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Refutable BBSv2 possibilities



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whodeany

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I know that a lot of you already figure these things will be in BBSv2 (providing it is a game (which I think it will be)), but I figured I should share some research with you guys. I personally think there will be a Mickey campaign in this game, and a lot of these idea's point to that. Or at least him having some serious involvement in the plot...

-- Zack appears at the Coliseum, but was there a reason why he is the only FF character this time around?

Nomura: ...There were other characters we wanted to show, but since they’ll be appearing in a different game we didn’t put them in this one. As it isn’t a game we’ve announced yet, I can’t tell you who it is (laugh).
- From Birth By Sleep Ultimania Interview

My take? v2 will have Cid and the gang during the fall of Hollow Bastion. It would be awesome to play this scenario as Mickey, saving people from the sudden increase in heartless as you slowly make your way toward the castle, which could climax in a battle between Mickey and Xehanort, as he is about to throw himself into the darkness. Or better yet, Braig, as he has to slow down Mickey so that he cant stop Xehanort from falling to darkness. In fact.. I like the second idea better. Do that Nomura.
Or: I heard somewhere that Laguna Loire was supposed to be in BBS, so this could be referring to him. I have no source for this, so don't bother asking for one.

-- So then, why is Xemnas of Organization XIII searching for Ven?

Nomura: Well, there's still some time between the ending of 'Birth by Sleep' and 'KHI', so...
- From Birth By Sleep Famitsu Interview

Could explain a better reason why Xemnas wants Ven (or his body), apart from the obvious "I want my friend back." I'd prefer it if in Xemnas's insanity he remembered the X-blade idea, and needed Ven as raw materials. But, this would make Xemnas less of a 'tragic hero' and more of an 'asshole'.

After debugging Traverse Town, the King says to Sora, “That day, your travels began here. Also on that day, I was here too.” Does that mean that the King was in the same place at the same time as Sora adventured into Traverse Town in Kingdom Hearts I?

Nomura: Seems so. What he was actually doing becomes the previously mentioned “blank time period”, but in this title, it’s implying that the two crossed paths in the same place.
- From Re: Coded Ultimania Interview

You will be able to play as Mickey in Traverse Town, and will watch from a distance as Sora/Donald/Goofy meet. Maybe you'll have to guide them too one another, while not being seen, somehow? Maybe you will have to fight along side Leon, or Cid could get off his ass and do some fighting. After Sora leaves of course, and Mickey will swear them to silence... For whatever reason.

Is it possible that the King met with her in the World of Darkness during Kingdom Hearts I?

Nomura: About that, I can't yet say.
From Re: Coded Famitsu interview

Mickey and Aqua will meet in the ROD. Probably toward the end of Mickey's campaign. It would be cool to fight a group of darkside with Aqua as an assist character. They could shed some light on why the *(&$ Mickey and Yen Sid have yet to save her.

---

So this is all I have found so far. What do you think? Some of these ideas sound plausible? Getting excited for BBSv2? I am. Despite only a single trailer and no mention of it since....

e3... please...
 

Taochan

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I'm glad you brought up these quotes, because I haven't read most of them.
Literally there is no way that I'll be fine with Mickey actually meeting Aqua in the RoD, even though a lot points to that being a real possibility.

Now, I would really like to watch Radiant Gardens fall and essentially become Hollow Bastian, along with the FF cast and the Organization possibly being turned.
And I've always been fine with the aspect of a Mickey scenario, which it seems like there really could be.

I'm not sure how I feel about the rest and I'm too tired to think of anymore to say~
 

Zul

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Could explain a better reason why Xemnas wants Ven (or his body), apart from the obvious "I want my friend back." I'd prefer it if in Xemnas's insanity he remembered the X-blade idea, and needed Ven as raw materials. But, this would make Xemnas less of a 'tragic hero' and more of an 'asshole'.

I find the 'tragic hero' label fits only if you associate Xemnas with Terra, I know Xemnas was more associated with Terra in KH2FM, seeing as how he calls Aqua's armor "friend" and is in fact, Terra's body.

But the fact that in BBSv2 they overlay Xemnas on young MX (at the end of the trailer) makes me think that they really do intend for him to be primarily Xehanorts nobody and not "Terranorts" nobody.

I wouldn't be too surprised if he was trying to find Ven for another keyblade use or something.
 

whodeany

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I find the 'tragic hero' label fits only if you associate Xemnas with Terra, I know Xemnas was more associated with Terra in KH2FM, seeing as how he calls Aqua's armor "friend" and is in fact, Terra's body.

