So after all this, when will Disney recognize Kairi as a Princess?

[Javelin434]

With the recent confirmation of KH3 at E3, I can't help but ask this burning question. The new information that SE released hasn't really helped answer any questions about her. I don't want her to be on the back seat again. It's been 10 years and the threat of her becoming only a plot device again seems very real to me. All that I'm hoping for is that she finally gets the attention that she deserves.

on another note: thinking about starting a petition on change.org for this. Any supporters out there?

 

[kupo1121]

You can petition all you want but Kairi won't become an official Disney princess until Kingdom Hearts merchandise is flying off of the shelves. At the current time, these are all the OFFICIAL disney princesses:

- Belle
- Snow White
- Ariel
- Jasmine
- Aurora
- Cinderella
- Rapunzel
- Mulan
- Pocahontas
- Tiana
- Merida

You might wonder why Mulan and Pocahontas are on that list (since they are not technically princesses) while characters like Giselle, Kida, Vanellope, Sofia, and Eilonwy are not on that list when they are in fact, from their Disney movies, royalty and are princesses in their movies.

Fun fact: Esmerelda and Tinker Bell used to be an official Disney princess but was removed from the list some time ago.

The reason being, Disney's line of official Disney princesses only includes those who are extremely popular and pretty much sell merchandise. It's sad to think of it that way, but it's true. Kingdom Hearts is very popular, but the KH fans don't buy more than the games I'm afraid. Disney is testing the waters with Kingdom Hearts merchandise as we speak (they've slowly introduced KH merchandise into their parks while licensing the game to Hot Topic). Little girls have next to no idea who Kairi is because they don't play Kingdom Hearts and I'm afraid to say I don't think she'll ever be among the ranks of the official Disney princesses for that reason BUT I'm content with her being recognized as an unofficial one like Alice, Meg, Esmerelda, etc.

 

[Ruran]

The correlation of the topic title with the OP confuse me.
So I'll address them separately I guess...

I take it you mean when will Disney recognize Kairi as a Disney Princess? Probably never, she doesn't fulfill any of the criteria.

KH3 was only just announced, there's not much to go by yet. Although I think out of all the KH games I think is one where it'd actually be a good idea to let Kairi sit in the background for a bit. There's just so much going on with the plot and other characters (Kairi's not the only one who needs attention) giving any one character too much attention would be distracting and trying to give kairi more spotlight might also just end up making her feel forced or her development rushed.

A petition to force Square to make Kairi more prominent? Making an online petition is like sending a letter in a bottle out into the ocean (no reference intended). Square shouldn't be forced to make a character more prominent like that. Then there's the being "forced" issue again, there's no point in including her more than needed when she's simply not needed. That's one of the things I disliked about how her character was used in KH2, for the most part it felt like she was included out of obligation more so than because she was legitimately an integral part of the story.

For KH3, I'm fine with her taking the plot device stance again all things considering, afterwards though it's a whole new ball game.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

There's just so much going on with the plot and other characters (Kairi's not the only one who needs attention) giving any one character too much attention would be distracting and trying to give kairi more spotlight might also just end up making her feel forced or her development rushed.

That's also my main gripe with the issue, simply because we have so many other characters that need attention and their issues solved.
Especially with Kairi, where the fandom is already on the fence anyways, this bears a huge risk for Kairi herself being hated even more if it's handled wrongly, speaking as in giving her a forced big amount of screentime.
Because if the fandom feels that Kairi may steal the spotlight and, say for example, the tormented characters are sidelined because of her, the character might get a blow that she doesn't recover from in the majority of the fandom's eyes ever.

Seeing that Kairi has decent potential this would be something I'd like to avoid.

 

[Ruran]

That's also my main gripe with the issue, simply because we have so many other characters that need attention and their issues solved.
Especially with Kairi, where the fandom is already on the fence anyways, this bears a huge risk for Kairi herself being hated even more if it's handled wrongly, speaking as in giving her a forced big amount of screentime.
Because if the fandom feels that Kairi may steal the spotlight and, say for example, the tormented characters are sidelined because of her, the character might get a blow that she doesn't recover from in the majority of the fandom's eyes ever.

