• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

*SPOILERS* Xemnas True Goal



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

MasterZeR0

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
750
He isn't? Last time I checked Roxas does not have any conscious from anymore and Nomura spoke of the tormented ones "sleeping inside Sora's heart".

In-game they call them Xigbar, and if we go by the definition that Xigbar grew a new heart that brings us to the question where Braig's heart is.

Right, I forgot about that. However, he still came forward to speak with Namine at the end of KH2, so I have no idea what that entails.

I would imagine that Braig is in the RoL somewhere. Unless his heartless was never defeated.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Defeated or absorbed, you essentially meet the same ends: Reunion with your heart. Unless, of course, your Heartless hasn't been defeated, to which you end up being swallowed up by darkness.

What would mean "reunion with your heart" if the nobody has grown a new one? This new issue suggests that the Nobodies ceased to be incomplete once they grew a heart, so for what would then a "reunion" still be needed?

Right, I forgot about that. However, he still came forward to speak with Namine at the end of KH2, so I have no idea what that entails.

I would imagine that Braig is in the RoL somewhere. Unless his heartless was never defeated.

That was before he fully fused into Sora, "look sharp" were Roxas' last words before he went to sleep.

Braig is in the RoL? Then I wonder why he didn't pop up then in Radiant Garden.
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
What would mean "reunion with your heart" if the nobody has grown a new one? This new issue suggests that the Nobodies ceased to be incomplete once they grew a heart, so for what would then a "reunion" still be needed?

Needed or not, it still happens, as we can see with Lea and (eventually) Xehanort.
 

flurryflames

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
331
Location
So Cal
Right, I forgot about that. However, he still came forward to speak with Namine at the end of KH2, so I have no idea what that entails.

I would imagine that Braig is in the RoL somewhere. Unless his heartless was never defeated.

Unless Xehanort has his heart in his keyblade.
 

djam2410

New member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
120
the way that the nobodies lost their hearts, they were swallowed in darkness and "willingly" gave them up as they stated in kingdom hearts 2.....i dont think that you necessarily lose your memories when you have a heart as almost all of the nobodies remembered who they were without hearts (unless im not clear on when they gained their memories back); one thing that MAY happen is in the nobodies case, because they lost their hearts to darkness, they couldnt get back that original heart, but instead grew new ones based on their experiences in Org 13 ?
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
the way that the nobodies lost their hearts, they were swallowed in darkness and "willingly" gave them up as they stated in kingdom hearts 2.....i dont think that you necessarily lose your memories when you have a heart as almost all of the nobodies remembered who they were without hearts (unless im not clear on when they gained their memories back); one thing that MAY happen is in the nobodies case, because they lost their hearts to darkness, they couldnt get back that original heart, but instead grew new ones based on their experiences in Org 13 ?

(Most) Nobodies still retain their memories as Somebodies, that much is clear.

The typical heart of a Nobody is usually lost to darkness (Heartless). The point of the new hearts that were formed through connections to Xehanort was to change the Org into Xehanort.
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
Okay here is what I think. Xehanort planted small pieces of his heart inside of the Organizaiton members. This small pieces slowly grow into new hearts, but since they grow from fragments of Xehanort's heart then it causes the nobodies to slowly become forms of Xehanort. However when the nobodies got their original hearts back, I believe what happens is that the Xehanort heart inside them begins to consume their original heart, like a parasite, until their hearts become just another part of the Xehanort heart inside of them. Braig for example, even though he has his original heart back, the Xehanort heart inside of him was already consuming his heart even in BBS (The Yellow Eyes) and so by the time of KH3D the Xehanort heart has already consumed half of Braig's heart thus making Braig half Xehanort.

Think of Xehanort's hearts being inside of someone as being like a parasite, kind of like the venom suit in spider-man, eventually Xehanort's heart fragments grow until they completely consume the original heart of the person, thus in the end making that person whole Xehanort.
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Okay here is what I think. Xehanort planted small pieces of his heart inside of the Organizaiton members. This small pieces slowly grow into new hearts, but since they grow from fragments of Xehanort's heart then it causes the nobodies to slowly become forms of Xehanort. However when the nobodies got their original hearts back, I believe what happens is that the Xehanort heart inside them begins to consume their original heart, like a parasite, until their hearts become just another part of the Xehanort heart inside of them. Braig for example, even though he has his original heart back, the Xehanort heart inside of him was already consuming his heart even in BBS (The Yellow Eyes) and so by the time of KH3D the Xehanort heart has already consumed half of Braig's heart thus making Braig half Xehanort.

Think of Xehanort's hearts being inside of someone as being like a parasite, kind of like the venom suit in spider-man, eventually Xehanort's heart fragments grow until they completely consume the original heart of the person, thus in the end making that person whole Xehanort.

I wouldn't necessarily say that these new hearts are fragments of Xehanort's heart, rather that they're newborn hearts altogether.
 

flurryflames

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
331
Location
So Cal
I wouldn't necessarily say that these new hearts are fragments of Xehanort's heart, rather that they're newborn hearts altogether.

Wouldn't be surprised especially since it has been leaning towards that since he willingly let them have mind of their own. What doesn't make sense is why go through all that trouble in the first place? If he wanted an Xehanort army it must be too consume their abilies and powers as well.

When he says he wants an Xehanort army does he mean for all of them to look exactly like MX?
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Wouldn't be surprised especially since it has been leaning towards that since he willingly let them have mind of their own. What doesn't make sense is why go through all that trouble in the first place? If he wanted an Xehanort army it must be too consume their abilies and powers as well.

I'd assume that having an army of yourself would help you get a lot of shit done.

When he says he wants an Xehanort army does he mean for all of them to look exactly like MX?

