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Regarding Master Xehanort



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Saken

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No. And Xehanort isn't "badass" (I have a serious distaste for that word, mostly because people keep throwing it around everywhere), just completely off his rocker.

I assume you only say that because i mentioned Lea
*looks at dp :O
 

Memory Master

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With regards to everyone believing Xehanort will actually succeed in completing Kingdom Hearts, the real one that is, and form one huge world to start another Keyblade War, I agree. I think the series has been hinting that Kingdom Hearts will finally return and all worlds will become one again. Remember that Kairi's grandmother mentioned that tale that the true light will one day be opened and all worlds will become one again; this is obviously a reference to the light of Kingdom Hearts still consumed by darkness from the Keyblade War.

I think Xehanort's defeat will once again be ironic in the fact that this Keyblade War, as opposed to the first one, which released an excess amount of darkness, will have the opposite effect due to the seven light's influence. I believe that light will pour our out from the war and reorganize the worlds into one single existence; this would also completely destroy the heartless once and for all as Yen Sid said as long as Kingdom Harts remains taken by the darkness, then every world will still have darkness and if everyone's heart was filled with light, then heartless will be eradicated once and for all.

I also think this would be the perfect setting to start the next phase of the series. Xehanort is destroyed along with the heartless and nobodies, but now there is a whole new existence made from the opening of the one, true, Kingdom Hearts. Who knows, Xehanort might succeed halfway through the game and complete Kingdom Hearts and all worlds and the War will take up the second half of the game. That would definitely make the game a unique entry in the series, though I wonder just how violent Nomura is willing to go this time.

If that happened with all the worlds becoming one again and darkness and heartless go bye bye then what exactly would be the point of the next saga? You'd basically have the end of the series.

I think Xehanort will complete the X-Blade and the true complete KH will be summoned back to the realm of light and MX will get really really close to finally starting a second war but he will be defeated, however some things will happen that causes changes and shifts in the current order of the universe. Certain laws of the universe will be changed, a change will take place in the heartless and nobodies, and the worlds will undergo a type of change. This will make the next saga different from the Xehanort saga. But it still wont bring everything back to what it was before the Keyblade War. In fact things will probably get worse because of the changes that may occur.

I'm interested in what Nomura has in mind for the next main villain for the new saga. He said he already had an idea and basic infastructure for the next saga so he must have some idea in mind for what he wants the next main villain to be like. To think there will be someone even worse than Xehanort. *Shudders in fear*
 

thedarkness

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Why in the world would the series have to end just because the most used and common enemy is finally destroyed? Just because the common enemies are done in the series does not mean there won't be new threats rising. I would like to think that the heartless, nobodies, and Xehanort are unique to the Xehanort Saga and the next one will have brand new enemies. I think that for the next phase, there needs to be a new enemy to keep the series more refreshing and also give a real sense of accomplishment for the the first part by finally getting rid of the entities that were plaguing the worlds for what would be at least five (since unversed were in BBS and dream eaters in DDD) games.

Believing that the series cannot function without darkness or heartless is all the more reason to continue in that direction because it will be a very surprising development in the series that not many thought could be done. Perhaps in the next phase, creatures of light (we've had creatures of darkness and in between so far after all) are threatening the existence of the world. It would be a very nice spin to the whole "light always equals good" cliche and have a deep theme in that even light can be misused for evil the same way that darkness can be used for good.

Xehanort was a practitioner of darkness so why not have a new main villain who is a practitioner of light and has created creatures of such in a diluted mission to make sure darkness never rises again. Master Eraqus already gave us a glimpse on how the perception that light is absolute can lead to brutal and even murderous actions, even towards those he cared for as if they were his own sons. I could imagine a villain instigating a "witch hunt" for lack of a better phrase in which he or she is desperately hunting down and getting rid of anyone he or she feels might disrupt the balance of light. I think that would be compelling and a nice change from Xehanort since this villain is embracing the polar, opposite methodologies.

