The "Voice" in Station of Awakening

[chenoehii]

You'd think since that would be much more simple. .... No wait, but this is Kingdom Hearts, my bad. -_-

 

[Sign]

This is the quote that we usually reference, though the source of the translation currently escapes me.

1) Mysterious Voice

It's the King calling to Sora here. In the Dive To Heart, the King guides Sora through his dream, explaining the intentions of the adventure.

When Sora acquires the Keyblade for the first time after this (p.95) and just before passing through the last door of The End of The World (p.139), Sora hears a voice reverberate in him that sounds like the King's. It seems so that those around him understand without hearing, the King speaks to Sora's heart directly.

I don't think that's what anyone's doing, but I'm sure we can all agree at least that Mickey is canon until proven otherwise. If it is then it'll have to happen in KH3.

Moderators, since the thread's 'purpose' has been served, should it be closed now? Or not, we can keep ... theorizing lol

You can keep discussing in here if you'd like

 

[chenoehii]

You can keep discussing in here if you'd like

:biggrin:

I want to marry the 25 character rule.

 

[Anagram]

Actually, in this case, niether of them can be "fact". Just because Nomura stated it, it doesn't mean it's canon. It has to be either explicitly stated in the games or implied. Since it's neither of them, all you can do is assume. Since there's literally no proof of whose voice it is, anything you assume is a possibility.

Dude...are you seriously telling people to not take the word of the man that not only designs the series but thinks out it's larger plot and concepts? That's like telling a person to ignore the personal blog or words of a novel author about his own story. lmao

I always just thought it was a tutorial ghost. Something eerie to set an atmosphere. Nothing more, nothing less.

Diddo. It was a dream, it's an island with star shape and other weird plants, totally just tutorial voice. Literally just all a dream.

 

[Audo]

Actually, in this case, niether of them can be "fact". Just because Nomura stated it, it doesn't mean it's canon. It has to be either explicitly stated in the games or implied. Since it's neither of them, all you can do is assume. Since there's literally no proof of whose voice it is, anything you assume is a possibility.

Well it is pretty heavily implied in KH1 itself that it is Mickey (and definitely in KHFM). The voice references something Mickey says in his only cutscene at the end of the game, thus acting as a clue to the players to connect it. Then with the Riku scene in KHFM it becomes even clearer.

But you're right. Since it isn't laid out explicitly in the game itself, it is open to interpretation. Some interpretations are more founded than others of course though.

Dude...are you seriously telling people to not take the word of the man that not only designs the series but thinks out it's larger plot and concepts? That's like telling a person to ignore the personal blog or words of a novel author about his own story. lmao

You should definitely ignore the personal blog of authors lol.

I think what they are more speaking to is a Death of the Author sort of approach, wherein, at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is the text itself. Not everyone has access to blogs or interviews, so it is best for the text (in this case the games) to speak for themselves, and where they don't, they are open to interpretation and that is valid.

J.K.Rowling can't get brownie points just because she mentioned after the fact that Dumbledore is gay when that isn't entirely evident in the books themselves, for example. At the end of the day, the text needs to speak for itself.

 

[RoomKey]

Dude...are you seriously telling people to not take the word of the man that not only designs the series but thinks out it's larger plot and concepts? That's like telling a person to ignore the personal blog or words of a novel author about his own story. lmao




Diddo. It was a dream, it's an island with star shape and other weird plants, totally just tutorial voice. Literally just all a dream.

Yes, I am telling you that. Literally anything he says can be thrown out into the garbage unless it's actually part of the game. What if he told you Sora was actually evil on the inside? Or what if he told you Pooh was a keyblade master? Would you call that 100% canon?

Anyways, it's not like he has complete rights and ownership of the series. He doesn't even write it.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Yes, I am telling you that. Literally anything he says can be thrown out into the garbage unless it's actually part of the game. What if he told you Sora was actually evil on the inside? Or what if he told you Pooh was a keyblade master? Would you call that 100% canon?

Yes, in fact. If he said it and was serious about it, then it would be canon regardless if it was shown or not. Interviews are second tier canon and serve to EXPLAIN events in the games, not the other way around.

