[spoiler] Master Xehanort: Evil or Not?

[Lord betrayus]

I agree now, he was is and always will be evil.

 

[destiny seeker]

You know I was thinking, Maybe he had a bad childhood.

 

[Vani]

well Samhain u r mostly right but this thred is about MASTER xehanort not the xehanort we all kno and hate. that xehanort probably did all those things because of BRAIGS influence as hinted in the seceret ending. plus MX did all those things because he found it neccassary to achieve his goal. he was willing to take risks in order to get the balance. but in the end the regection of eraqus made him, like wat ppl hav said, BIASED to the darkness. this led to his CORRUPTION and him wanting ultimate power to prove achieve his goal and prove eraqus wrong.he did get carried away but his iintentions were pure and therefore i dont believe he was evil just corrupt.

 

[Dentim]

You know I was thinking, Maybe he had a bad childhood.

As far as we know, Nope. Just a boring one. (by his standards, give me an island paradise anytime)

 

[Key to Truth]

In my opinion, i just think he is the only smart person in the whole series xD
I think he is not evil.

 

[lycropath]

You guys do know what his idea of balance was right? It was eternal war between light and darkness with neither side to ever over come another, just never ending suffering and bloodshed but for all.

 

[Zulkir]

At the view of everything we got on him in BBS, do you consider him an evil character, or simply an antagonist. I know this debate has often been done about Organization XIII and Xemnas, but I find MX's case even more interesting. I even consider that Eraqus, who is on the good guy's side, was wrong.



Personally I don't see Xehanort as evil, but as pretty much very determined.

How the hell did you see Terra's story then not see MX as evil?

He killed Terra's father-figure, sucked his home into a vortex, ripped half his friend's heart out, burned then froze his friend and threw him off a cliff, then took over Terra's body.


What do you want him to do? Drink the blood of kittens?


I mean look at him!



LOOK

AT

FRICKIN

HIM!

EDIT: Samhain's response above is more than enough proof.

 

[Mr. Wilhelm]

maybe on what u saw doesnt mean he's evil. the man manipulates ppl. hell all the Xehanort's do. that whole balencing light and dark is complete BS and all an act from the guy who just wants to be view more "good" infront of the ppl and try to convince Terra he's always a good guy

You assume it is an act. You have no factual proof of it, even the reports hint to it not being an act.

what he REALLY wants to do is take the X Blade, unlock Kingdom Hearts, start the Keyblade War yet again and that involves millions of people dying AGAIN. he also wants to make HIS own world. he may have said "o light and darkness balence blablablablabla"

Peoples dying may be a necessity for the greater good. Did you play MGS4? Thousands of death because of Ocelot, yet I dare you to say getting rid of the order imposed by The Patriots wasn't necessary.

-possibly killed his own master (would fit well on how evil he is)

Assumption. Not to add even if we did, we lack context, content, personality of the master, etc.

-gave his old friend a scar for eternity

Doesn't make him evil, cruel and vengeful at best, what doesn't define evil (lots of good guys are cruel). And peoples switch from friends on enemy during their life, natural process, you've got 6 billions evil peoples on Earth by those ind of thought.

-killed his own friend without having any doubts

In order to achieve his plans. Eraqus was ready to kill Ventus for what he believed to be GOOD, Xehanort did the same. Remember, Eraqus is a closed minded Master. Discussion with him on anything relating to Darkness was impossible.

-destroyed TAV's world and destroyed their world right infront of Terra say he doesnt need a 'home' anymore

Classical villains line. Doesn't make you evil. Once more, necessity.

-manipulated maleficent in the future
-manipulated braig and was going to kill braig if he didnt go further
-manipulated terra, messed with his mind calling him 'Master Terra' when he wasnt, stole his own body, and did dark things in the future with terra's own body...

To achieve a greater goal, sacrifice may be necessary. Would have preferred Eraqus to keep the upper hand and teach everyone "Light is GOOD my students! Darkness is evil!", and so on for centuries, millennial? As I showed above, MX's doing led to the balance Light/Darkness to be accepted and seen as positive through Riku.

-split ven's heart in half; made vanitas; caused ven to suffer for a longggggggg time for what he did, and wanted his body (lol)

Same than above, necessity.