Seeing that Kairi has decent potential this would be something I'd like to avoid.

Right.

My issue with this also is the mentality that I see from a lot of people that if a character has more screen time that means they'll inherently get character development and become a better character. Which sadly just isn't true. More screen time is pointless if it's unnecessary or throws things off, this is a big issue I see when Kairi in particular is being discussed. There's a mindset I see sometimes that if she's shoved into the plot whenever, wherever possible she (and the plot) will surely get better. And ever since 3D's secret ending there's been a lot of hype surrounding Kairi which isn't going to make things better in the long run either.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

My issue with this also is the mentality that I see from a lot of people that if a character has more screen time that means they'll inherently get character development and become a better character. Which sadly just isn't true. More screen time is pointless if it's unnecessary or throws things off, this is a big issue I see when Kairi in particular is being discussed. There's a mindset I see sometimes that if she's shoved into the plot whenever, wherever possible she (and the plot) will surely get better. And ever since 3D's secret ending there's been a lot of hype surrounding Kairi which isn't going to make things better in the long run either.

I think this may have to do with the misguided equation people make in the regard that more screentime = more chances for better character development without taking into account that the opposite is also possible.
I think I have even two examples for your statement that development isn't necessarily equal to screentime from DDD, which are both Roxas and Ventus (Naminé, Terra and Aqua actually had too few screentime in DDD in my opinion).
The screentime of the blond twins actually wasn't that much bigger as they both had, roughly spoken, only three scenes in the whole game:
Roxas:
1. In Lea's dream, reminding him of the promise (and causing Lea to say his name first when he wakes up).
2. The whole conversation with Sora in the dream, which was I would argue one of the top ten important scenes in DDD as a whole.
3. The question he asks Riku at the end.

Ventus:
1. As a disembodied heart he lends his Keyblade armor to Sora, shielding him from the darkness and buying time for Riku to reach and save Sora.
2. The question he asks Riku at the end.
3. Him smiling at the very last scene of DDD when feeling Sora's happiness.

All these amount to not that much of screentime when compared to the whole game, but all of them were meaningful to the plot and didn't feel forced or threw things off so to say.

The main problem with Kairi is that her arc would need to be build up slowly, like Riku's was, but since there's no base for it yet and KH III being stuffed full with important plot points already using the final chapter of a saga for that seems not well thought out.

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

I think this may have to do with the misguided equation people make in the regard that more screentime = more chances for better character development without taking into account that the opposite is also possible.
I think I have even two examples for your statement that development isn't necessarily equal to screentime from DDD, which are both Roxas and Ventus (Naminé, Terra and Aqua actually had too few screentime in DDD in my opinion).
The screentime of the blond twins actually wasn't that much bigger as they both had, roughly spoken, only three scenes in the whole game:
Roxas:
1. In Lea's dream, reminding him of the promise (and causing Lea to say his name first when he wakes up).
2. The whole conversation with Sora in the dream, which was I would argue one of the top ten important scenes in DDD as a whole.
3. The question he asks Riku at the end.

Ventus:
1. As a disembodied heart he lends his Keyblade armor to Sora, shielding him from the darkness and buying time for Riku to reach and save Sora.
2. The question he asks Riku at the end.
3. Him smiling at the very last scene of DDD when feeling Sora's happiness.

All these amount to not that much of screentime when compared to the whole game, but all of them were meaningful to the plot and didn't feel forced or threw things off so to say.

The main problem with Kairi is that her arc would need to be build up slowly, like Riku's was, but since there's no base for it yet and KH III being stuffed full with important plot points already using the final chapter of a saga for that seems not well thought out.

I agree, while Kairi is one of my favorite characters, I don't want her forced into the story. You want to see a character grow, it needs to happen slowly and this is the finale to the Xehanort saga, it's hard to put her there without being forced.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I agree, while Kairi is one of my favorite characters, I don't want her forced into the story. You want to see a character grow, it needs to happen slowly and this is the finale to the Xehanort saga, it's hard to put her there without being forced.

Exactly.
I also don't say this because I don't want Kairi to be included. She should be, but not in a way that results in her being hated even more than before.