But the fact that in BBSv2 they overlay Xemnas on young MX (at the end of the trailer) makes me think that they really do intend for him to be primarily Xehanorts nobody and not "Terranorts" nobody.

I wouldn't be too surprised if he was trying to find Ven for another keyblade use or something.

I agree. But I can't help but wonder how they'll handle Ansem/Xemnas in the future. It seems that Ansem was purely evil, and wanted kingdom hearts only for power. The way he is constantly goading Riku to the darkness during COM, for example.
Xemnas on the other hand, never really fit into the 'super evil bad guy' motif, and even though his methods were flawed he could totally be acting under Terra's confused direction. But again, no one as any proof yet, so we can only discuss.
Besides, we don't need the two enemies to be exactly the same, I'd much rather them signify the two halves of MX/Terra, and maybe slightly Eraqus.
 

Memory Master

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I find the 'tragic hero' label fits only if you associate Xemnas with Terra, I know Xemnas was more associated with Terra in KH2FM, seeing as how he calls Aqua's armor "friend" and is in fact, Terra's body.

But the fact that in BBSv2 they overlay Xemnas on young MX (at the end of the trailer) makes me think that they really do intend for him to be primarily Xehanorts nobody and not "Terranorts" nobody.

I wouldn't be too surprised if he was trying to find Ven for another keyblade use or something.

On the subject of Xemnas and Ansem, this is how I understand it:

Terranort's heart is MX and Terra's hearts merged into 1 heart.

This merged heart became XH. But since MX's influence is greater than Terra's, XH takes more characteristics from MX.

Xemnas being the body and soul of Terra takes more characteristics from Terra. But since MX was still part of Terranort's heart, Xemnas took some influence from him too (White hair, tan skin, yellow eyes, lust for power, hand gestures, ect.)

I think worlds that were consumed by the heartless will appear in the dark realm in BBS2. I'm expecting Mickey's scenario to take place in both the realm of light and the dark realm. And Aqua's scenario will take place mostly in the dark realm. I also think there will be a Riku scenario covering all the periods of his absence through out the series.

EDIT: I forgot that Eraqus' heart is inside of Terra's. So about the Terranort's heart thing, it's basicaly what I said but Eraqus gets added into the mix as well. (I really think Eraqus being a part of this was unnecessary, I like the guy but his death was good enough, I liked him as the master that was struck down.)
 
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Sephiroth0812

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I find the 'tragic hero' label fits only if you associate Xemnas with Terra, I know Xemnas was more associated with Terra in KH2FM, seeing as how he calls Aqua's armor "friend" and is in fact, Terra's body.

But the fact that in BBSv2 they overlay Xemnas on young MX (at the end of the trailer) makes me think that they really do intend for him to be primarily Xehanorts nobody and not "Terranorts" nobody.

I wouldn't be too surprised if he was trying to find Ven for another keyblade use or something.

I would actually wonder where that "tragic hero" label comes from...it makes it almost sound like Xemnas was a form of Terra, which isn't the case.

Xemnas is a form of Xehanort, not Terra. If one reads the secret reports of Days and looks at the entries written by Xemnas, as well as keeping in mind what Xemnas told Ansem the Wise in KH II it's more than just reasonable to assume him as a full fledged villain rather than a misunderstood tragic figure.

Him calling Aqua's armor "friend" (notice it's always in quotation marks!) and franctically searching for the chamber of waking can be contributed to him having some memories of Terra, yes, but that does in no way mean Terra has any sort of active influence.
We only know that Xemnas searched for the other chamber and conversed with Aqua's armor, but we have not a single clue on his reasons and underlying intentions for doing so.

I said it before, Xemnas is foremost a form of Xehanort, with maybe a little Terra and Eraqus mixed in, but Xehanort's ambitions and desires are clearly dominating.
I found some people, at least in my opinion, putting way too much emphasis on the "Terra-part" of Xemnas, just because he has "something" from Terra like some physical characteristics and some memories that makes him not suddenly a good guy or some "new Terra".

As seen in A fragmentary passage and also in the recent 3D Trailer Xemnas is put in the same line as Ansem SoD, Young Xehanort and Master Xehanort himself, which I would, combined which what we can see and learn from Xemnas's dominating actions and behaviour in Days and KH II, put much clearly way more on the Xehanort-side.