-stole riku's body, manipulated him and caused riku's life to suffer for about a year
-destroyed his own home and sora's when he came saying "this world has been connected". riku opened the door but Xehanort bought his heartless there and possibly manipulated Riku to opening the door in the first place
-treated his master ansem like shit and banished him
-manipulated the other apprentices to lose his heart and lose faith in ansem and even manipulated Ienzo which was the big key

Terranort's doing, not Master Xehanort. And even there, I'll tell you this IS NOT evil. MX had a bigger picture for the universe in head, not the life of mere individuals.

what he went to go for his goals is EVIL. his entire goal was EVIL.

No. I consider, if anything, a world where only light exists to be more evil than MX's vision.

the light/darkness balence was all an act.

Demonstrate it.

How the hell did you see Terra's story then not see MX as evil?

He killed Terra's father-figure, sucked his home into a vortex, ripped half his friend's heart out, burned then froze his friend and threw him off a cliff, then took over Terra's body.

That's the point, you saw it throgh Terra's eyes. Play a game about the Cold War frm the Russian's side, and come to tell me who you think is the bad guy. This applies for *any* conflict. If the game was played from MX's viewpoint with his ideas clearly exposed, you would think he is good.

I mean look at him!

Physical appearence is the least of the proof.

 

[blacksamurai2]

"There is nothing either good or bad,
but thinking makes it so."

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

 

[Zulkir]

That's the point, you saw it throgh Terra's eyes. Play a game about the Cold War frm the Russian's side, and come to tell me who you think is the bad guy. This applies for *any* conflict. If the game was played from MX's viewpoint with his ideas clearly exposed, you would think he is good.

KH =/= Cold War

Good and Evil are very different in Fantasy settings than they are in real life, depending on the intentions of the author.

To the storywriter, Nomura(concept and character I mean). Sora is "universally" good, and Xehanort is "universally" evil.

Those reports were from his early, early days, he didn't write them while BBS was happening. Sure, at first it seemed as if he just wanted the world to accept darkness as an important part of all things, but his actions in BBS speak otherwise.



MX's goal is to acquire Kingdom Hearts to reshape the world the way he sees fit.-Neither good nor Evil, but selfish.


He commited EVIL acts in order to reach this goal(harming others) -Evil


Evil and good are not as subjective in media as they are in real life. Sure, these games often have themes that relate to real life moral issues...but in KH, the evil guy and the good guy are clearly identified. KH2 was the only weak point, where the Org apparently only wanted to exist, and even this evidence was countered when Xemnas's true goals were revealed in days.



Whether his intentions were right in his eyes or not, his actions have caused more suffering across the world than anything we know of in KH history(unless the keyblade wars were worse, but we don't know about them). The ends do not justify the means.

"There is nothing either good or bad,
but thinking makes it so."

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet"

William Shakespeare is entitled to his opinion.

 

[YUPPP]

Hmm, I don't think he was evil. His intention's weren't evil, but the way he went about things was evil.

 

[Marx15]

His intentions weren't "evil"....but his methods to the madness is an entirely different perspective...lol.

So no, he wasn't "evil" per say, but it depends on perspective, MX thought that BALANCE was was everything...he would stop at nothing to achieve the perfect balance.

If you ask me, the main problem is whoever told MX the legend of the Keyblade Wars.
Since that was really the source of his intentions.

 

[destiny seeker]

^^ You kinda have a point there.
Whoever told him about the KW is the real evil one.

 

[loke13]

I'll have to agree, in fact I prefer to consider characters neither good nor evil (I don't believe in those words really in the first place).

Exactly why it's impossible to discuss with him. He's stubborn and close-minded, he wouldn't even consider the alternative Xehanort has to offer.

On a side note, Xehanort totally won to change mentalities. Because of his actions, Riku became a Keyblade user favoring balance between Light and Darkness. And Mickey said something like:

"I always considered Darkness evil, but seeing how Light and Darkness meddle in you, I'm changing my opinion" or something similar. Total win for Xehanort, Mickey or anyone else would never have said that by BBS.

Long ago, people lived in peace, bathed in the warmth of light. Everyone loved the light. Then people began to fight over it. They wanted the light for themselves. And darkness was born in their hearts. The darkness spread, swallowing the light and many people's hearts. It covered everything, and the world disappeared. But small fragments of the light survived... in the hearts of children. With these fragments of light, children rebuilt the lost world. It's the world we live in now. But the true light sleeps, deep within the darkness. That's why the worlds are still scattered, divided from each other. But someday, a door to the innermost darkness will open. And the true light will return. So, listen, child. Even in the deepest darkness, there will always be light to guide you. Believe in the light, and the darkness will never defeat you. Your heart will shine with its power and push the darkness away. Do you understand, Kairi?