Anyways, it's not like he has complete rights and ownership of the series. He doesn't even write it.

What? Nomura scripts the base story. He might not get writer credits but everything in the game is all him, and the writers just put more words to the base story.

 

[chenoehii]

But you're right. Since it isn't laid out explicitly in the game itself, it is open to interpretation. Some interpretations are more founded than others of course though.

J.K.Rowling can't get brownie points just because she mentioned after the fact that Dumbledore is gay when that isn't entirely evident in the books themselves, for example. At the end of the day, the text needs to speak for itself.

Amen to that.

One of the problems is the difference between showing and telling. If you're just telling us something, either in the game or not, and if there's not enough material in the game (or whatever medium) to back it up and have it make sense then people are naturally going to be perturbed or question it. The fact is that it will probably never be acknowledged in the game now, so Nomura's word is all we can go off of for the sake of canon. Oh and, I almost wish Rowling had said nothing about Dumbledore and left it up to the readers imagination, provided that she had left more 'evidence' in the writing. Then it would have been an unspoken but understood thing which is kind of cool (that is, if you have a character that's not likely to act on his feelings.) The Mickey thing's kind of the same thing then I guess.

 

[Precursor Mar]

Doesn't Nomura just make things up as he goes along? I wouldn't be surprised if it was some random voice meant to create atmosphere and then he came up with Mickey when making KHFM.

 

[chenoehii]

Doesn't Nomura just make things up as he goes along? I wouldn't be surprised if it was some random voice meant to create atmosphere and then he came up with Mickey when making KHFM.

I don't know if we can be sure how far Nomura looks into the future when plotting out the storylines. I think we can assume though that he wasn't exactly sure where the story would go back when he was making KH1.

 

[Anagram]

Yes, I am telling you that. Literally anything he says can be thrown out into the garbage unless it's actually part of the game. What if he told you Sora was actually evil on the inside? Or what if he told you Pooh was a keyblade master? Would you call that 100% canon?

Anyways, it's not like he has complete rights and ownership of the series. He doesn't even write it.

Dude you obviously dont know how this series or Nomura works. lmao
His interview aspects are things that aren't explained in the games. One such idea later bluntly added was the whole recompletion business. And he doesn't write it word for word as in the entire script but he does do the story.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Doesn't Nomura just make things up as he goes along? I wouldn't be surprised if it was some random voice meant to create atmosphere and then he came up with Mickey when making KHFM.

I don't know if we can be sure how far Nomura looks into the future when plotting out the storylines. I think we can assume though that he wasn't exactly sure where the story would go back when he was making KH1.

It's a mix. He's admitted to making up certain stuff while making a game (which is a normal part of a creative process. too much forethought into something and the ideas can end up being stale), but he also tends to try to plan a few games in advance. Post KH1, he already had ideas for what eventually became CoM and KH2. During KH2 he already had ideas for BBS, Days, and some concepts for what eventually became coded.

 

[Absent]

Like I get it and I agree, in a perfect world we shouldn't need the interviews/ultimanias, but for this series we do. That's why I don't enjoy debating canon because I'm a firm believer that there's different "laws" on the medium and narrative.

Kingdom Hearts is one those series where we need Nomura's clarification. Case and point: The whole Sora, Ventus and Keyblade fiasco. If it weren't for Nomura's answer, a large amount of people would still believe that Ven is the reason why Sora can wield the Keyblade.

EDIT: The whole re-completion is another example, then came Coded.

 

[chenoehii]

His interview aspects are things that aren't explained in the games.

Yeah, this. ^

I mean, this is one of the main reasons (at least for me anyways) why people get really excited about the post game interviews and the Ultimania.

 

[BlackOsprey]

It's like what my English teacher told me years ago... If the reader understands the text in one way, it doesn't matter what the author originally intended it to be. While that was more about interpreting deeper meanings in literature, the same idea can apply to video games as well.

I realize that Ventus wasn't even created at the time of the first KH. I know that Mickey was confirmed to be The Voice by Word of God. I'm not trying to deny that these are valid points... but that being said, I can still interpret it in my own way. The "evidence" is ambiguous enough for me to do that, and in the long run, it doesn't really effect anything that much.

