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Politics Russia Invading Ukraine: what are we gonna do about it?



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Sonofjafar

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I know this is a really stupid place to ask this question but I don’t have that many outlets for speaking my mind on such matters on the internet. Just to review, Russia is currently invaded the capital of Ukraine and none of the democratic world powers can do much about it except impose sanctions on Russia and supply Ukraine with weapons and stuff. The only question now is how this is all going to end. At this point, I see three outcomes: do what we’re doing now and Putin will just keep invading with no fear of consequences, fight back and send a whole lot of people to die, or just blow up the world. If anyone else has any more positive options, please tell me them
 

Oracle Spockanort

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World leaders would need to actually sanction Russia properly, but it would only hurt the impoverished Russians and still probably wouldn’t stop Putin from his siege on Ukraine.

And the world isn’t going to go to war with Russia on this. Many western nations have already made it clear they have no plans on intervening.
 

2 quid is good

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Europe as a continent has been doing its level best for the last 70 years to avoid war (failing miserably with the former Yugoslavia but other than that they've managed). There is zero chance that any European leader other than some idiotic, jingoistic types will intervene, and that's truly sad, but if conventional warfare happens on the continent again it'll be because Putin would be dragging countries into it.

Which by the way, what a megalomaniacal show of force. A war, and for what purpose? Because you didn't want NATO on your doorstep? Congrats, now you share a border with NATO Poland. A former KGB man should never have been allowed anywhere near power, especially one as unhinged as him. Not even Russians support this war tbh.

As for sanctions, again, Putin has a lot of Europe by the bullhorns. Either through direct funding of the governing party such as in the case of the UK, or through gas pipelines, like Germany or the Netherlands. I still believe we should sanction Russia completely, even though it will definitely make our current cost of living crisis far worse, but I think that's a small price to pay, however, considering Boris Johnson is fanatically in love with Churchill, he's been a bit of a soft touch here.

It's depressing and I feel terribly for everyone directly impacted, however I also think it'll be over fairly soon because Russia as of now has already secured a direct connection to Kyiv, and the Ukrainian army in terms of numbers alone cannot really compare.
 

Sonofjafar

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Europe as a continent has been doing its level best for the last 70 years to avoid war (failing miserably with the former Yugoslavia but other than that they've managed). There is zero chance that any European leader other than some idiotic, jingoistic types will intervene, and that's truly sad, but if conventional warfare happens on the continent again it'll be because Putin would be dragging countries into it.

Which by the way, what a megalomaniacal show of force. A war, and for what purpose? Because you didn't want NATO on your doorstep? Congrats, now you share a border with NATO Poland. A former KGB man should never have been allowed anywhere near power, especially one as unhinged as him. Not even Russians support this war tbh.

As for sanctions, again, Putin has a lot of Europe by the bullhorns. Either through direct funding of the governing party such as in the case of the UK, or through gas pipelines, like Germany or the Netherlands. I still believe we should sanction Russia completely, even though it will definitely make our current cost of living crisis far worse, but I think that's a small price to pay, however, considering Boris Johnson is fanatically in love with Churchill, he's been a bit of a soft touch here.

It's depressing and I feel terribly for everyone directly impacted, however I also think it'll be over fairly soon because Russia as of now has already secured a direct connection to Kyiv, and the Ukrainian army in terms of numbers alone cannot really compare.
I’m don’t want war either. I’m just saying that Russia has been sanctioned before and it still hasn’t stopped Putin from corrupting the democratic world. It just feels like the only way to show we’re not fooling around anymore is to unite as a combined threat against him.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I’m don’t want war either. I’m just saying that Russia has been sanctioned before and it still hasn’t stopped Putin from corrupting the democratic world. It just feels like the only way to show we’re not fooling around anymore is to unite as a combined threat against him.
Which won’t happen. It’ll come down to it being Russia, China, and many rich Middle Eastern countries against whatever western countries decide to align together and they hold a lot of power between manufacturing and oil.

The western world fucked itself over by letting these countries take over key industries that are paramount to their survival. China has manufacturing, Russia has oil, places like Saudi Arabia have oil and TONS of money. It’ll never happen unless the United States is willing to push back into manufacturing and also decides to go full in on electric, solar, and nuclear power immediately.
 

Dentim

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Which won’t happen. It’ll come down to it being Russia, China, and many rich Middle Eastern countries against whatever western countries decide to align together and they hold a lot of power between manufacturing and oil.

