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Return of fun boss fights?



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Antar

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First thing I want to say is, this is my opinion. I know that many of you won't agree with me, but this is just how I feel. Also I'm new here so if you can, go easy on me :/

Intro:
I played almost every Kingdom Hearts game. The only ones I didn't pass were Dream Drop Distance (I never got to purchase it) and Chain of Memories. I did watch a whole walkthrough on DDD, though, to be updated and I am currently working on Re:Com in KH1.5. One thing that bothered me, though, were the boss fights.

In the first Kingdom Hearts I enjoyed many of its bosses (screw you Ursula). The fights were interesting, and they all had a different and fun technique of beating them. They had a good pace and gave you time to learn their attacks and develop a strategy. But I have noticed, slowly, the games have been leaning more towards a different style of boss fights. Fights like against Riku. When I first got to Hollow bastion and I had to fight Riku in the Grand Hall, it was something different. I had fun avoiding his attacks and it was tense. This type of fight was sort of used only once.

My Little Issue:
The problem is, now, too many battles are like that. Too many battles are just a flat plane where the enemy just constantly rushes you with attacks. They seem like they are all the same but with different moves. And yes, I know, not every battle is like that, but too many of them are. Personally when I fight them, I don't enjoy it and they are not at all fun for me. I do feel like I achieved something when I beat them and it's rewarding, but the actual battle is just not entertaining. This is mostly seen with enemies that are small, like humans, but I feel that it is not an excuse. Boss fights like Oogie Boogie, Demyx, Pete, Ansem, and Captain Hook, show that "small" doesn't mean "insane speed attack spamfest". Also, take a look at the secret boss battles in the first Kingdom Hearts game. Now compare them to the ones in the latest games. Even a large secret boss like Julius ended up being a spamfest.

Conclusion:
A possible and likely explanation to this could be the hardware limitations. Most of these boss fights are located on the handhelds so that could explain some of it. The handhelds probably can't handle large Final bosses/regular bosses, so they have to resort to smaller sizes. But on the other hand, they could always handle the fight differently and make it more different and unique. So I really hope Kingdom Hearts 3 will have much more improved bosses and it seems like it will as seen in the trailer with the Rock Titan. So, um, I'm sorry for the rant but I just wanted to start a conversation and see what people think about this.

And don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the handheld games (THEY ARE NOT SPINOFFS!). Birth By Sleep is probably my favorite of the series and I even liked 358/2 days unlike a lot of other people >.>

EDIT: Added some headings to make it more easy on the eyes. That damn wall-o-text!
 

Loxdani

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Very well put together. I felt like a high school english reading teacher grading a paper. A+ lol.
I completely agree with you. Since the very first game when I beat the optional bosses for the first time I wondered why not all boss battles were complex in strategy like them. The story line bosses to me they focus so much on pushing the story forward that they forget to make it challenging. Case and point Port Royal everyone complains of how it has not connection to the main story but the bosses are full of strategy and more than just button smashing. Leave the hack and slash to the everyday, run of the mill heartless/unverse/nobody/nightmare/whateverelsethatmaycome the bosses should be more exciting.
 
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axel95

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Welcome to KHI!!!! Enjoy your time here, because you will NEVER, EVER leave. Have fun!

On to the topic, I agree. Since KH2, the games as a whole have not been that challenging. I don't expect a Final Fantasy level game, but they can do better! I think that DDD was a step in the right direction. Critical mode is a BEAST in that game. I just wish that it was unlocked from the get-go.
 

Antar

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Very well put together. I felt like a high school english reading teacher grading a paper. A+ lol.
I completely agree with you. Since the very first game when I beat the optional bosses for the first time I wondered why not all boss battles were complex in strategy like them. The story line bosses to me they focus so much on pushing the story forward that they forget to make it challenging. Case and point Port Royal everyone complains of how it has not connection to the main story but the bosses are full of strategy and more than just button smashing. Leave the hack and slash to the everyday, run of the mill heartless/unverse/nobody/nightmare/whateverelsethatmaycome the bosses should be more exciting.
Haha, thank you! I too enjoyed the Port Royal Boss fight with the Reaper. The story may not have been that great in KH2 (there are plenty of other topics on that) but I still had a ton of fun playing it. The Earthshaker, or was it Groundshaker was awesome, too. May be I just have a thing for large sized bosses?