Nomura's interviews present one way to interpret these events. I believe all of us can create our own.

 

[Absent]

^Again not to repeat myself, there's nothing wrong with that. Just understand that if someone like the OP, asks you who the real voice was, the correct thing to do is mention the Ultimania interview where Nomura said it was Mickey, and if they're curious enough afterwards you can tell them your headcanon/interpretation.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

It's like what my English teacher told me years ago... If the reader understands the text in one way, it doesn't matter what the author originally intended it to be. While that was more about interpreting deeper meanings in literature, the same idea can apply to video games as well.

I realize that Ventus wasn't even created at the time of the first KH. I know that Mickey was confirmed to be The Voice by Word of God. I'm not trying to deny that these are valid points... but that being said, I can still interpret it in my own way. The "evidence" is ambiguous enough for me to do that, and in the long run, it doesn't really effect anything that much.

That idea can be applied frequently, but this will get you into a sticky place when actually discussing canon with other people.

If somebody has a different interpretation that goes against the creator's intentions and a group of people are discussing those specific intended meanings, time ends up being spent having to explain why the creator's words take precedent over the interpretation of the reader, and then it becomes a philosophical discussion on the merits of personal interpretations vs word of god and if there is any true value in either methods of deconstructing a piece of media.

While it is fun to get into a meta discussion like that, it strays away from actually providing answers to the topic question.

It is definitely fine for this to have a different interpretation, if this were a bigger issue, personal interpretation would overcomplicate things rather than gaining understanding of the issue.

 

[chenoehii]

One of the big reasons I have for wishing it had been Ventus instead of Mickey, although it was kind of cool in KH1 when this series was more Disney centric (I kind of feel like it's pulled away and become more original, which is a good thing), is that now at this point I think it would be more... I don't know if poignant is the right word for it since it's not entirely sad, but it would more "Oh, yeah, that makes sense" rather than "Oh, that's cool." Kind of like that moment in Ventus' ending when we realize what's about to happen and then Ventus and Sora's hearts connect, and it's like "Finally!!!" Most of us I think already had an idea of what was going to happen but it's another thing seeing it play out officially. Just like the screen panning away to show Terra with silver hair or Aqua looking back at Castle Oblivion. I wish the "voice" thing could be resolved with a feeling like that.

That idea can be applied frequently, but this will get you into a sticky place when actually discussing canon with other people.

If somebody has a different interpretation that goes against the creator's intentions and a group of people are discussing those specific intended meanings, time ends up being spent having to explain why the creator's words take precedent over the interpretation of the reader, and then it becomes a philosophical discussion on the merits of personal interpretations vs word of god and if there is any true value in either methods of deconstructing a piece of media.

While it is fun to get into a meta discussion like that, it strays away from actually providing answers to the topic question.

It is definitely fine for this to have a different interpretation, if this were a bigger issue, personal interpretation would overcomplicate things rather than gaining understanding of the issue.

Words of Wisdom.

 

[RoomKey]

Dude you obviously dont know how this series or Nomura works. lmao
His interview aspects are things that aren't explained in the games. One such idea later bluntly added was the whole recompletion business. And he doesn't write it word for word as in the entire script but he does do the story.

Again, I don't give two sh!ts what Nomura has to say or how he "works". If they're not going to bother explaining in the games then it's up to me to decide.

And I never said Nomura doesn't get a large chunk of credit for the game, he does. In fact, he probably gets more than everyone else. He just doesn't get all of it.

 

[Larxene012]

Again, I don't give two sh!ts what Nomura has to say or how he "works". If they're not going to bother explaining in the games then it's up to me to decide.

And I never said Nomura doesn't get a large chunk of credit for the game, he does. In fact, he probably gets more than everyone else. He just doesn't get all of it.

You don't need Nomura's interview, you just need the basis of how kh1 was suppose to work, what the purpose of mickey's reveal, and also the fact that the music was setting the mood more than the text.

once you understand that, you can se how mickey's voice was there, but then again, it was suppose to be a SURPRISE. kingdom hearts re:coded shows Mickey playing the voice for data-sora to teach him.