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[SPOILERS] [Theory] Possible connection between Naminé and LS...



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JustSnilloc

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Alright, so as we all know from what Nomura has told us about being in KH, and DiZ's reports, Naminé should not exist correct? Well in the same thought, neither should Terra's Lingering Sentient...

Some have theorized that the LS contains Terra's soul, however this is impossible as the body will die without a soul, therefore the Lingering Sentient must hold something in order to exist the way it does, same with Naminé

Let's see, with the Naminé she was created alongside Roxas when Sora became a heartless correct? Let's think of the Nobody creation process like so...

part1.png


Basically, if the heart is strong enough... It will leave an image of who the person used to be to form that Nobody (Organization Nobodies). Think of the heart as casting a light through the body to form the Nobody, then the heart falls into darkness.

... but, if a second heart were to escape during this process (like Kairi's)...

SoraxKairi.png


The light of her heart would shine through Sora's body/soul and from the essence of it create an abnormal Nobody

---

Terra's Lingering Sentient is also similar to this... Except that some light from his heart battling Xehanort's heart as he (Xehanort) pulled of the armor cast an image of Terra into the armor thus having an imprint of his heart, thus being able to wield his keyblade, thus being able to feel emotions

Thoughts?
 

Marx15

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An LS contains the thoughts and emotions of the person at the time of it's creation. When Terra's LS was made, it only had a hatred for Xehanort.

When Sora fought the LS, it thought Sora was Xehanort, since that was the last thing it remembered.

LS's in no way have the soul of the person, again, just the thought and emotions of the person at the time of it's creation.
 

Axеl

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An LS contains the thoughts and emotions of the person at the time of it's creation.

I've gone and forgotten everything I thought I knew about Namine, but is it possible then that she could be an LS of Kairi? Born under extreme and unusual circumstances still, to resemble a Nobody if not be some weird hybrid of the two. It just doesn't seem to me like she could be the full Nobody because where in the heck did the body come from, and if from Sora, why in the heck did it go to Kairi instead? (Who by the way was already complete and didn't appear to need a Nobody, since as a Princess of Heart she shouldn't have created one in the first place.)

I know the concept of an LS may or may not have existed at the time Namine was thought up, but Namine's core motivation (loneliness) could potentially fit with Kairi's dismay at losing Sora and Riku both. That said she'd be a very high-functioning LS compared to Terra's.
 

JustSnilloc

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LS's in no way have the soul of the person, again, just the thought and emotions of the person at the time of it's creation.

Which means it could be an imprint that his heart left on the armor, right? :D

Axеl;5751177 said:
I've gone and forgotten everything I thought I knew about Namine, but is it possible then that she could be an LS of Kairi? Born under extreme and unusual circumstances still, to resemble a Nobody if not be some weird hybrid of the two. It just doesn't seem to me like she could be the full Nobody because where in the heck did the body come from, and if from Sora, why in the heck did it go to Kairi instead? (Who by the way was already complete and didn't appear to need a Nobody, since as a Princess of Heart she shouldn't have created one in the first place.)

I know the concept of an LS may or may not have existed at the time Namine was thought up, but Namine's core motivation (loneliness) could potentially fit with Kairi's dismay at losing Sora and Riku both. That said she'd be a very high-functioning LS compared to Terra's.

My theory works for the first paragraph, basically a strong heart will create a human like Nobody... a slightly weaker heart will create a non-human Nobody... A weak heart doesn't leave a nobody at all, only a heartless

As far as her being a Lingering Sentient, it doesn't quite fit... There was nothing Lingering about Kairi's heart, and it didn't linger inside anything other than her body and Sora's... idk though, the other princesses lost their hearts too yet they didn't create nobodies, therefore something special must've happened with Kairi correct?

(For the part I bolded...) Remember how I described my Nobody creation theory?
Spoiler Spoiler Show


The source of light would represent the heart, the bat symbol would represent the body, and the picture on the clouds would represent the resulting Nobody, in Naminé's creation Kairi's second heart cast another light through Sora's body to make a new Nobody
 
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Marx15

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As far as her being a Lingering Sentient, it doesn't quite fit... There was nothing Lingering about Kairi's heart, and it didn't linger inside anything other than her body and Sora's... idk though, the other princesses lost their hearts too and if they didn't create nobodies, then something special must've happened with Kairi then correct?