Welcome to KHI!!!! Enjoy your time here, because you will NEVER, EVER leave. Have fun!

On to the topic, I agree. Since KH2, the games as a whole have not been that challenging. I don't expect a Final Fantasy level game, but they can do better! I think that DDD was a step in the right direction. Critical mode is a BEAST in that game. I just wish that it was unlocked from the get-go.
As long as the KH series goes on, I don't plan to leave! And even then I will stay a bit longer! I can't guarantee I'll be active here, though :( But thanks for being so nice :3
I'm not sure about the Boss fights in DDD, though. Like I said, Julius in my opinion was a badly done boss fight. It was just constant attack spam.
 

axel95

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As long as the KH series goes on, I don't plan to leave! And even then I will stay a bit longer! I can't guarantee I'll be active here, though :( But thanks for being so nice :3
I'm not sure about the Boss fights in DDD, though. Like I said, Julius in my opinion was a badly done boss fight. It was just constant attack spam.
I haven't always been active here either, so it's all good! And you are most definitely welcome! I'm not 100% made up about the DDD boss fights. I was talking more about all-around difficulty.
 

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I recently replayed Kingdom Hearts 1 on proud and I can honestly say there really isn't a ton of nessesary strategy in the main story. Each and every boss is nothing more than an endurance round in which you try to hack the boss's life bar down to zero before you run out of ethers. The little strategy the little strategy that does exist boils down to timed rolls. I love the game to death, but reminiscing about how challenging the games used to be is a little silly when, with the exception of KHII, the difficulty has remained static.
 

Antar

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I recently replayed Kingdom Hearts 1 on proud and I can honestly say there really isn't a ton of nessesary strategy in the main story. Each and every boss is nothing more than an endurance round in which you try to hack the boss's life bar down to zero before you run out of ethers. The little strategy the little strategy that does exist boils down to timed rolls. I love the game to death, but reminiscing about how challenging the games used to be is a little silly when, with the exception of KHII, the difficulty has remained static.
That may be true but I was talking about the fun in battles, not the challenge. A good example (at least for me) would be the Grim Reaper in KH2. The enemy didn't constantly wail on you without pausing. You had to collect medallions through various ways so you could deal damage to him. I feel this made the battle more interesting and not like a direct replica of the other fights.
More unique fights = more fun?
 

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I recently replayed Kingdom Hearts 1 on proud and I can honestly say there really isn't a ton of nessesary strategy in the main story. Each and every boss is nothing more than an endurance round in which you try to hack the boss's life bar down to zero before you run out of ethers. The little strategy the little strategy that does exist boils down to timed rolls. I love the game to death, but reminiscing about how challenging the games used to be is a little silly when, with the exception of KHII, the difficulty has remained static.
In KH1's defence, it's the first game in the series, which is why probably they didn't include many plotline-relevant bosses with a specific strategy to beat. However, all the optional bosses to me were fun, with Phantom high up on the list together with Xemnas if FM is to be included. If you think you can just whack the heck out of them, you'd better be prepared to get your butt handed to you on a silver platter.

KH2 is more adventurous with regards to this. As Antar mentioned, there's at least the Grim Reaper. The fight with Luxord was also interesting and enjoyable due to his lack of HP bar and the fact that it's more like a game than battle, reflective of his nature, and the same can be said with Demyx and his goodness-forsaken water forms. And if those aren't enough, the Absent Silhouettes or Replica Data fights of the CoM crew have interesting mechanics that prevents them from being smash-'em-all kind of fight.
 

Antilurker77

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Grim Reaper was one of the worst bosses in KH2. His first form was a giant punching bag, and his second form was just tedious yet extremely easy.