I do not agree at all that the series has to end simply because the heartless go away, if that indeed does happen; there are plenty of creative and imaginative ways to make further conflicts without them. If fans can come up with such ways, Nomura should have no trouble at all. This is the true art and challenge in making unique story-lines; making them go in directions no one could really have predicted where everything just clicks and works. To not go in directions simply because they do not seem possible would eliminate some of the best stories in all of media and Kingdom Hearts as well.
 

skyfoxx

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As long as it's not as anticlimactic as Voldemort's death from the 7th Harry Potter movie. GOSH, that was so disappointing. "This villain who has been ruining everyone's lives and threatens the destruction of all the worlds... and he just dissolves into paper bits and nobody says a word about it." Then again, Voldemort in general just didn't seem that threatening at all. Luckily though, KH3D made Xehanort one of the most threatening villains ever as far as just how far he'll go to attain his goal so I trust that the end of the Xehanort Saga would be a good one.
 

Memory Master

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Why in the world would the series have to end just because the most used and common enemy is finally destroyed? Just because the common enemies are done in the series does not mean there won't be new threats rising. I would like to think that the heartless, nobodies, and Xehanort are unique to the Xehanort Saga and the next one will have brand new enemies. I think that for the next phase, there needs to be a new enemy to keep the series more refreshing and also give a real sense of accomplishment for the the first part by finally getting rid of the entities that were plaguing the worlds for what would be at least five (since unversed were in BBS and dream eaters in DDD) games.

Believing that the series cannot function without darkness or heartless is all the more reason to continue in that direction because it will be a very surprising development in the series that not many thought could be done. Perhaps in the next phase, creatures of light (we've had creatures of darkness and in between so far after all) are threatening the existence of the world. It would be a very nice spin to the whole "light always equals good" cliche and have a deep theme in that even light can be misused for evil the same way that darkness can be used for good.

Xehanort was a practitioner of darkness so why not have a new main villain who is a practitioner of light and has created creatures of such in a diluted mission to make sure darkness never rises again. Master Eraqus already gave us a glimpse on how the perception that light is absolute can lead to brutal and even murderous actions, even towards those he cared for as if they were his own sons. I could imagine a villain instigating a "witch hunt" for lack of a better phrase in which he or she is desperately hunting down and getting rid of anyone he or she feels might disrupt the balance of light. I think that would be compelling and a nice change from Xehanort since this villain is embracing the polar, opposite methodologies.

I do not agree at all that the series has to end simply because the heartless go away, if that indeed does happen; there are plenty of creative and imaginative ways to make further conflicts without them. If fans can come up with such ways, Nomura should have no trouble at all. This is the true art and challenge in making unique story-lines; making them go in directions no one could really have predicted where everything just clicks and works. To not go in directions simply because they do not seem possible would eliminate some of the best stories in all of media and Kingdom Hearts as well.

Darkness isn't evil and Light isn't good. This has been established in the series since Chain of Memories. We've seen MX use darkness for evil and Riku use it for good.

Just getting rid of the heartless and the nobodies and replacing them with some new enemies is just silly IMO. The heartless have existed as long as darkness has existed in the human hearts. To eliminate the heartless you have to fix it to where darkness does not exist in a single heart. The problem with that is that darkness is easily created in a heart.

Let's say they do make things like they were before the Keyblade War and all hearts are filled with light. Eventually some group is going to fear the return of darkness and this fear will eventually lead to darkness being born in their hearts, and with that comes the return of the heartless.

As such the heartless will exist as long as the series continues probably. They are the main enemy group of the entire series. They existed long before the time frame of the Xehanort saga and will likely exist after it.

I seperate KH enemy groups into two tiers. Side Enemies and Main Enemies. The Side Enemy group includes Unversed and Dream Eaters. Enemies that are not constants in the series and really have no large scale affect on the series. They are simply there as replacements when the main enemies cannot appear in a game for whatever reason. The main enemy group of course includes Heartless and Nobodies, as they are the most important enemies.

Heartless represent the realm of darkness and Nobodies represent the realm of inbetween. Whole Beings are the ones who reside in the realm of light. Yes I think we need an enemy from the side of light but not just some incarnation of light. I think it should be something along the lines of creatures born when a heartless and a lesser nobody reunite, but because they lack the will and strength of the humanoid nobodies, these reformed beings do not become human but instead become monsters. These monsters are whole beings but are not human. As such they would be realm of light enemies.

Now I think the main enemy category should only consists of 3 types of enemies, each representing the 3 realms. Any more than that is just stretching it.

Instead of creating a brand new main enemy group in the next saga to replace the old ones, just cause changes in the heartless and nobodies natures and existence leading to many possibilities to make the heartless and nobodies fresh and exciting in the next saga. Heck these changes to the nature of the worlds, the heartless, the nobodies, and the realms could be the reason behind the ride of the next saga's main villain.

