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Riku vs Roxas



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Sephiroth0812

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The first fight would be their in-game duel at the end of days.
The second fight would be during the cinematic afterwards.

At least that's how I see it. They had a short run-in at the beginning of days but since Riku never attacked you can't count that as a real fight.
That's most likely how it is meant to be understood in the current canon of the series. Strictly spoken Riku and Roxas do fight twice (possibly even thrice) in short order. Some may count this as one fight having several rounds but it may also be interpreted as several fights directly coming after each other.
Roxas even says something along the lines of "how often do I have to beat you?" which made Riku realize that by fighting "fair" he would never win, hence then turning cheat-mode on in the form of "Ansem SoD+Guardian"-power up.

And I suppose it makes sense that Soul Eater ins't Way to the Dawn, because wasn't the wooden Keyblade Ven's intermediary weapon? And that certainly didn't turn into Wayward Wind for him, so it's only logical that Soul Eater wouldn't break the rules and turn into a Keyblade.

The only odd one out here seems to be Roxas, as the stick he used in II really did seem to turn into Kingdom Key, but meh.

You know, this whole thing is a plot point I wished Nomura explored more. It always seemed like he had meant to, but then he just kind of dropped it.

And this is getting WAY off topic and I apologize, guys.
Err no, the wooden Keyblade is/was a toy crafted by Terra which was then gifted to Ventus. It does not have any powers or special characteristics except the sentimental value Ven himself places on it nor is it in any way related to the Wayward Wind.
Ven already had Wayward Wind even as a child while training under Xehanort as seen in the Flashback with the Heartless.

The context is important here as all this happened in the digital Twilight Town, hence why the "stick" was used as an intermediary due to DiZ/Naminé programming it that way. It's not really a real stick that functions as an intermediary for the Kingdom Key itself.

The mere fact that Riku can still summon both Soul Eater and Way to the Dawn independent from each other implies though that while the sword has indeed been served as a "template" for the Way to Dawn to come into being it is not a Keyblade itself.
How exactly Riku got chosen by the Way to Dawn and how it came into being is however truly a still unexplored mystery.
 

DarkosOverlord

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You know what I never understood? When Riku said to Sora that he had fought Roxas and lost, but the next time they met he made sure he was the stronger one. When was this first encounter? As far as I can remember, Riku only fought Roxas once. Is this a translation error where Roxas won against Riku in the first part of the fight? Then Riku won when he became Ansem.
This has already been answered, however it is weird, even with the "the two matches counts as two times".
I, THINK, it could've been that at the time of KH II there was no knowledge that the two fights happened in the same time and place. Even Ansem the Wise, when talking about that, uses a strange contraption, "He fought against Roxas. And I can only assume he lost."
So, everything strongly hinted at them fighting, Riku losing, pause where Riku realizes what he must do, them fighitng again, Riku winning (possibly even already transformed). I mean, Riku does say "The next time we met"; as a linguistic, I can confirm that's an improper way of putting it since you were already fighting, hence the first "meeting" was still happening.
"Next time we met" is literally incorrect and barely acceptable.

In the end, I think there was confusion during the recording of KH II. I don't know if Nomura himself didn't know how he would play that card in the future, or if the instrucionts for the VAs were unclear on that point, or who knows. Maybe the two matches were going to be a thing in Days, but ended up eing cut short and summarized into one.

(easily avoidable by replacing one of the countless unventful days with a mid-Riku encounter, hence my position on Days's plot and pacing being semi-garbage)
 

Hirokey123

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Really we have little evidence soul eater is actually a single thing. In fact the sheer fact it's form isn't set but instead the type of weapon it is could be completely changed implies it's not a single thing. Riku manifested a dark sword but Ansem manifested a double bladed halberd version of soul eater. It's again likely just the same as the Nobody weapons, a physical manifestation of his strong attribute which for him is darkness. Much like how Larxene can regenerate her knives after she throws them away, we regularly shatter Vexen's shield forcing him to make a new one, Zexion summons like 50 books, Axel could produce up to 4 chakrams at a time, Saix can make like at least 3 claymore at a time, and Xemmas could make as many ethereal blades as he wanted allowing him a dual blades or an infinite source of laser projectiles.

One soul eater became WttD, which word of God said that is why Riku still calls it soul eater during KH2 because he isn't used to it not being soul eater. Riku sticks to using that keyblade from now on what with it literally being better soul eater, but as long as he has darkness in his heart he can continue to produce soul eaters. That is why he summons it as a demonstration of his old dark path and the darkness that still grips him. Soul Eater is pretty much Riku just crafting darkness into what he is most familiar with, which for him was a small wooden sword so he made a small dark sword.

I mean there is the question on how he learned to do this, but I am not sure the answer is important. We know Ansem was stalking and communicating with Riku for a long time, he is fully trusting of him and never seems surprised by his appearances in KH1/Coded's memory of KH1. It also has the blue evil eye which is another sign he learned it from Xehanort and of course it also bears Xehanort's batwing motief as well. It would be nice to learn what event triggered WttD's manifestation though.
 

Griewer

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That's most likely how it is meant to be understood in the current canon of the series. Strictly spoken Riku and Roxas do fight twice (possibly even thrice) in short order. Some may count this as one fight having several rounds but it may also be interpreted as several fights directly coming after each other.
Roxas even says something along the lines of "how often do I have to beat you?" which made Riku realize that by fighting "fair" he would never win, hence then turning cheat-mode on in the form of "Ansem SoD+Guardian"-power up.
This is the part that always makes me angry because the way I see it if Riku wanted to kill Roxas he would've thrown Oblivion into his face and be done with it. Capturing Roxas "fairly" is a different thing, but really these cutscenes and the story connected to it is just written so badly it makes me rage every time I see it. :'D

Nomura y u do dis? T_T
 
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