I don't really understand your complaint. Are you upset that there aren't more gimmicky bosses? Why would bosses with more attacks and more complicated AI be less fun?
 

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A vast majority of the community.
Sad, but true. Not only here in KHI, but from what I've seen online and offline, also among the KH fanbase in general.

Although I'm disregarding those who dislike Days for being a non-numbered title. They'd say the same thing about everything not KH1, KH2, or KH3.
 

Jotari

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I honestly find that baffling. I'll just blame the panel system for it.
 

Antar

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Grim Reaper was one of the worst bosses in KH2. His first form was a giant punching bag, and his second form was just tedious yet extremely easy.

I don't really understand your complaint. Are you upset that there aren't more gimmicky bosses? Why would bosses with more attacks and more complicated AI be less fun?
Gimmicky? Well, you could put it that way. But new bosses don't have more attacks and better AI. Most new bosses are like the Riku fight in the Great Hall. Flat plane where the enemy keeps pummeling you with attakcs nonstop. Those battles have nothing to do with "more attacks and better ai" since all you do is constantly dodge and sneak in a few hits once in a while. With the Grim Reaper, I was referring to the second form. I thought it was great, I liked the his design and the fight was fun. It had a unique way of defeating it instead of being a Riku fight replica. Also I'm not saying the Riku fight was bad. I thought is was super fun, but when so many battles start using that format, it's just not he same.

I honestly find that baffling. I'll just blame the panel system for it.
But but but, the panel system was one of my favorite parts :(
 

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They all come down to beating the crap out of something continuously. Although in KH1, I'll admit that it's the first game so it was really just something we never saw before. I mean being able to be underwater fighting Ursula, chasing Iago for Jafar's lamp, trapped by Oogie Boogie, or flying around with Peter Pan - it was all new and different. My only issue really was that they were too easy to beat.

In KH2 the difficulty just wasn't there (except for Xaldin). That fight with the reaper was annoying, it wasn't very fun. I haven't played KH II in a while, but fights that stand out to me are Xemnas (of course), Xaldin, Mulan (the flying heartless), the Chandelier thing in Beast's Castle, Ursula, Scar and the giant heartless in Pride Lands, Oogie Boogie, MCP, Luxord, Demyx... I enjoyed a lot of the fights I guess, if they were harder then I wouldn't have a problem at all.

I do agree that some bosses may need more than just running up to them and beating them up (specifically the DISNEY world ones), but people like Riku aren't all thematic and require some huge gimmick, plus the Dark Aura was enough to make me want to just run up to him and beat him as fast as possible.
 

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The panel system is hardly the problem with Days.
Indeed, the panel system doesn't hold a candle against how the game was handled (repetitive mission mode) and most of all, Xion when it comes to Days dislike factor.

I liked Days, though, even though I admit the game can sometimes be tedious due to its repetitiveness. I'm a sucker for friendship stories, so I enjoyed the plot, and Xion's pretty chill to me. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, right? :p

But I digress.
 

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What made the panel system, namely, fail to me was it was so constricted by level panels. Hardly left any room.
 

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I liked Days. Was it repetitive? To a certain degree. But I liked the dynamic team system and since I'm a completionist at heart I loved getting all the emblems and rewards from the missions.
Back to the topic. Someone mentioned that challenging is not fun but to me the more frustrated I get the more it drives me to change my tactic and beat a boss. To be challenging doesn't have to mean that the boss can kill you wit one hit (although the moments when Sephiroth drains your life and you have to heal yourself before he kills you made my heart race the first time). Challenging doesn't have to mean that the boss is uber stronger than you are but a boss that forces you to change tactic to more effectively deal with it. The Reaper with the coins forced the player to not resort to hack and slash all the time.
 

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Plain fights and gimmick fights are both fun in their own right. The only real problem is we seem to be getting to many of one and not enough of the other. The truth is diversity is good and we should get an satisfying amount of both. I think that's something we can all agree on.

Along with the fact that 358/2 Days has the best writing in the series.
 
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