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Should Isa be killed, or saved?



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Should Isa be saved?

  • yes

    Votes: 18 56.3%
  • no

    Votes: 14 43.8%

  • Total voters
    32
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Samhain

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Braig was always such an evil bastard. He shouldn't be saved. He should be killed, and for good reason.

Isa...but what about Isa? Lea and him were best friends. But I can't help but think he shouldn't be saved either. The bastard was just as bad as Braig, especially in KHII. A complete douchebag to Roxas, and really shattered Sora in KH2 with Kairi. I think the amount of harm he has done that it is too late for Isa, and he should be killed.
 

VoidGear.

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Kill him off after he saves Lea, realizing that their friendship was more important in the end or whatever.
But no, no saving him please.
 

Samhain

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I don't think he should be saved. I don't think it sends a good message.

Explain why. I agree with you though, but I'm curious on why you think it wouldn't send a good message.
 

Audo

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Explain why. I agree with you though, but I'm curious on why you think it wouldn't send a good message.
It'll basically end up saying that you should stick with people who abuse you because in the end your love and friendship for them will save them and make them good people.
 

LightAndOblivion

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He should be saved while clone characters like Roxas, Namine and Xion should stay gone.

Then maybe Isa never shows up again after being saved because they'll ruin him going forward in the next saga.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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He should be saved while clone characters like Roxas, Namine and Xion should stay gone.

Then maybe Isa never shows up again after being saved because they'll ruin him going forward in the next saga.
So save the guy who shouldn't be saved and not save the characters that are obviously going to be saved?
 

LightAndOblivion

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Ya. Save the original character we have nothing on currently and don't save the clone characters who shouldn't come back. Down with the clones. The main cast is a joke because of it.
 

Echoecho6

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I vote he should be saved. I still think once he became a nobody, that his mind was obviously corrupted by Xemnas and futher by Xehanort himself and it isn't all his fault for his actions. Lea's main reason for having his keyblade is to save his former best friend, so I feel like he will have a keyblade for nothing if he accomplishes nothing in freeing Isa. Yea Saiix was a douche but he hasn't dont anything THAT bad imo.
 

digimikej

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I vote he should be saved. I still think once he became a nobody, that his mind was obviously corrupted by Xemnas and futher by Xehanort himself and it isn't all his fault for his actions. Lea's main reason for having his keyblade is to save his former best friend, so I feel like he will have a keyblade for nothing if he accomplishes nothing in freeing Isa. Yea Saiix was a douche but he hasn't dont anything THAT bad imo.

I disagree with you on Lea's motivations, although your on the right track. I'd argue more that he wanted a keyblade to be closer to Roxas/ try and bring him back. as to the actual matter of whether he should be saved or not, I'm going to have to agree with Audo 100%.
 

Chuuya

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Let Isa live! He's one of my favs and he's STILL Lea's friend no matter what you guys think. Let him live.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I think it really depends on how much agency Isa had over his actions. Isa represents what happens when friendships go wrong. The emotional abuse, the jealousy, the envy...It's the worst kind of relationship and nothing about Saix's actions are remotely redeemable.

The problem that I see is that we don't know just how much influence a fragment of Xehanort's heart has on the host. Did Saix's feeling for Axel become twisted because he let his own insecurities get in the way of things, or was it Xehanort's heart that turned Saix into the emotionally abusive jerk we see in the series? Did he willingly accept becoming a vessel? (I personally don't believe he was, but we have to wait to find out and see)

If his actions were directly influenced by the Xehanort heart fragment without his knowledge, then to a point I think he should be saved. I think any victim of Xehanort who wasn't a willing follower should be saved. I do not think that means he should be forgiven for his actions. It would take something big in order to redeem himself.

If Isa was in control the whole time, then he has no excuse for anything and of course he shouldn't be saved.
 

Audo

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I think it really depends on how much agency Isa had over his actions. Isa represents what happens when friendships go wrong. The emotional abuse, the jealousy, the envy...It's the worst kind of relationship and nothing about Saix's actions are remotely redeemable.