As long as it's not as anticlimactic as Voldemort's death from the 7th Harry Potter movie. GOSH, that was so disappointing. "This villain who has been ruining everyone's lives and threatens the destruction of all the worlds... and he just dissolves into paper bits and nobody says a word about it." Then again, Voldemort in general just didn't seem that threatening at all. Luckily though, KH3D made Xehanort one of the most threatening villains ever as far as just how far he'll go to attain his goal so I trust that the end of the Xehanort Saga would be a good one.

This is why I have said that Voldemort, Aizen, and Palpatine aint got shit on Xehanort.
 

thedarkness

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I know that darkness is not evil and light is not good; I never made such a claim that they were, just that it was a stereotype and cliche that has been present throughout media, but I know that doesn't make it so. This is why I believe it would be an interesting concept to see light be used as an asset and an exploitation for a force of evil. We haven't really seen such a concept within the series thus far; we have been given glimpses of how it can lead one down a twisted path, but so far, not to the extent that it threatens the worlds. If there were a new villain that used the power of light for evil, that would be a challenge that the heroes have never had to really go up against. We're so accustomed to light against darkness that light against light could be a very interesting plot device for future installments.

As for the heartless always being present, you are right so I agree with you there, but in BBS it seems they can only can be summoned into the realm of light and do not actually exist outside the dark realm. There could be a similar plot device in future installments where the heartless aren't necessarily destroyed, but can no longer roam around the worlds on their own accord. My main argument here is that heartless are not necessary to continue the series as there are plenty of alternative routs to turn to. I agree that it wouldn't make particular sense for them to simply not exist anywhere, but the series can still make a new enemy the more dominant one. I just don't believe that the series has to rely on one specific type of enemy to continue as there is still so many other story arcs that haven't even been tapped yet even if that enemy no longer appears, regardless if they don't exist or not in one realm or another.
 

Memory Master

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I know that darkness is not evil and light is not good; I never made such a claim that they were, just that it was a stereotype and cliche that has been present throughout media, but I know that doesn't make it so. This is why I believe it would be an interesting concept to see light be used as an asset and an exploitation for a force of evil. We haven't really seen such a concept within the series thus far; we have been given glimpses of how it can lead one down a twisted path, but so far, not to the extent that it threatens the worlds. If there were a new villain that used the power of light for evil, that would be a challenge that the heroes have never had to really go up against. We're so accustomed to light against darkness that light against light could be a very interesting plot device for future installments.

As for the heartless always being present, you are right so I agree with you there, but in BBS it seems they can only can be summoned into the realm of light and do not actually exist outside the dark realm. There could be a similar plot device in future installments where the heartless aren't necessarily destroyed, but can no longer roam around the worlds on their own accord. My main argument here is that heartless are not necessary to continue the series as there are plenty of alternative routs to turn to. I agree that it wouldn't make particular sense for them to simply not exist anywhere, but the series can still make a new enemy the more dominant one. I just don't believe that the series has to rely on one specific type of enemy to continue as there is still so many other story arcs that haven't even been tapped yet even if that enemy no longer appears, regardless if they don't exist or not in one realm or another.

And i'm not arguing having a main villain use light for evil isn't a good idea. It is, but it has to be done right. What i'm saying is that the heartless and nobodies don't have to go away, and the realm doesn't have to be like it was before the keyblade war, in order to have a villain use light for evil.

And as for a new enemy type replacing the heartless and nobodies, it's just my personal opinion that I think they shouldn't do that because it's just seems so unnecessary. The series is called "Kingdom Hearts" so having an enemy called "Heartless" just seems right. I think we should add one more main enemy, one of light, and then leave the main enemy type category to just Heartless, Nobodies, and Light enemy type. Work with those three enemy groups in the next saga. Expand on them, change them in unique ways. That is more creative than moving them out of the way so a new random main enemy type can appear.

Oh and the heartless MX summoned in BBS were drawn out from the darkness in Ven's heart. Pureblood heartless are literally darkness of the heart given form. People well versed in the power of darkness can manipulate the darkness in summons heart to summon purebloods.

