again.

Whether your aware of your emotions or not doesn't keep them from being controlled by emotion.

Oh, I know. Axel is far from an innocent party here. But this thread is asking why Ienzo wasn't mad at Lea, and even though there WERE emotions in Zexion's death scene, if Ienzo didn't know that there were emotions controlling Axel's actions (considering, as far as Zexion/Ienzo knows, Nobodies aren't supposed to have emotions), he may not be angry over it.
 

Gram

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Oh, I know. Axel is far from an innocent party here. But this thread is asking why Ienzo wasn't mad at Lea, and even though there WERE emotions in Zexion's death scene, if Ienzo didn't know that there were emotions controlling Axel's actions (considering, as far as Zexion/Ienzo knows, Nobodies aren't supposed to have emotions), he may not be angry over it.

But that's not the point, the point is Zexion\Ienzos emotions on it not what Axel was feeling. Whether someone enjoys it or not doesn't take away from this kind of act and thus the OP question of why Ienzo isn't angry by said action. It's just not normal, of course the series can be bad for brushing a such things under the tug but it's still the point of what the OP was asking.
 

Reika

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But that's not the point, the point is Zexion\Ienzos emotions on it not what Axel was feeling. Whether someone enjoys it or not doesn't take away from this kind of act and thus the OP question of why Ienzo isn't angry by said action. It's just not normal, of course the series can be bad for brushing a such things under the tug but it's still the point of what the OP was asking.

But that kinda brings me back to my original point. xD; Ienzo is a logical guy. His logic (based on the knowledge he has, which probably doesn't include that Nobodies can grow hearts and feel emotions) tells him that Axel was not malicious or evil in his attack as he had no heart to do so nor to feel remorse for his actions. Axel didn't HAVE to have Zexion killed, but, if Nobodies lack emotions (as far as Ienzo/Zexion knows), what was there that would have stopped Axel? For Axel to not launch his attack, he would have had to feel regret, hesitation, and a conscious -- all of which, as far as Ienzo/Zexion knows, Axel wasn't able to do, thus not making it totally Axel's fault (it IS Axel's fault for behaving like a homicidal maniac, but Ienzo doesn't know that).

It's all in what knowledge Ienzo has, and the ability for Nobodies to grow hearts is not among that knowledge yet.
 

Gram

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But that kinda brings me back to my original point. xD; Ienzo is a logical guy. His logic (based on the knowledge he has, which probably doesn't include that Nobodies can grow hearts and feel emotions) tells him that Axel was not malicious or evil in his attack as he had no heart to do so nor to feel remorse for his actions. Axel didn't HAVE to have Zexion killed, but, if Nobodies lack emotions (as far as Ienzo/Zexion knows), what was there that would have stopped Axel? For Axel to not launch his attack, he would have had to feel regret, hesitation, and a conscious -- all of which, as far as Ienzo/Zexion knows, Axel wasn't able to do, thus not making it totally Axel's fault (it IS Axel's fault for behaving like a homicidal maniac, but Ienzo doesn't know that).

It's all in what knowledge Ienzo has, and the ability for Nobodies to grow hearts is not among that knowledge yet.

That still plays back into the OP though because regardless of logic anyone would be angry at being killed for more or less no reason, Ienzo isn't a nobody anymore but human so the whole logic thing doesn't negate feelings anymore.
Even if he didn't know about nobodies he does realize he's human and that humans are emotional.

There's no way to argue this without going in circles as your point doesn't debunk the OP question nor it yours. In the end it makes no sense that he wouldn't be angry because whether Axel enjoyed it or not is moot, the fact remains he killed Zexion for no reason and your debate of logic and lack of emotion doesn't alter that.
 

digimikej

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part of this argument is why I love axel/lea. he's really, REALLY not that good of a guy, even though he's a "good guy". he may be on our side, but i feel like if he had to, he wouldn't be above cold blooded murder to help out. theres a reason he was the assassin of org. 13.
 

Samhain

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That still plays back into the OP though because regardless of logic anyone would be angry at being killed for more or less no reason, Ienzo isn't a nobody anymore but human so the whole logic thing doesn't negate feelings anymore.
Even if he didn't know about nobodies he does realize he's human and that humans are emotional.

There's no way to argue this without going in circles as your point doesn't debunk the OP question nor it yours. In the end it makes no sense that he wouldn't be angry because whether Axel enjoyed it or not is moot, the fact remains he killed Zexion for no reason and your debate of logic and lack of emotion doesn't alter that.
This.

and digimikej I agree...I mentioned awhile ago that he's all "buddy-buddy" with the apprentices...something I'm pretty Sora and Co won't agree with it. Ansem the Wise would definitely want to be the crap out of all of his apprentices, and I don't think he'll ever forgive him...or it's possible he'll just go bias and point it all at Xehanort and forgive the others, but little does he know the apprentices are just as responsible for screwing him over than Xehanort
 

Ballad of Caius

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This.

and digimikej I agree...I mentioned awhile ago that he's all "buddy-buddy" with the apprentices...something I'm pretty Sora and Co won't agree with it. Ansem the Wise would definitely want to be the crap out of all of his apprentices, and I don't think he'll ever forgive him...or it's possible he'll just go bias and point it all at Xehanort and forgive the others, but little does he know the apprentices are just as responsible for screwing him over than Xehanort
That would be an interesting relationship to explorer: AtW's relation with the new reborn apprentices that had banished him. I just hope that the game has enough time and a good pacing for them to display this.
 
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