The problem that I see is that we don't know just how much influence a fragment of Xehanort's heart has on the host. Did Saix's feeling for Axel become twisted because he let his own insecurities get in the way of things, or was it Xehanort's heart that turned Saix into the emotionally abusive jerk we see in the series? Did he willingly accept becoming a vessel? (I personally don't believe he was, but we have to wait to find out and see)

If his actions were directly influenced by the Xehanort heart fragment without his knowledge, then to a point I think he should be saved. I think any victim of Xehanort who wasn't a willing follower should be saved. I do not think that means he should be forgiven for his actions. It would take something big in order to redeem himself.

If Isa was in control the whole time, then he has no excuse for anything and of course he shouldn't be saved.
Similar with us not wanting MX to be controlled by a higher power (whether his Keyblade or something else) as a way to exonerate him, I don't want them going that route with Isa either. It just feels cheap to be able to handwave his behaviour and actions away as "Because Xehanort". I don't think there is enough to suggest that Xehanort Heart fragments control them or influence them too much. Braig, for example, is portrayed as retaining his free will completely and he even is implied to have his own plans going on. Saix, similarly, even actively conspired against Xemnas while being a vessel. I'm just really not a fan of the idea that a character's actions are not their own. I feel like that would be such a cop out, both for us as fans, and for Isa as a character. Isa works well because he's a much needed counterpoint to the series main themes and such. Having him just being bad due to Xehanort just... eh.
 

Royce & Mueller

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It doesn't matter what we think or want. He will be saved. And most probably, Xehanort too. If not saved, then redeemed at the end. Kingdom Hearts is even more gutless when it comes to character death than most shonen series out there. I even recall Nomura explicitly mentioning that the concept of death doesn't even exist in this universe.
 

Elysium

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Yes. I don't consider a guy who gets brainwashed and body-farmed having another shot at life a bad message. Besides, what Lea did to Even and Ienzo was much worse than anything Saix has done. At most, Saix has served some cutting remarks and failed to kill Sora/Roxas, that’s about it.

Ya. Save the original character we have nothing on currently and don't save the clone characters who shouldn't come back. Down with the clones. The main cast is a joke because of it.

LOL, this.
 
Last edited:

alexis.anagram

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I think the question presents an interesting quandary for the series. The games have shown Riku to be capable of redeeming himself for his actions in KH1 and the majority of his arc is spent learning how to make amends and let go of his guilt over his own darkness in order to better command it so that it can never be used for evil again. Axel manipulated Roxas and Xion over the course of Days by deliberately withholding information and working behind their backs; he enabled the involuntary isolation of Namine within Castle Oblivion at least for a time and, like Saix, he kidnapped Kairi to serve his own ends, but he's back as full-fledged hero of light with his own Keyblade by the end of DDD. Terra allowed himself to be manipulated through his own desire for power at any cost, and his unwillingness to subject his actions to the scrutiny of others out of pure hubris led to many of the tragic events which preface Sora's journey in KH3; yet he is shown in Blank Points to be wiser to Xehanort's schemes and prepared to resist his influence inside of his heart. Ansem the Wise was a bigot who felt he could use other beings he saw as unfit for existence to whatever ends he so desired in order to enact his own personal revenge: in these endeavors he was not a victim of untoward influence or manipulation, and yet he too has made strides towards redemption characterized by an acknowledgment of his own wrongdoings and a vocal desire to set things right.

Our problem as an audience is that we know so much less about Isa, about what is driving his opposition to the light and what really instigated his alliance with Xehanort. I don't believe that his actions have been driven by the "seed" within his heart and it's my feeling that he made the choice to side with Xehanort because he, like many other characters within this series, is flawed and susceptible to the darker side of his own heart, which pretty much everyone has to contend with (except for characters with little to no development like Disney princesses and Kairi). Even Sora falls victim to it: driven to indiscriminate rage in Chain of Memories over false memories he doesn't pause to reconsider (and what does that say about Namine, who was so lonely and yearning for connection that she put those false memories there and collaborated in the Organization's plan to capture Sora with full knowledge of what she was doing), and then felled in DDD when he can't see how vulnerable he really is and thinks he can carry the pain of others by himself.