The purebloods that naturally occured were trapped in the realm of darkness since the end of the Keyblade War when the 7 hearts of pure light banished the darkness that covered the realm of light. When Xehanort and Ansem's other apprentices began experimenting on the heart it caused heartless to be mass produced like crazy in the realm of light. This caused a shift in the balance between light and darkness which I assume caused the wall between the realm of light and darkness to weaken enough for some purebloods from teh dark realm to seap through. This is why purebloods are far more common in worlds closer to the realm of darkness and are far fewer in the realm of light, where as emblems are more common in the realm of light than they are in the realm in between where worlds are closer to the dark realm.
 

thedarkness

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I am aware of the nature of the heartless and how they were mass produced within the Realm of Light by Xehanort's experiments. I was just pointing out that they were not a real threat in BBS and it was only after Xehanort's exploits into the working of a human heart and the darkness within that the heartless truly became a real threat to all the worlds. Therefore, heartless do not necessarily have to be the primary enemy and there could be other examples of how hearts can be misused for other nefarious designs.

I understand your points on the redundancy of creating a realm similar to the one prior to the outbreak of the Keyblade War as well as replacing the heartless and nobodies. I'm not going to begrudge you there because that is your opinion and I respect it. I just believe that if the series moves in such a direction, it would be interesting, at least to me.

That's all I was saying and I defiantly agree with you that it must be done right, but then again, most well developed stories must be done right and Kingdom Hearts has proven that it does a great amount of story arcs right. They get a little shaky in areas, but overall, Nomura does a good job with the story and I believe this could be a direction he could make work very well. I know there will be fans who will despise such a concept, but there will probably be others who would like a new enemy and a fresh setting. Like I said though, that is simply my opinion. I understand your opinion and respect it, but I guess that's what this really all boils down to; a matter of opinion.
 

Gexus

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I'm thinking it's Lea who will have to do something, sacrificing himself in some way to contain Xehanort. Always stuck doing the icky jobs.
 

Marx15

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I'm thinking it's Lea who will have to do something, sacrificing himself in some way to contain Xehanort. Always stuck doing the icky jobs.

I can't see Lea doing that.....but I can see Terra doing that. He is on Xehanort's side, so in an attempt to redeem himself and save his friends, he'll sacrifice himself to finally put an end to Xehanort. Terra could probably feel guilty (or violated.....) for all the things Xehanort has done with his body.
 

Shoxir

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I can't see Lea doing that.....but I can see Terra doing that. He is on Xehanort's side, so in an attempt to redeem himself and save his friends, he'll sacrifice himself to finally put an end to Xehanort. Terra could probably feel guilty (or violated.....) for all the things Xehanort has done with his body.

Yeah, we all know the first thing Xehanort did with Terra's body. It's sad, but that's the world we live in (not literally. If it was literal, that would be awesome, my keyblade would look like a mixture of a shark from shark week and Ms Swan from Madtv. And like, my gummi ship would be a mixture of a rock and a keyblade but in a gummi ship, only it can't fly. The only way to make it fly is to answer trivia questions regarding bad television dramas, and I mean really bad ones, I saw this one drama at the auto shop the other day while waiting for a flat tire to be fixed, my phone was dead and all I could do was watch this bad drama, and this old chick was in a hospital bed and this one guy was in jail but the other guy killed a guy but the jury said he was innocent? I don't know, it was really weird). If Terra sacrifices himself, it would be something like what Riku did at the end of KH with the whole being sealed in Mr. Big Door Guy. Also elves.
 

LMNOP

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WHAT IF...

All the Seven Lights die at the end of KH3 because they have to sacrifce themselves to stop Xehanort.

Now that would be somewhat disappointing to everyone haha.

Itd also never happen. but WHAT IF...
 

Shoxir

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WHAT IF...

All the Seven Lights die at the end of KH3 because they have to sacrifce themselves to stop Xehanort.

Now that would be somewhat disappointing to everyone haha.

Itd also never happen. but WHAT IF...

More disappointing? If they do it at the beginning of KH 3. Like, after the tutorial, everyone sacrifices themselves. I can see that happening.
 

Chuman

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The real (I mean real) Kingdom Hearts should be summoned by the Xehanorts in an attempt to reach his goals, but the seven wielders summon its real power and destroy him.
 

LMNOP

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Id like the fights to be somewhat like the Organization in KH3 fight one at the end of certain worlds but because they have to fight at "The Fated Place"(Keyblade Graveyard) or atleast that is what is believed.

Im just ready to play KH3 only 2-5 more years left.
 
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