The western world fucked itself over by letting these countries take over key industries that are paramount to their survival. China has manufacturing, Russia has oil, places like Saudi Arabia have oil and TONS of money. It’ll never happen unless the United States is willing to push back into manufacturing and also decides to go full in on electric, solar, and nuclear power immediately.
Which won't happen because to many politicians worship money and the GOP has gone full batshit.

I live in western Europe. People here are worried. Putin is a former KGB psycho and I've calling it for years: the dude wants to get back the USSR states because he can't stand the fact it ended. This is a gigantic ego trip and it's unlikely his ambitions end with Ukraine.
 

kirabook

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I feel like this is going to restart the nuclear arms race. Ukraine is in this crisis because the leaders at the time were convinced if they gave up their nuclear weapons that the peace wouldn't be broken. Now look at what's happening.

It's so terrifying to think the only way for humans to stop attacking each other is by means of mutually assured destruction.
 

2 quid is good

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Which won't happen because to many politicians worship money and the GOP has gone full batshit.

I live in western Europe. People here are worried. Putin is a former KGB psycho and I've calling it for years: the dude wants to get back the USSR states because he can't stand the fact it ended. This is a gigantic ego trip and it's unlikely his ambitions end with Ukraine.
That's exactly what I've been saying too! He's literally a psycho and cannot stand the USSR doesn't exist anymore. I think the only thing stopping him from entering Poland is its a NATO member, but further down the line will that even be enough? He's scared off every European nation with his promise of a response "they've never seen before" if they do intervene. And of course, Europe will do absolutely anything to avoid war on their soil. It's practically appeasement but like you said, where does it stop?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Not only the nuclear but also the conventional arms race sooner or later. In Europe itself, only the UK and France have a military that is strong enough to at least stand up to Russia's military which has been modernized and enlarged during the last 15 years while most European leaders were only interested in economic topics and how to please their local greedy lobbyists.

With Putin now kicking the existing order down with crushing force the European nations will have no choice but to invest more into their own military capabilities, not to actually unleash WW III or go offensively against Russia, but as deterrence.
Why? Well, while NATO as a whole may be overall stronger than Russia, the crux is that the majority of military power right now comes from the USA and they cannot fully invest their attention and resources in the European theatre. If the US would do that Red China would take that as a welcoming opportunity in Asia and the Pacific Region to follow their own more imperialistic goals.

Germany especially but also the EU as a whole have made several overall strategic blunders in the last few years as well, naively going with economical and diplomatic actions only without keeping in mind that while diplomacy and peaceful approaches should be preferred and always prioritized there should be a certain position of strength to fall back to regardless when all diplomatic attempts fail.

What we have seen the entire last two or three months in terms of diplomatic efforts seems to have been in vain and were just diversion tactics from Putin all along as the current invasion of Ukraine seems to have been planned far in advance, also considering Putin made maximalist demands towards EU, Nato and USA he must have been aware were impossible to fulfill.

When it comes to the EU and USA what Spockanort mentioned is also largely correct since both Russia and Red China are only as powerful (and dangerous) today because the West as a whole naively thought that they could start a change towards more democratic and liberal viewpoints in those countries solely by trade and economic ties. Greed certainly played a role as well with many western big corporations and other "economical elites" to which most western politicians adhered and paid attention to rather than the possible political and overall strategic situation.

Sanctions themselves are a tool that only works far mid- to long-term time-wise so they won't help Ukraine a single Iota and depending on how far Red China will go together with Russia several of those might have no lasting impact at all.
I doubt the Chinese will allow themselves to get dragged into any war together with Russia, but they will stand at the sidelines and watch, occasionally indirectly helping out Putin and aim to eventually be the laughing third party because whoever "wins" in the end between Russia and the West will be exhausted while the Chinese will be untouched.
 

Dentim

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While this is all far from over, and god knows how bad things can escalate, I got to say: it gives me a certain amount of satisfaction and amusement knowing Putin pissed off almost everyone to the extent people are trying to troll the shit out of him.

https://www.iflscience.com/technology/teen-that-tracked-elon-musks-jet-is-now-targeting-russian-oligarchs/

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/putins-graceful-superyacht-is-renamed-crashes-on-snake-island-in-anonymous-hack-182820.html

Slava Ukraini
 
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