---
On the other proposals however:

The Mickey campaign is a very high possibility, as Mickey's story is one of the two tales Nomura wanted to tell that aren't covered yet.
We already know that Mickey visited Radiant Garden several times between the end of BBS and its fall, but if he really was there during Maleficent's heartless invasion is, while surely intriguing gameplay-wise, questionable.
Him fighting Xehanort would actually contradict him not directly remembering him in KH II...he only did so after seeing Xemnas the first time. If Mickey and Xehanort had fought the king would surely have remembered that, so Braig is in that scenario not only the better, but also the more plausible option.

Mickey in Traverse was actually the starting point of his adventure in the RoD, as he used a random Corridor of Darkness popping up there to get into the RoD.

So yes, that Mickey campaign is highly plausible, only the fall of Radiant Garden I wouldn't count on, as it may create further plotholes, which this entry is normally said to solve. ;)

Memory Master said:
I think worlds that were consumed by the heartless will appear in the dark realm in BBS2. I'm expecting Mickey's scenario to take place in both the realm of light and the dark realm. And Aqua's scenario will take place mostly in the dark realm. I also think there will be a Riku scenario covering all the periods of his absence through out the series.
Agreed, Aqua having a scenario/Campaign was practically outright shown (if it's a game, that is), and Riku is plausible too as the story of his "absence" is the second plot Nomura still wants to cover.
 

localorange

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I would actually wonder where that "tragic hero" label comes from...it makes it almost sound like Xemnas was a form of Terra, which isn't the case.

Xemnas is a form of Xehanort, not Terra. If one reads the secret reports of Days and looks at the entries written by Xemnas, as well as keeping in mind what Xemnas told Ansem the Wise in KH II it's more than just reasonable to assume him as a full fledged villain rather than a misunderstood tragic figure.

Him calling Aqua's armor "friend" (notice it's always in quotation marks!) and franctically searching for the chamber of waking can be contributed to him having some memories of Terra, yes, but that does in no way mean Terra has any sort of active influence.
We only know that Xemnas searched for the other chamber and conversed with Aqua's armor, but we have not a single clue on his reasons and underlying intentions for doing so.

I said it before, Xemnas is foremost a form of Xehanort, with maybe a little Terra and Eraqus mixed in, but Xehanort's ambitions and desires are clearly dominating.
I found some people, at least in my opinion, putting way too much emphasis on the "Terra-part" of Xemnas, just because he has "something" from Terra like some physical characteristics and some memories that makes him not suddenly a good guy or some "new Terra".

As seen in A fragmentary passage and also in the recent 3D Trailer Xemnas is put in the same line as Ansem SoD, Young Xehanort and Master Xehanort himself, which I would, combined which what we can see and learn from Xemnas's dominating actions and behaviour in Days and KH II, put much clearly way more on the Xehanort-side.

The way I always thought of it, was that Xemnas is an empty shell with memories that are both Terra's and Xehanort's inside of him. But the key issue is he can't tell them apart. This could result in him having a Jekyl and Hyde attitude, with Jekyl winning as time passes. I can see a scenario being something like: Xemnas knew his somebody was an apprentice of Ansem, Ansem is an idiot, blah blah blah. But Xemnas's somebody also had two very good friends - a woman with short blue hair that was a keyblade warrior, and a teenage boy that looks suspiciously like one of his newest members. [I say this because in Days when Roxas falls into a coma for the first time, Xemans says, "So, I see sleep has taken you yet again." He's very much referring to Ventus.] But Xemnas is certain that his two dearly departed friends were helping him obtain his goals. And he may or may not have connected Ventus to the x blade.

That being said, one of the major things I am quite anxious to see in BBS v2 is the fall of Ansem's apprentices, as well as the appearance of the remaining members of the Org, and at the very least, how they were recruited.
 

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Mickey probably will have a campaign. But there are no Final Fantasy characters that Nomura was referring to. He was referring to Laguna from VIII. He was supposed to be your guide in the Mirage Arena, but since he's in Duodecim(The other title) Nomura didn't want him in both for some reason. Mickey will probably venture into Traverse Town, and meet Aqua.
 

Nayru's Love

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As far as Terra's control/influence over Xemnas went, I'd say it was slim to none. Even if Xemnas had Terra's memories, that still wouldn't have made him "Terra," or even a combination of Terra and Xehanort (sort of, anyways). What Xehanort/XH/Xemnas lacked was Terra's mind. Without it, any of the Xehanorts would have been as much Terra as Xion was Sora. Granted, Terra could have still influenced the Xehanorts, but as far as I'm concerned, all of them are, at their cores, Xehanort.
 

avatarnaruto23

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I think there will be new FF characters introduced, but I doubt that Cid and the gang were them. My money is on Rinoa because that would seem to coincide with the note squall recieved during the end of KHII and it's about time she's been in something other than FFVIII
 

Memory Master

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To clear up my views of the Terranort stuff. I don't think either MX or Terra were in control of either Xemnas or XH. I think XH and Xemnas were acting of their own will. I think this whole time MX and Terra's personalities have been sealed along with Terranort's memories inside of the merged heart. And as such Terranort developed his own personality with influences from both MX and Terra. Once Terranort became a heartless and nobody, MX's influence was more apparrent in XH and Terra's influence was more apparrent in Xemnas, but the two still had their own wills and minds.

