Story plot: When did Nomura stray from the plan?

[Org14Kurix(Riku)]

I've been reading the forums for ages (Since I was 11) and a common thing I've noticed in recent years is people mention time travel as a way for Nomura to stabilize this convoluted storyline. Basically implying he has been riding on the seat of his pants for awhile now. I'm wondering if there was a specific game that you feel like he just started winging it or is this all going according to plan? Maybe this was just a gradual spiral. I'd love to see some game references to back up your thoughts as well. I personally have no idea when he got tangled up but I feel he used KH3DS as a "Get out of Jail Free Card" so to speak. I do feel like he didn't expect a crossover game to generate this many titles and therefore didn't map this out in the beginning. The next saga should be more fluid in that regard.

Edit: I feel like my choice of words for this post may not be the best but I hope you all can understand my intent. I'm not meaning to insult Mr. Nomura or say we know best but am rather trying to get a grasp for when he began getting tied up in his own story.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I don't think Nomura got "off track" with the story, just that he has expanded it a lot and hasn't been very responsible in terms of consistency, seeing as how there are some details that have been introduced, but have not been properly addressed or brought back into attention.
Supposedly, Kingdom Hearts was going to be a standalone game, but after watching the secret ending of the first game, it was clear that there was going to be another story to be told (Chain of Memories). During CoM, Nomura was already planning the plot of the next game: Kingdom Hearts II. And after Kingdom Hearts II's secret ending, the Gathering, a trio of games that were meant to explore some mysterious subjects were in development:

• KINGDOM HEARTS coded - Those that are/were in "torment" (Terra, Aqua and Ventus).
• 358/2 Days - Roxas's time in the Organization and the background of Xemnas, Xigbar, Saix and Axel.
• Birth by Sleep - The start of the Kingdom Hearts story. It was meant to explore Apprentice Xehanort and his past.

So I don't think Nomura has strayed from the plan, seeing as how he already had in mind the plot of the next game(s) when developing the others.

 

[Gray Aria]

I've been reading the forums for ages (Since I was 11) and a common thing I've noticed in recent years is people mention time travel as a way for Nomura to stabilize this convoluted storyline. Basically implying he has been riding on the seat of his pants for awhile now. I'm wondering if there was a specific game that you feel like he just started winging it or is this all going according to plan? Maybe this was just a gradual spiral. I'd love to see some game references to back up your thoughts as well. I personally have no idea when he got tangled up but I feel he used KH3DS as a "Get out of Jail Free Card" so to speak. I do feel like he didn't expect a crossover game to generate this many titles and therefore didn't map this out in the beginning. The next saga should be more fluid in that regard.

Edit: I feel like my choice of words for this post may not be the best but I hope you all can understand my intent. I'm not meaning to insult Mr. Nomura or say we know best but am rather trying to get a grasp for when he began getting tied up in his own story.

I think it's the opposite. He didn't start with a plan and then stray from it. He started off "winging it" per se and then probably part way through developing KHII he probably started to really work out plans for the whole saga and make the story much deeper than it started off being.

So no, the storyline is not off track and never has been.

 

[rokudamia2]

What plan? I'm pretty sure he only had ideas for sequels and prequels (BBS, and Xion were ideas he had during development for kh2.) but not plans. Heck we know the ending for DDD was rewritten for one reason or another. At the time of Kh1 he had no idea a sequel would be green lighted. Another side Another Story was merely a concept video. So I'd say COM because there was no plan.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I think it's the opposite. He didn't start with a plan and then stray from it. He started off "winging it" per se and then probably part way through developing KHII he probably started to really work out plans for the whole saga and make the story much deeper than it started off being.

So no, the storyline is not off track and never has been.

My thoughts exactly. Chain of Memories was the settlement for the more "cinematic" experience: Kingdom Hearts II. I concur with you that, after KH2, he began visualizing a deeper Kingdom Hearts universe by expanding it with three games and later revising those plot-points with Dream. Drop. Distance. and paving the way for KH3.

 

[robvandam111]

And he already had planned the KH2 ideas from the looks of that Deep Dive ending from Kingdom Hearts 1. It's basically has 14 years since the release of his first game.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

And he already had planned the KH2 ideas from the looks of that Deep Dive ending from Kingdom Hearts 1. It's basically has 14 years since the release of his first game.

So during these fourteen long years, he's been planning on expanding the series.

 

[robvandam111]

So during these fourteen long years, he's been planning on expanding the series.