The other 6 PoH didn't create Nobodies, since they don't have darkness in their hearts.


Naminé was born when Sora stabbed himself with Ansem's artificial Keyblade in order to return Kairi's heart to her body. This made Naminé a very strange Nobody, born from Kairi's heart and Sora's body and soul. Kairi's own body never became a Nobody because her heart lacked darkness (since she was one of the Princesses of Heart), so her body and soul were never able to leave the Realm of Light and thus made it seem like Kairi was in a comatose state until she regained her heart.


She was born from Kairi's heart and Sora's body and soul. She's not the same as an LS.
 

JustSnilloc

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The other 6 PoH didn't create Nobodies, since they don't have darkness in their hearts.

Huh? Kairi didn't have darkness in her heart either... She's a PoH and therefore doesn't have any darkness
 

Marx15

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And this falls in line with my theory... What do you think of it?

LS was created through emotion and thought manifesting in Terra's armor. It was his last will to stop Xehanort, that is why the LS was made. Not really dealing with his heart.

Namine was made through an unusual circumstance. Someone's heart used another persons body and soul to create another being.

Nobodies were never meant to exist, an LS was never said to have never existed. They do.

Terra's mind had control of the LS, as said by Xehanort before they fight.

"Your body submits, your heart succumbs-" "So why does your mind resist".

The LS is all of the mind of Terra, not his heart, not his body, nor his soul.


Namine wasn't made through the mind of Sora or Kairi.


So although I respect your thought of a possible connection, there really isn't one.
 

IAMSORA

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i dont know about a connection, but they both are certainly strange, and we are due for an explanation for both of their existences in future games. i never really got LS.

xehanort heart---> terra body
terra heart ---> terra body
terra soul ---> terra armor = LS

LS = terras soul with his mind, but not heart. like the opposite of a nobody? we have yet to learn of a being that is just a soul. i am now very curious. he seemed to behave like a nobody
 

Axеl

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LS = terras soul with his mind, but not heart. like the opposite of a nobody? we have yet to learn of a being that is just a soul. i am now very curious. he seemed to behave like a nobody

Unless I'm very much mistaken, you can't separate the soul from the body without killing it. Meaning Terra's soul still exists in his body as Xemnas. From what Marx15 said on LS's earlier, I'm inclined to think they're a kind of byproduct? Not really connected in the same way that Heartless and Nobodies are in the sense that they have to be combined in to the real person.

Namine is definitely still a byproduct of some sort, but it's really unclear what exactly she is besides a fluke after the whole PoH = no darkness thing. Sure they call her a Nobody, but they called Xion a Nobody too. For Namine to exist while Kairi and Roxas are both awake and about implies that a third soul was created, though Sora and Roxas also coexisted at the same time and that really doesn't make sense unless you apply Ven there.
 

JustSnilloc

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Axеl;5751716 said:
though Sora and Roxas also coexisted at the same time and that really doesn't make sense unless you apply Ven there.

That one's easy, Sora just existed of his heart from the end of KH all the way through the beginning of KH2... What you thought was a body was really a PPS (projected physical shell) heartless exist only of a heart, and they produce these pseudo-bodies, as did Sora - difference being his heart got purified of the darkness and he became him again

Axеl;5751716 said:
Unless I'm very much mistaken, you can't separate the soul from the body without killing it. Meaning Terra's soul still exists in his body as Xemnas.

Exactly, which is part of the reason I came up with this theory to figure out what that bi-product could be...

---

OKAY, so my theory works off of the notion that every non-physical thing goes on in the heart (ex: The mind, the emotions, willpower, etc.)