Xemnas and XH goals and actions (Particulary the evil goals and actions) were of course influenced by MX but still it was the curiosity and lust for power developed by Terranort when he was an apprentice of Ansem that fueled XH and Xemnas' actions.

This is how I see it anyways.
 

localorange

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I think there will be new FF characters introduced, but I doubt that Cid and the gang were them. My money is on Rinoa because that would seem to coincide with the note squall recieved during the end of KHII and it's about time she's been in something other than FFVIII

If anything, I think she'd be in the future games. Although given that she is very much the canon love interest for Leon, it would be interesting to see where she was between BBS and KH2. The OP mentioned something about Laguna, which I think would be really cool to see. But of course, Leon and Seitzer appear to not be aware of each other at all, so...*shrugs* who knows.

What I would like to see just for the fun of it, is more Zack, and incorporate the passing of the Buster sword from Zack to Cloud. KH1 and KH2 seems to be saying that Cloud may has spent a period of time exposed to darkness in some form. Perhaps he could have spent a short time in the RoD? And of course, where there's Cloud, there's going to be Sephiroth.
 

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I am very excited about this game. Maybe getting to see the fall of RG, Mickey and Aqua's time in RoD. Some stuff with Riku we do not know about yet. Seeing a little more about Roxas/Xion would be kind of cool. Idk about the time-span, so yeah. But I am gonna go crazy when we start to get news.
 

.Oji

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What I would like to see just for the fun of it, is more Zack, and incorporate the passing of the Buster sword from Zack to Cloud. KH1 and KH2 seems to be saying that Cloud may has spent a period of time exposed to darkness in some form. Perhaps he could have spent a short time in the RoD? And of course, where there's Cloud, there's going to be Sephiroth.

They really should make an earnest effort to flesh out whatever is going on between these characters; no more ambiguity, be as clear and succinct as possible about what's going on. Sephy was apparently regarded as a hero at one time or another, then he vanishes for whatever reason to god knows where. He has something to do with Cloud and the darkness within himself, and Zack who vanishes later on, etc., etc. He was good before, presumably like his Crisis Core self; I want to see what this face heel turn is all about if there is one. Then we have this Tifa nonsense, and blah blah blah.

And Leon―we're going to be calling him Squall in this game, I believe. I want to see the events that led him to change his name, Squall, which he sees as a little kid who wasn't strong enough to... save his home world? To save someone in particular? :/

(On an unrelated note, nice avatar. Just saw the movie yesterday; quite good, surprisingly.)
 

localorange

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They really should make an earnest effort to flesh out whatever is going on between these characters; no more ambiguity, be as clear and succinct as possible about what's going on. Sephy was apparently regarded as a hero at one time or another, then he vanishes for whatever reason to god knows where. He has something to do with Cloud and the darkness within himself, and Zack who vanishes later on, etc., etc. He was good before, presumably like his Crisis Core self; I want to see what this face heel turn is all about if there is one. Then we have this Tifa nonsense, and blah blah blah.

And Leon―we're going to be calling him Squall in this game, I believe. I want to see the events that led him to change his name, Squall, which he sees as a little kid who wasn't strong enough to... save his home world? To save someone in particular? :/

(On an unrelated note, nice avatar. Just saw the movie yesterday; quite good, surprisingly.)

I absolutely agree with you on all counts, especially since Nomura has said in his interviews that it was indeed Sephiroth that Zack was referring to in BBS (as the "hero" person that he wants to be like).

Speaking of Squall - I've recently completed a oneshot that deals with the Fall of Radiant Garden. I hinted that one of the core reasons that Squall changed his name to Leon was because he lost his girlfriend Rinoa to the darkness. He saw it, and was powerless to stop it. I mean, he's got red (or white?) wings on the back of his bomber jacket in KH, so I thought that could be a probable answer. And then of course the credits in KH2 where Leon is reading a letter with pink butterfly wings flying out of it indicates that Rinoa could have survived. And I did the math; Leon/Squall would have been roughly 16 when Radiant Garden fell if he's 25 in KH1 (which is what KH wikia said).