 

[Zettaflare]

kairi is my least favorite character so far. i would love to see her grow, but it might be too late for this saga. it would probably be best to have her start her development in the next saga.

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

Exactly.
I also don't say this because I don't want Kairi to be included. She should be, but not in a way that results in her being hated even more than before.

Bingo, think of this and I am basing this on another series:

Say Kairi was missing for two years and finally came back, finishing the story arc that involved her disappearence and people would expect "Hey, she came back, does that mean she's a main now?"

No, she's supportive and most supportives have limited roles as you know you won't see them in every scene, like expecting Kairi to be in every world. A balence of Sora, Riku, and Kairi in each world would be a better idea.

And if she was dead and came back too, people would complain that her being brought back 'ruins' Sora and Riku. Bring a character back is another issue and that leads to more trouble as to involving characters who haven't be in the series much.

I will agree and disagree with both sides, as I want her, but I don't want her.

 

[Ruran]

I think this may have to do with the misguided equation people make in the regard that more screentime = more chances for better character development without taking into account that the opposite is also possible.

I WISH MORE PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT! There's also a little thing called "overexposure" (hi thar KH2 Sora).

*sobs*

I think I have even two examples for your statement that development isn't necessarily equal to screentime from DDD, which are both Roxas and Ventus (Naminé, Terra and Aqua actually had too few screentime in DDD in my opinion).
The screentime of the blond twins actually wasn't that much bigger as they both had, roughly spoken, only three scenes in the whole game:
Roxas:
1. In Lea's dream, reminding him of the promise (and causing Lea to say his name first when he wakes up).
2. The whole conversation with Sora in the dream, which was I would argue one of the top ten important scenes in DDD as a whole.
3. The question he asks Riku at the end.

Ventus:
1. As a disembodied heart he lends his Keyblade armor to Sora, shielding him from the darkness and buying time for Riku to reach and save Sora.
2. The question he asks Riku at the end.
3. Him smiling at the very last scene of DDD when feeling Sora's happiness.

All these amount to not that much of screentime when compared to the whole game, but all of them were meaningful to the plot and didn't feel forced or threw things off so to say.

Yup, yup, the important thing is time management, quality over quantity. You can give a character really good character development and a meaningful presence in just five minutes if you know how to use the time right but give another character 10 hours worth of screen time and not have it mean diddly squat.

The main problem with Kairi is that her arc would need to be build up slowly, like Riku's was, but since there's no base for it yet and KH III being stuffed full with important plot points already using the final chapter of a saga for that seems not well thought out.

I can't say for sure yet because, obviously, KH3 isn't out yet but looking at what we have now I don't think they took the best approach with Kairi. They know that Kairi hasn't done much per say, hence, using her as "shock value" in 3D's secret ending when I think they could have handled things a lot better than: "OMG LOOK KAIRI MEANS BUIZNEZ NAO BECAUSE SHE CAN WIELD!!1!" :I

Basically the execution was really off. They either should have built her up earlier or waited for the next saga to make her wielder status more prominent because now it feels last minute.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

it would probably be best to have her start her development in the next saga.

That would have been the best decision in the first place since in the new saga we won't have any pressing issues like saving a bunch of people and stopping a crazed lunatic from sparking a total war right off the bat as KH III will have.
They mucked that up with including Kairi in the DDD secret ending already though, so it can't be helped that they have to include her somehow now.
I just hope they manage to strike a balance and make her inclusion actually meaningful without overdoing it.

Bingo, think of this and I am basing this on another series:

Say Kairi was missing for two years and finally came back, finishing the story arc that involved her disappearence and people would expect "Hey, she came back, does that mean she's a main now?"

No, she's supportive and most supportives have limited roles as you know you won't see them in every scene, like expecting Kairi to be in every world. A balence of Sora, Riku, and Kairi in each world would be a better idea.

And if she was dead and came back too, people would complain that her being brought back 'ruins' Sora and Riku. Bring a character back is another issue and that leads to more trouble as to involving characters who haven't be in the series much.

I will agree and disagree with both sides, as I want her, but I don't want her.