When I say the heart left an imprint, I'm saying that the power emitted from that heart was strong enough to leave "something" on the body/soul

When a normal heart is separated from the body, and the body falls into darkness the heart is not strong enough to imprint upon the body the will to live, and therefore a Nobody isn't created (because the heart didn't imprint anything)

When a strong heart is separated from the body, the strength of the heart imprints upon the body a will to live and go on... This is how normal Nobodies are created (because the heart imprinted something)

When a very strong heart is separated from the body, the strength of the heart imprints EVERYTHING upon the body, including the will to live... This is how the Org. Nobodies look human and can act as they do (because the heart was strong enough to imprint everything)
--ALSO as long as their heart remains submerged in the darkness it fell into (since the heart holds everything), they can remember their past... Also if the heart were to leave the darkness it would interrupt that process and the Nobody would only hold the memories it had gained until that point

This is all because the body and soul without a heart realistically have no ownership, or at least no sense of ownership (take a dusk for example)

...

The connection that Naminé and the LS share is the fact that Kairi's heart and Terra's heart left an imprint in a way that they shouldn't have... Kairi's heart accidentally used Sora's Body/Soul to make a second Nobody, Terra's heart fighting Xehanort left an imprint on Terra's armor (which had magical properties to begin with) and that imprint that it left was his rage and hate of Xehanort
 
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Nayru's Love

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I wouldn't really associate what Namine is with what LS is; both were born out of different circumstances.

Axеl;5751716 said:
Namine is definitely still a byproduct of some sort, but it's really unclear what exactly she is besides a fluke after the whole PoH = no darkness thing. Sure they call her a Nobody, but they called Xion a Nobody too. For Namine to exist while Kairi and Roxas are both awake and about implies that a third soul was created, though Sora and Roxas also coexisted at the same time and that really doesn't make sense unless you apply Ven there.

Namine can be classified as a Nobody because she was born like one. Granted, that doesn't make her any less special.
 

JustSnilloc

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I wouldn't really associate what Namine is with what LS is; both were born out of different circumstances.

The connection that Naminé and the LS share is the fact that Kairi's heart and Terra's heart left an imprint in a way that they shouldn't have...

There's not a gigantic connection between the two, but they are similar in the previously mentioned way
 

JustSnilloc

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Terra's heart never left his body. It's always been a part of Terranort.

I'd say Terra's heart battling the Keyblade Master let out enough power to leave an imprint on the armor without having to leave his body... It's not like the armor was somewhere else, it was right on top of his skin
 

Nayru's Love

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By that logic, Riku should have created some sort of sentiment when XH took over his body. Namine didn't have a problem with being born without any preexisting body, so Riku shouldn't have either.
 

JustSnilloc

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By that logic, Riku should have created some sort of sentiment when XH took over his body. Namine didn't have a problem with being born without any preexisting body, so Riku shouldn't have either.

True... But with Naminé Sora's body was fading away (soon to create a nobody), with Riku however Terranort's Heartless kept possession of Riku's body and Riku's body stayed in the RoL... Terranort's Heartless later expelled Riku's heart and Riku was strong enough not to fall into darkness

The only thing Riku could have left any sentiment on was his own body (as he was wearing a suit made of ASoD's darkness) but Riku received his body back after Terranort's heartless was destroyed because the light of Kingdom Hearts, so any sentiment left behind was reattained by Riku
 

Nayru's Love

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True... But with Naminé Sora's body was fading away (soon to create a nobody), with Riku however Terranort's Heartless kept possession of Riku's body and Riku's body stayed in the RoL... Terranort's Heartless later expelled Riku's heart and Riku was strong enough not to fall into darkness

The only thing Riku could have left any sentiment on was his own body (as he was wearing a suit made of ASoD's darkness) but Riku received his body back after Terranort's heartless was destroyed because the light of Kingdom Hearts, so any sentiment left behind was reattained by Riku

Namine was created from nothing, seeing how Sora's body was already being used by Roxas.
 

JustSnilloc

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Namine was created from nothing, seeing how Sora's body was already being used by Roxas.

Look at the first pic I did...
Spoiler Spoiler Show


In it, it shows how the heart imprints upon the body something so that a nobody can exist... Now in the second pic...
Spoiler Spoiler Show


In this one it shows what happened when Kairi's heart left Sora, it used Sora's body/soul to create what should be considered the shadow of a Nobody... Kairi's heart (being pure light, and being keyblade wielder material) used Sora's body/soul to make a Nobody, it may not fall under the "normal" creation process, but it's the best explanation for how it happened
 
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