Since March 28, 2002.

[spoiler* Deep Dive*][video=youtube;cVWGCNlzbpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVWGCNlzbpY[/video][/spoiler]

 

[kuraudoVII]

I ended up voting "It was a gradual thing" because the original game itself went through multiple changes before we were delivered the final product that was Kingdom Hearts I...

...that is, until they decided they needed to add a Final Mix one year later.

IIRC, there were multiple changes that Nomura ended up making just in the first game alone such as having the various princes/love interests of the Princesses of Heart storm Hollow Bastion or how Chernabog was supposed to be the final boss atop Bald Mountain. Since Nomura ended up having to accommodate those changes, this eventually gave birth to how the game ended up becoming. So in an extremely weird sense, I went with the gradual change since this has technically been happening since the very first game which, in turn, paved the way for the series that enlightens and perplexes us in a way that doesn't usually happen in other series bar Metal Gear.

 

[Gram]

Nomura never really strayed as he wasn't sure if there's even be a game past KH1.
It was all gradual. As he finishes one game he has ideas for the next however there's also games he never intended to make.

Chain of Memories was the first game he wasn't gonna create. He done so because of kids in both there and here wanting it.
Days was entirely all Nintendos doing. They asked for it, he made it.
Coded ended up an idea on his part but it wasn't originally intended.
DDD was of course due to all the other games that came. So it was intended but due to circumstance.

The only games initially planned or at least that had concepts was KH2 (should KH1 take off) and BBS was thought up during KH2s creation.

As for fixing it with time travel. Nomuras done made that impossible due to how he's set time travel up. Xehanort says bluntly that he can't alter what's happened in the past. And we all know if he could that a man like Xehanort would.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Nomura never really strayed as he wasn't sure if there's even be a game past KH1.
It was all gradual. As he finishes one game he has ideas for the next however there's also games he never intended to make.

Chain of Memories was the first game he wasn't gonna create. He done so because of kids in both there and here wanting it.
Days was entirely all Nintendos doing. They asked for it, he made it.
Coded ended up an idea on his part but it wasn't originally intended.
DDD was of course due to all the other games that came. So it was intended but due to circumstance.

The only games initially planned or at least that had concepts was KH2 (should KH1 take off) and BBS was thought up during KH2s creation.

As for fixing it with time travel. Nomuras done made that impossible due to how he's set time travel up. Xehanort says bluntly that he can't alter what's happened in the past. And we all know if he could that a man like Xehanort would.

He would have gone back towards the aftermath of the Keyblade War and see what happened. I can practically picture this during a secret ending:
After “defeating” Master Xehanort, everyone leaves wherever the “final” encounter was. Xehanort’s body disappears, but suddenly, the scene changes to a right-side angle of a closed-up smirking MX that slowly fades away as bright fireflies. The credits roll, the KINGDOM HEARTS logo stays for a couple of seconds, it fades away, leaving a completely black screen and the Gathering begins to play. It isn’t a CGI scene, but rather a normal graphics one. The scene is subtitled, but not dubbed. Master Xehanort is seen walking in a completely blank place, approaching a door similar to those in Stations of Awakening/Calling. He opens it, the light blinds him, but when the light fades, the camera angle changes to Xehanort’s impressed face, witnessing the aftermath of the Keyblade War, ending the scene with a black screen and a voiced quote that says:
“THIS is what the War left us…”
Months pass, Nomura tells us that the next game is in the works and it’s about how MX is unsatisfied with the aftermath of the Keyblade War and decides to alter its results by participating in it. Somehow, this causes anomalies in the present time, worries Master Yen Sid, and he discovers someone is messing with the timeline because the history inside his tomes are changing by the second.

 

[Xehanort-X-blade]

i think he started all this in KH2 since all information about TAV in KH2 and ventus in KHDAYS basically nomura started the original saga we play now in KH2 or maybe chain of memories since the organization 13 were looking for the secret room

 

[Elysium]

I feel like KHII is where things really change for the series story-wise, so that's my pick.

I know that CoM introduces the Organization, but it feels like a natural development until KH2 comes along and makes Nobodies into an enemy type like Dusk, etc. rather than just bodies of humans or anthropomorphized characters that are left behind after a heart is stolen by the Heartless, along with the whole Xehanort/Ansem the Wise plot twist. I think this is the point where he started writing the backstory of the (new) villain, Xehanort, necessitating BbS and DDD--resulting in the "hurt" storyline (involving Xion, TAV, Axel, Roxas, and Namine), the time traveling, the thirteen darknesses/seven lights battle, and the Keyblade master ceremony plot that I hate.