I don't know which series you are referring to, but the main issue with Kairi is that she is not a support character (like i.e. Leon, The Beast or Yen Sid) but that she is supposed to be a main character.
Not on the same importance level as Sora(Protagonist) or Riku(deuteragonist) but I'd say her intended role would be at least on the same importance level as TAV, Roxas or Naminé.

I WISH MORE PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT! There's also a little thing called "overexposure" (hi thar KH2 Sora).

*sobs*

Considering from what I heard from the interview made with Nomura at E3 just minutes ago, Sora is apparently slated for overexposure in KH III again, lol.

Kidding aside, I realized this with quite some characters, especially "butt monkeys" and other intended "comedic" character types. They tend to get way more screentime than necessary for their own peril.

Yup, yup, the important thing is time management, quality over quantity. You can give a character really good character development and a meaningful presence in just five minutes if you know how to use the time right but give another character 10 hours worth of screen time and not have it mean diddly squat.



I can't say for sure yet because, obviously, KH3 isn't out yet but looking at what we have now I don't think they took the best approach with Kairi. They know that Kairi hasn't done much per say, hence, using her as "shock value" in 3D's secret ending when I think they could have handled things a lot better than: "OMG LOOK KAIRI MEANS BUIZNEZ NAO BECAUSE SHE CAN WIELD!!1!" :I

Basically the execution was really off. They either should have built her up earlier or waited for the next saga to make her wielder status more prominent because now it feels last minute.

That's actually something I hope they will fix in KH III that bothered me heavily in KH 2. As it looks like Riku and Mickey will do stuff apart from Sora who will be stuffed with the two stooges for the majority again. In KH 2, Riku, Mickey, Axel and Naminé were also doing stuff and that happened all just backstage without we ever seeing what they were doing!
I hope they will give at least some quality time to let us see what Riku and Mickey are actually up to.

I think it's in general to early to speculate that detailed on what will happening and how the characters, Kairi included, will contribute to the plot of KH III. The story summary we got is at best a rough overview over the general goals and setting, nothing more.

Exactly this, I would have welcomed either solution, as seeing Kairi train at the tower (maybe with Mickey) during the events of DDD in some scenes would also have been a good build up.
The secret ending could then have easily been either about something the Xehanort's are up to or Riku and Mickey actually deciphering Ansem's Data and realizing they need the "key to return hearts" for it to work, setting the stage for KH III even better.

 

[MATGSY]

She's barely recognized by Square as it is.

 

[Zettaflare]

I think that sephiroth hit the nail on the head when he said the main problem with kairi is that she is being treated as a supporting character. Sora, riku, and kairi is arguably the main trio in the entire series. if Sora is the protagonist and riku is the deuteragonist, it would have made sense for kairi to have been the tritagonist. And while at times the games try to make it seem that kairi has equal importance as sora and riku, in truth she has always been a supporting character, since kh1.

 

[Ruran]

I think that sephiroth hit the nail on the head when he said the main problem with kairi is that she is being treated as a supporting character. Sora, riku, and kairi is arguably the main trio in the entire series. if Sora is the protagonist and riku is the deuteragonist, it would have made sense for kairi to have been the tritagonist. And while at times the games try to make it seem that kairi has equal importance as sora and riku, in truth she has always been a supporting character, since kh1.

The tritagonist usually refers to the antagonist so that would be Xehanort. ;p
The thing is that Kairi is supposed to be an MC but was given a role suitable for an important supporting character, thus, there's little room for her to be appropriately proactive as opposed to most of the other characters. Hell, even Namine was able to be more proactive and she was written to be demure. She was miscast from the start which is why the writers are now scrambling to squeeze her into the Action Girl role because they wrote themselves into a corner with how they first constructed her character.

 

[Gram]

She's barely recognized by Square as it is.

So true it's almost hurtful. Dx

I think that sephiroth hit the nail on the head when he said the main problem with kairi is that she is being treated as a supporting character. Sora, riku, and kairi is arguably the main trio in the entire series. if Sora is the protagonist and riku is the deuteragonist, it would have made sense for kairi to have been the tritagonist. And while at times the games try to make it seem that kairi has equal importance as sora and riku, in truth she has always been a supporting character, since kh1.

I think so to. They've always felt more like a duo instead of the trio they was introduced as in kh1.