Tifa utterly confuses me, but my attitude at this point is "whatever." I recognize that in the FFVII series, Tifa/Cloud is pretty much canon. But I was never the biggest fan of Tifa, so seeing that she's essentially a non-entity in KH suits me just fine, XDDD.

I'm also writing a BBSv2 story at the moment, and because all of the lack of FF character plot development annoyed me, I'm trying to include it in.

About my avatar: Thanks! =) The movie surprised me as well. I very much enjoyed it.
 

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On the subject of Xemnas and Ansem, this is how I understand it:

Terranort's heart is MX and Terra's hearts merged into 1 heart.

This merged heart became XH. But since MX's influence is greater than Terra's, XH takes more characteristics from MX.

Xemnas being the body and soul of Terra takes more characteristics from Terra. But since MX was still part of Terranort's heart, Xemnas took some influence from him too (White hair, tan skin, yellow eyes, lust for power, hand gestures, ect.)

I think worlds that were consumed by the heartless will appear in the dark realm in BBS2. I'm expecting Mickey's scenario to take place in both the realm of light and the dark realm. And Aqua's scenario will take place mostly in the dark realm. I also think there will be a Riku scenario covering all the periods of his absence through out the series.

EDIT: I forgot that Eraqus' heart is inside of Terra's. So about the Terranort's heart thing, it's basicaly what I said but Eraqus gets added into the mix as well. (I really think Eraqus being a part of this was unnecessary, I like the guy but his death was good enough, I liked him as the master that was struck down.)

Oh, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that the ME part of Xemnas is just a cop-out.

I remember reading in an interview some time ago though that Nomura views Xemnas as an 'emotionless Terra', so...


I absolutely agree with you on all counts, especially since Nomura has said in his interviews that it was indeed Sephiroth that Zack was referring to in BBS (as the "hero" person that he wants to be like).

Speaking of Squall - I've recently completed a oneshot that deals with the Fall of Radiant Garden. I hinted that one of the core reasons that Squall changed his name to Leon was because he lost his girlfriend Rinoa to the darkness. He saw it, and was powerless to stop it. I mean, he's got red (or white?) wings on the back of his bomber jacket in KH, so I thought that could be a probable answer. And then of course the credits in KH2 where Leon is reading a letter with pink butterfly wings flying out of it indicates that Rinoa could have survived. And I did the math; Leon/Squall would have been roughly 16 when Radiant Garden fell if he's 25 in KH1 (which is what KH wikia said).

Tifa utterly confuses me, but my attitude at this point is "whatever." I recognize that in the FFVII series, Tifa/Cloud is pretty much canon. But I was never the biggest fan of Tifa, so seeing that she's essentially a non-entity in KH suits me just fine, XDDD.

I'm also writing a BBSv2 story at the moment, and because all of the lack of FF character plot development annoyed me, I'm trying to include it in.

About my avatar: Thanks! =) The movie surprised me as well. I very much enjoyed it.

You know, that would make sense, since in FFVIII, Squall and Rinoa were both 17 years old, so their predicted age during the Fall of Radiant Garden isn't too far from their actual ages in FFVIII.
 

rac7d

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we need to see when mickey met leon it has to be before maleficent took over
 

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I would love to see a Aqua and a Mickey scenario, they coulddo like they did with the last Ratchet and Clank, like playing with Aqua and then changing into Mickey and vice versa so that we could see at the sme time what is happening. But i would prfer 3 charavters thougt.
I don't know but i would love to have a scenario with a new character that was under Maleficent's orders between bbs and 1, he was killed or something like that on the begining of kh1 and then maleficent could use riku to do the rest pf the job the other characte was doing,.. It's and idea though, what do you think?
 

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Wait is BBS v2 the mystery game we were waiting for or is that still...well a mystery? It is suppose to include a new main character isnt it?

Anyways on topic I've never been very open to a mickey scenario. I want his story told but honestly if I play kingdom hearts I want to play as a kingdom hearts original character. Its the hole reason I'm there, frankly though If this game doesn't include a riku scenario I'll face palm my forehead back into my brain. That is the biggest plot hole we have so far...I mean where the fuck did he get not one but TWO keyblades! And what is all this shit about him being the hero and sora keeping him on his path...need answers please.
 

Sign

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we need to see when mickey met leon it has to be before maleficent took over

I find it more likely that he met him shortly before he entered one of Traverse Town's naturally spawning Corridors of Darkness than when he was still a kid/young teen.
 
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