I like Isa because there is a symbolic duality to his arc. He challenges Axel repeatedly to reaffirm the importance of their friendship when he knows it's threatened by the never ending, labyrinthine machinations of Xemnas and Xigbar (which he himself is party to). He calls Xion a puppet and seems to regard her with either indifference or contempt yet he musters up a defense for her (albeit coded in his usual objectifying language) when Xigbar recommends she be eliminated early on for abandoning the Organization.

I think there would be dramatic value to having Isa perish at the hands of Lea or another major character with close ties to him. But I think the series could get even more mileage out of exploring what it is that Isa is afraid of losing (a central theme of Days and a factor in all of the major Organization characters' arcs) and how that has driven him to act in such a duplicitous fashion. Personally, I think that Isa feels betrayed, abandoned and used-- used by Lea for a convenient friendship until he was simply replaced by Roxas and Xion, used by Xehanort and ultimately losing his original existence as a result of that. Perhaps in siding with Xehanort he is seeking a semblance of control or at least of power over his own destiny; in that sense, I believe he is redeemable and I believe he can be "saved," but for him that may not look like a completely happy ending.

In the end, my view is that nobody really dies in Kingdom Hearts. Every heart goes through the washing machine and is born anew, so maybe for Isa a proper ending is a renewal so he has a chance to start with a clean slate and live the life he didn't have a chance to enjoy this time around.
 

BlackOsprey

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@alexis.anagram, you make some excellent points, especially about KH1 Riku. All that crap that he did was just about as morally reprehensible as anything that Isa has done: kidnapping, emotional abuse, attempted murder, generally being an asshole, and he didn't even have a Nort heart shard festering inside him while doing all those things.

I'm starting to think that it's not the idea of Isa being saved that bothers everyone, it's the idea that being saved will pardon him of all the horrible things that he's done with little or no consequences. It's not a stretch to say that if Riku had not shown an intense level of guilt and remorse and hadn't gone on a grueling redemption arc, fans probably would've scoffed at the idea of him getting "saved" or "becoming a good guy" too.

As it is right now, I figure most people assume that Isa wouldn't get this sort of redemption arc, which is pretty reasonable considering that sort of thing probably wouldn't fit very well into III and there's no room left in the saga for a Reverse/Rebirth arc for Isa. But, if he could theoretically get that kinda arc (the kind that does NOT give instantaneous redemption) after showing undeniably deep remorse...
 

Oracle Spockanort

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@alexis.anagram, you make some excellent points, especially about KH1 Riku. All that crap that he did was just about as morally reprehensible as anything that Isa has done: kidnapping, emotional abuse, attempted murder, generally being an asshole, and he didn't even have a Nort heart shard festering inside him while doing all those things.

Except he had to have had the shard in him because he already had gold eyes and pointed ears by time Days and KH2 rolled around.
 

alexis.anagram

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As it is right now, I figure most people assume that Isa wouldn't get this sort of redemption arc, which is pretty reasonable considering that sort of thing probably wouldn't fit very well into III and there's no room left in the saga for a Reverse/Rebirth arc for Isa. But, if he could theoretically get that kinda arc (the kind that does NOT give instantaneous redemption) after showing undeniably deep remorse...
While that's a reasonable position, I think that because the series has established these other points of reference with regards to its primary themes of redemption, it doesn't really need to spell out Isa's internal conflict to the same extent as the characters who have been explored along those lines previously. Most of it is history, anyway: a few key lines shared between him and Lea would probably suffice to fill in the blanks, and it could even occur within the context of a confrontation between the two where they essentially air all of their dirty laundry. Moreover, there's no reason the resolution to his story line has to be neat and tidy; I enjoyed his "death" in KH2 because it left so much about him ambiguous and up to viewer interpretation, particularly that final line which suggests we might even sympathize with his plight. The same could be true of his final appearance in KH3; I fully expect that he will be perish, but if his character is written with the kind of consideration consistent with his past appearances there are manners by which he can be redeemed without resorting to wishful thinking.

If nothing else, KH has a solid trend of holding characters accountable for using power to disrupt harmony and chase selfish ends. My belief is that Isa will bear this pattern out as a tragic figure, in contrast with Master Xehanort who is going to be thoroughly punished on a thematic scale a la KH1 Ansem SoD.
 
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