 

[Gram]

He would have gone back towards the aftermath of the Keyblade War and see what happened. I can practically picture this during a secret ending:
After “defeating” Master Xehanort, everyone leaves wherever the “final” encounter was. Xehanort’s body disappears, but suddenly, the scene changes to a right-side angle of a closed-up smirking MX that slowly fades away as bright fireflies. The credits roll, the KINGDOM HEARTS logo stays for a couple of seconds, it fades away, leaving a completely black screen and the Gathering begins to play. It isn’t a CGI scene, but rather a normal graphics one. The scene is subtitled, but not dubbed. Master Xehanort is seen walking in a completely blank place, approaching a door similar to those in Stations of Awakening/Calling. He opens it, the light blinds him, but when the light fades, the camera angle changes to Xehanort’s impressed face, witnessing the aftermath of the Keyblade War, ending the scene with a black screen and a voiced quote that says:
“THIS is what the War left us…”
Months pass, Nomura tells us that the next game is in the works and it’s about how MX is unsatisfied with the aftermath of the Keyblade War and decides to alter its results by participating in it. Somehow, this causes anomalies in the present time, worries Master Yen Sid, and he discovers someone is messing with the timeline because the history inside his tomes are changing by the second.

That is a horrifying ending. Not because of how much more jumbled it's make the series but by how damn well you done it sir. =O

 

[Ballad of Caius]

That is a horrifying ending. Not because of how much more jumbled it's make the series but by how damn well you done it sir. =O

lol thank you, thank you, thank you very much, ehhehehe. xDD
Time traveling would have opened a lot of possibilities in the universe of KINGDOM HEARTS. Thankfully, Mr Nomura was prudent and decided to limit it. A lot.

 

[Draxem]

The limit on the time travel doesn't make up for shitty ass writing with probably the lamest way they could have possibly brought Xemnas and Ansem back. I'd probably be more alright with the idea that DDD was used as a get out of jail free card to bring the plot to a different place than that he had it planned because it is the worst bit of writing in the entire series.

 

[Seighart]

Before reading anyone elses comments il say what i think. I believe Nomura intended the game to end at the first, but because of how well it worked, he decided to expand on what is Kingdom Hearts. I believe people wouldn't even enjoy the series as much as they have due to the fact that the story is so expanded and thought inducing. To be honest, no other JRPG has a story legacy as vibrant as Kingdom Heart's.

 

[Gram]

Before reading anyone elses comments il say what i think. I believe Nomura intended the game to end at the first

That's actually not far off. It was made to end the way it did in KH1 because a sequel was uncertain. The secret vid in KH1 was in case a sequel came about. (kh1 was basically made to end right there or continue)

 

[robvandam111]

He would have gone back towards the aftermath of the Keyblade War and see what happened. I can practically picture this during a secret ending:
After “defeating” Master Xehanort, everyone leaves wherever the “final” encounter was. Xehanort’s body disappears, but suddenly, the scene changes to a right-side angle of a closed-up smirking MX that slowly fades away as bright fireflies. The credits roll, the KINGDOM HEARTS logo stays for a couple of seconds, it fades away, leaving a completely black screen and the Gathering begins to play. It isn’t a CGI scene, but rather a normal graphics one. The scene is subtitled, but not dubbed. Master Xehanort is seen walking in a completely blank place, approaching a door similar to those in Stations of Awakening/Calling. He opens it, the light blinds him, but when the light fades, the camera angle changes to Xehanort’s impressed face, witnessing the aftermath of the Keyblade War, ending the scene with a black screen and a voiced quote that says:
“THIS is what the War left us…”
Months pass, Nomura tells us that the next game is in the works and it’s about how MX is unsatisfied with the aftermath of the Keyblade War and decides to alter its results by participating in it. Somehow, this causes anomalies in the present time, worries Master Yen Sid, and he discovers someone is messing with the timeline because the history inside his tomes are changing by the second.

That's amazing. I felt like wanting to know more.

 

[Sdog]

That's actually not far off. It was made to end the way it did in KH1 because a sequel was uncertain. The secret vid in KH1 was in case a sequel came about. (kh1 was basically made to end right there or continue)

Good thing more came after the 1st, cause that ending would be driving me mad to this day.