Considering how Saix looks more like Xemnas than MX, perhaps it's just any form of Xehanort.
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
I wouldn't necessarily say that these new hearts are fragments of Xehanort's heart, rather that they're newborn hearts altogether.

But MX pretty much says that he placed fragments of his heart inside the other members of Organization XIII. In the subbed cutscene when he's about to turn Sora into his last vessel he says something along the lines of, "Now I will place a fracture of my heart inside the final vessel." But anyways he basically implies he as Xemnas placed pieces of his heart in the other members.

The whole point of lying to the other members about not having hearts is so the Xehanort heart fragments would grow and develop just as he intended them to, into Xehanort hearts. If the Organization members knew the truth then they would have become too independant and the heart fragments would have developed not into Xehanort hearts but into unique individual hearts. Roxas and Axel were too independant so they weren't suited to become vessels, if they ever had heart fragments placed in them then Roxas and Axel's strong individuality would have caused the fragments to develop into hearts of their own instead of Xehanort hearts, or perhaps Xemnas realized this and didn't bother placing heart fragments in those two to begin with.

Of course Isa and Braig seem to be the successful results of this experiment, while Xemnas confirms Roxas and Axel were failures, and implies that Marluxia and Larxene also failed the experiment, thus we can assume those 4 for sure did not have their heart fragments develop into Xehanort hearts but into their own individual hearts or in the case of Marluxia and Larxene they may not have had much development at all since Marluxia and Larxene didn't seem to keen on the idea of having a heart at all according to the novels.

He also mentions those that were too weak were failures, so I wonder if this include Vexen and Demyx and maybe Luxord?

Also I suppose we can assume that Zexion and Aleaus failed the experiment as well.

This is how I understand it at least.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
From what I gathered from Xemnas' explanation earlier it sounds more like that in some Org members new hearts were born, not that he planted anything by himself.
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
From what I gathered from Xemnas' explanation earlier it sounds more like that in some Org members new hearts were born, not that he planted anything by himself.

See this is the problem with early translations, not to mention Japanese can having a different meaning from what it sounds like in english. See in my mind when Xemnas said new hearts were born in the organization members, it sounds like to me he was saying that yes they got new hearts, but when MX talks, those new hearts were the result of Xehanort's heart fragments growing into new hearts for them, but these hearts were supposed to be Xehanort hearts since they grew from fragments of Xehanort's heart. And doesn't Xemnas say that hearts can cause new hearts to be born, so I think he was refering to his heart causing new hearts to be born in the organization members.

Like a flower that grows from a seed. A rose lays a bunch of seeds in the ground and the seeds grow into new roses. Xehanort lays seeds of his heart in the organization member and the seeds grows into new Xehanort hearts thus turning the members into forms of Xehanort.

I can't wait until the english version is released so we get an official english translation to clear the complicated parts up.
 

djam2410

New member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
120
See this is the problem with early translations, not to mention Japanese can having a different meaning from what it sounds like in english. See in my mind when Xemnas said new hearts were born in the organization members, it sounds like to me he was saying that yes they got new hearts, but when MX talks, those new hearts were the result of Xehanort's heart fragments growing into new hearts for them, but these hearts were supposed to be Xehanort hearts since they grew from fragments of Xehanort's heart. And doesn't Xemnas say that hearts can cause new hearts to be born, so I think he was refering to his heart causing new hearts to be born in the organization members.

Like a flower that grows from a seed. A rose lays a bunch of seeds in the ground and the seeds grow into new roses. Xehanort lays seeds of his heart in the organization member and the seeds grows into new Xehanort hearts thus turning the members into forms of Xehanort.

I can't wait until the english version is released so we get an official english translation to clear the complicated parts up.

so he was hoping for a similiar version of what happened with Ventus? with a partial heart fragment, eventually a new heart will come along that will help that new heart grow whole again? which might explain why he was looking for Ventus so much as he could try to figure out how he was able to have a whole heart again after he fragmented it, which might be where he learned haert fragmentation could lead to a heart being restored if another heart came along that was released from somewhere else (heartless or wherever else it might have came from)
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,531
Awards
37
Location
Germany
See this is the problem with early translations, not to mention Japanese can having a different meaning from what it sounds like in english. See in my mind when Xemnas said new hearts were born in the organization members, it sounds like to me he was saying that yes they got new hearts, but when MX talks, those new hearts were the result of Xehanort's heart fragments growing into new hearts for them, but these hearts were supposed to be Xehanort hearts since they grew from fragments of Xehanort's heart. And doesn't Xemnas say that hearts can cause new hearts to be born, so I think he was refering to his heart causing new hearts to be born in the organization members.

Like a flower that grows from a seed. A rose lays a bunch of seeds in the ground and the seeds grow into new roses. Xehanort lays seeds of his heart in the organization member and the seeds grows into new Xehanort hearts thus turning the members into forms of Xehanort.

I can't wait until the english version is released so we get an official english translation to clear the complicated parts up.

Exactly the reason why Japanese can have different meanings is why I treat everything we know of DDD yet with a grain of salt and a portion of caution.
That's also nothing against the translators and subbers who do this, they do their best, but still...
I remember that when the scene in the mindbonk dream when Sora meets Roxas was first released some early translations blabbered some nonsense about him referring to himself as Ventus etc.
I just had to start the scene, heard Roxas' theme song and listening to the Japanese sounds ("Ventusu" was never spoken actually) to realize the whole thing was bullshit.

That's what I think as well, we need this and, due to the vagueness on some things again, most likely also some stuff from Nomura again to clear things up.
Right now, I am pretty tired and my head hurts a little from nearly three days non-stop interpreting and theorizing.
I just hope we will get a subbed version of the second part of the normal ending soon. I'm eager to know what Ansem the Wise and Riku are speaking about for so long.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top