Seems to me there is no compromising with darkness its very nature is to eclipse all things. Any "balance" that MX was striving for would have ultimately failed.

 

[Mr. Wilhelm]

Good and Evil are very different in Fantasy settings than they are in real life, depending on the intentions of the author.

Hum, no they're not. Good and evil are subjective things. The author may consider someone is evil in a game, it doesn't mean I'll have to consider the same thing. The author may show a red door and say it's a blue door, whatever, i'm not stupid enough to follow what the author says.

To the storywriter, Nomura(concept and character I mean). Sora is "universally" good, and Xehanort is "universally" evil.

No, Nomura 1/ Never said that and 2/ Is a japenese creator of video games.

Do you have any idea on japanese psychology? Those guys are far more advanced than us on the notion of good and evil. Even my philosophy professors spoke of Japanese's media (ie, Video Games, Manga, Book) as media where the 'good' and the 'evil' are far more ambgous notion than in most of our works.

Those reports were from his early, early days, he didn't write them while BBS was happening. Sure, at first it seemed as if he just wanted the world to accept darkness as an important part of all things, but his actions in BBS speak otherwise.

How do ou know Xehanort changed his mind? How do you know that his action don't lead to his original purpose? Nothing in BBS remotely hint to MX not wanting to create the balance any more. But to do so he needs to stay alive longer (Terra) and to open Kingdom Hearts (the X-Blade) to recreate the Keyblade War. Those are hard, cruel, decision, but it doesn't mean he changed his original purpose. He may have more purpose than just this one, but nothing hints that he abandoned them.

MX's goal is to acquire Kingdom Hearts to reshape the world the way he sees fit.-Neither good nor Evil, but selfish.

Because Eraqus who wants to continue banishing Darkness and not even hear a word about it is NOT selfish?

He commited EVIL acts in order to reach this goal(harming others) -Evil

If to you 'harming others' is the definition of evil, then I am sorry. Sora is evil too, wait, any existing thing is.

Evil and good are not as subjective in media as they are in real life. Sure, these games often have themes that relate to real life moral issues...but in KH, the evil guy and the good guy are clearly identified. KH2 was the only weak point, where the Org apparently only wanted to exist, and even this evidence was countered when Xemnas's true goals were revealed in days.

Read what I said above about Japanese media. SURE you have good and bad guys clearly identified. It's because it's necessary for a game's dynamic to have the protagonist nd the antagonist. Clearly the ambiguity isn't nearly as deep as in a MGS or Xenosaga game, but it still exists.

Whether his intentions were right in his eyes or not, his actions have caused more suffering across the world than anything we know of in KH history(unless the keyblade wars were worse, but we don't know about them). The ends do not justify the means.

Some things are necessary. I'll use back the example of ocelot in MGS4, he did HORRIBLE things, but for the greater good.

Seems to me there is no compromising with darkness its very nature is to eclipse all things. Any "balance" that MX was striving for would have ultimately failed.

You quoted a fairytale that has already been considered as that much: a fairy tale. Irrelevant.

 

[loke13]

You quoted a fairytale that has already been considered as that much: a fairy tale. Irrelevant.

And yet Nomura already stated that it was "more than just a fairytale".

 

[Mr. Wilhelm]

Last time I checked he just said the contrary, he may have changed since, dunno. But even if there's a part of truth, a truth that has been yelled on us is that Light cannot exist without Darkness. It's a fairytale for kid, taking it for word is like taking for truth the tales your grandma told you to help to sleep for truth.

 

[Horizon's Knight]

The perfect "Balance" MX had in mind reminds me of Galactic Boss Cyrus' intentions to make a perfect world. He thought he was good, but he was really evil. The same applies for MX. No matter how much MX thinks he is good and everyone else is evil, he has really become evil at this point. The only way to have a true Balance, is to haveniter lgiht nor darkness. You see, my belief is that the current light and darkness stemmed from the "true light". Nomura said that the fariy tale wasn't totally cannon, but had some truth to what was being said. Maybe this "true light" is the real power of the Heart, and MX wants to awaken it.

 

[Gram]

i think he was simply insane.
he started out fine but years of using/abusing darkness to achive his goals drove the old man mad.

Seems to me there is no compromising with darkness its very nature is to eclipse all things. Any "balance" that MX was striving for would have ultimately failed.

this^

^^ You kinda have a point there.
Whoever told him about the KW is the real evil one.

hardly, the master passes the legend on to students.
MX's master told him of it like he did Master E.

 

[rac7d]

good intentions but hi method of so arenot good