Help/Support ► so I'm atheist/agnostic now, and
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How childish, not understanding a word makes you not wanting to discuss.
Might be, fact is that religious people want to force their religion on to atheists, something that is pretty annoying. Atheists don't do that you know, simply because they are fine with other views. Imagine how you would like it when i would keep saying that god doesn't exist and you shouldn't believe, that is pretty annoying.
Its funny how she bothered to ban it anyway; the only member of my family that's a Christian is my mother, and we've still been celebrating Christmas every year since as long as I can remember. Well, then again, it is CHRISTmas, eh? I suppose there are those see it as a religious holiday, and others (like most of my family) that only see it as an excuse to get/give free stuff.
I think I know what you mean. I once had to endure a rather uncomfortable 20 minutes of attempted conversion by my mother. She kept saying stuff like "God has already visited your brother, you're next in line ..." (no, my bro ain't dead yet and neither am I) and "Its never too late to accept God ..." (Now where have I heard that before?). And the only thing I could do in response was to nod repeatedly and say "Yeah" over and over and over again ...
That must have been really aggravating. I would've just said can we talk about it later and walk away, every time someone would do that. And if it wasn't your mom you could just ignore them and walk off. There is just no reasoning with them when they try to convert you, no matter how good arguments you have.
I guess all I can say is:
Welcome to the family.
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Welcome to the family.
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wrong lol
Ehm yes, just to point out to everyone. An atheist is the opposite of a theist, obviously. An atheist doesn't believe in any diety. NOT AT ALL. If you don't want to pick your God from an existing religion, but still agree that there might be something more above, then you are NOT an atheist, you are a theist without a religion. Just saying, as people tend to mix things up, which is quite annoying at times.
That is generalism. Religious people do NOT want to force their religion on you, only orthodox-religious people try it (and please don't come saying you know a not-orthodox person who tries it, I am aware that every rule has an exception), and that is the same with atheists, as orthodox atheists try to convince religious people to step off.
I thought better of you.
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I don't believe you've met one of the more "vocal" atheists on these forums alone.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, an agnostic believes in some sort of deity or higher power but doesn't quite attach it to a certain religion, and an atheist believes in no deity whatsoever. How can you be both?
OK, I'll clear it up for everyone seeing as there appears to be a bit of confusion. I was going to make a thread about it but the thing on its own probably isn't worth reading unless I went into some prolonging but ultimately meaningless string of pseudo-intellectual dialogue.
Atheism is, as you know, derived from Theism which is all to do with BELIEF.
Agnosticism, however, is derived from Gnosticism which is all to do with KNOWLEDGE.
So essentially, you can believe in a God but doubt that/be uncertain the knowledge of said God is scientifically "prove-able"/currently knowable/beyond human comprehension. This isn't called Agnosticism, but Agnostic-Theism.
In the same way you could be an Agnostic-Atheist, who doesn't believe in a God, and doubts that/is uncertain (copypasta) the knowledge of said God is scientifically "prove-able"/currently knowable/beyond human comprehension.
Then we have Gnostic-Atheist, who is certain of a deity's non-existence, and as a result believes it does not exist, or denies it whatever.
And finally you can be a Gnostic-Theist, aka. blind follower who not only believes in God but is entirely certain of their existence.
But the funny thing is that they're all technically Atheist, because Atheism is the practice of rejecting a deity's existence. This applies to all deities, so you, Dogen, who believes in God, are in fact an Atheist toward all other religions.
So unless you believe in every deity-esque being to ever grace your five senses (we call these "gullibles"), we're ALL Atheists. =D
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Do you mean that only theism has to do with belief or atheism does allso?
atheism and theism = both belief. Or disbelief, rather.
I always thought the special "a" put in front meant something, but apparently the word atheism came first, and then theism later so who knows. =/
EDIT: Oh, and I guess knowledge precedes belief, so I took the liberty of swapping the terms around in my previous post for aesthetic purposes.
I always thought the special "a" put in front meant something, but apparently the word atheism came first, and then theism later so who knows. =/
EDIT: Oh, and I guess knowledge precedes belief, so I took the liberty of swapping the terms around in my previous post for aesthetic purposes.
And why would atheism be a belief. Atheism has as much to do with belief as ice cream has to do with apples, it's both food but that's where the similarity ends.
Atheism isn't a belief so much as it has to do with belief. But that won't satisfy you because apparently you think disbelief has nothing to do with belief...
You're missing the point. Everyone generalises Atheism and Agnosticism in the same way belief and knowledge is generalised, when they're too entirely separate things. They influence each other, but they are not each other. Agnosticism doesn't solely apply to belief, because it's about knowledge.
I could be a Lord of the Rings Agnostic, arguing that I'll never fully understand the LOTR universe because Tolkien died and his son finished off some of his works. It works for any book really, because the author will always leave gaps and silences... but I digress...
You're missing the point. Everyone generalises Atheism and Agnosticism in the same way belief and knowledge is generalised, when they're too entirely separate things. They influence each other, but they are not each other. Agnosticism doesn't solely apply to belief, because it's about knowledge.
I could be a Lord of the Rings Agnostic, arguing that I'll never fully understand the LOTR universe because Tolkien died and his son finished off some of his works. It works for any book really, because the author will always leave gaps and silences... but I digress...
I thought you were going to say that atheism is a belief, but luckily you know it's not. But disbelief is the inverse of belief, and in a way that is too belief. I like to think of atheism as a personal truth because not all atheists think of it the same but do have a general concensus about the hypothesis of a god. It's true that a lot of people don't know the main differences between atheism and agnosticism but they do share a lot with eachother, don't you think? I do think however that both atheism and agnosticism have to do a lot with knowledge, not just agnosticism.
Yes, the two are very heavily intertwined, I just wanted people to know they weren't restricted to (or in some cases, totally separate) to one another. Well yes an Atheist bases their dis/belief from knowledge, but in the end it's just a belief. You can believe in something without knowledge, or specific kinds of knowledge, such as science. We have people in this day and age who isolate themselves from the modern world, and persist in the teachings that were fed to them hundreds, if not thousands of years ago.
But i don't think atheists are in disbelief, which to me is also belief. Instead of disbleief they have their own view which, according to what they experience is their theory.
Atheism and Theism are both beliefs, because they both believe something about the supernatural because they can't be proven through objective evidence
Theism believes that there is a God (based on reasoning and faith)
Atheism believes that there is not a God (based on reasoning and faith)
While it's true that Atheists have different beliefs from one another, the same could be said of the various religious groups in the world. However, theists are united by the fact that they believe in a God, while atheists are united by the fact that they do not believe in a God (despite their other beliefs).
It's as simple as that.
Theism believes that there is a God (based on reasoning and faith)
Atheism believes that there is not a God (based on reasoning and faith)
While it's true that Atheists have different beliefs from one another, the same could be said of the various religious groups in the world. However, theists are united by the fact that they believe in a God, while atheists are united by the fact that they do not believe in a God (despite their other beliefs).
It's as simple as that.
it is no belief, you should seriously get better informed.
How is it anything but a belief?
It is a belief based on what the person perceives to be true (reasoning) and the desire for it to be true (faith).
It is no belief for two reasons. Not all atheists see things the same, i might think the universe came to be by a sudden expansion, another atheist thinks it just suddenly poofed to what it has been since the beginning of mankind. Also, neanderthals which we are descendents from didn't even think that there was a god, it just was thought up about 2000 years ago. Not believing in a god is no belief, it is a clear view on your surroundings like man already had millenia ago.
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