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Theory on How Xehanort Became A Heartless



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Relix

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Wait, Relix...I'm looking at the timeline now, and it's a little off. Look at this part:

She didn't say that. She just promised she'd come back someday, and the timeline doesn't even mention her saying that.

Thus, I think this timeline is just interpretive to an extent, and shouldn't be taken at face value. And the fact it says "Xehanort" stabbed himself with the Keyblade instead of MX is also strange.

The timeline is just a marker of sorts, to give a run-down of what happened and some insight to things we didn't hear or see, imo. Plus I don't see why'd they call him "Master" Xehanort when they already established they won't be showing him respect anymore.

But yea, it definitely could have been MX. I just don't think it would make sense for him to screw up. He's done it properly before.

He's done it with only his heart though. I don't think he'd know what would happen if he'd do it with two heart, hence the surprising results. Plus in Secret Ending he wasn't upset of what happened. He said he was patient, and that he had other tricks up his sleeves as if saying that it wasn't a setback for him. I'm just taking what the game said until something says otherwise.

I'm not saying that Terra was ALWAYS connected to Riku. I'm saying that just as Ven joined with Sora's heart to continue onward, Terra decided to become part of Riku's. And the scene of Xehanort becoming a Heartless was never shown either, so this part could come right after.

But you are saying he DOES connect to Riku in a way that has only been done by Ven and Sora in the most unique circumstance. The only way that the game itself has shown any room for Terra to enter Riku's heart is when Ansem SoD entered as well. Other than that you are assuming that Terra can connect to Riku's heart without prior knowledge of it. Ven met Sora's heart before in the beginning of BBS and that's what made the connection in the end more understandable. Now you're saying that Terra being in Riku after Xehanort's Heartless went into Riku's heart is less possible than Terra pulling a Ven? Come on now. At least give Nomura credit to make Terra and Riku's relationship more unique rather than an exact copy of Ven and Sora's.


Oh, and here's something I realized about hearts joining together:

*Ven joins with Sora, no change in appearance
*Xehanort joins with Terra, change in appearance
*Kairi joins with Sora (KH1), no change in appearance.

It seems that when one is being POSSESSED by another's heart, the appearance change, otherwise it doesn't. So although Eraqus is in Terra, his appearance is the same.

Yeah I think the appearance is changed if the hearts are acting together as 1 heart.
 

Absolute

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So, if XA was just a heart with a body projection for the most of KHI and then kicked out Riku's heart and took over his body, why does he have the artificial heartless symbol on his chest? He's in an actual body, so why the symbol?
 

jonXjon

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Perhaps Terra's heart is in Ansem SoD's body and when Ansem SoD took over Riku's body, Terra's heart escaped into Riku. That's just my guess :/
 

chasespicer056

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The writers put in those clues for their own reasons, probably to explain what the story couldn't. If it's in the game, and it's straight from the writers, I think it'd hold just as much validity as any other cold, hard fact of the series (unless this is an example of a terrible, terrible translation).

Food for thought: how does MX fail at extracting a heart inside him, yet XH can do it himself?

Yeah, I agree. I like to think that hearts can sleep inside the hearts of others, while hearts taking over other hearts changes appearances (with the exception of Rikunort, for whatever reason).

I guess the writers know what they're doing.

I never said XH stabbed himself.

The timeline is just a marker of sorts, to give a run-down of what happened and some insight to things we didn't hear or see, imo. Plus I don't see why'd they call him "Master" Xehanort when they already established they won't be showing him respect anymore.

He's done it with only his heart though. I don't think he'd know what would happen if he'd do it with two heart, hence the surprising results. Plus in Secret Ending he wasn't upset of what happened. He said he was patient, and that he had other tricks up his sleeves as if saying that it wasn't a setback for him. I'm just taking what the game said until something says otherwise.

But you are saying he DOES connect to Riku in a way that has only been done by Ven and Sora in the most unique circumstance. The only way that the game itself has shown any room for Terra to enter Riku's heart is when Ansem SoD entered as well. Other than that you are assuming that Terra can connect to Riku's heart without prior knowledge of it. Ven met Sora's heart before in the beginning of BBS and that's what made the connection in the end more understandable. Now you're saying that Terra being in Riku after Xehanort's Heartless went into Riku's heart is less possible than Terra pulling a Ven? Come on now. At least give Nomura credit to make Terra and Riku's relationship more unique rather than an exact copy of Ven and Sora's.

Yeah I think the appearance is changed if the hearts are acting together as 1 heart.

I guess he just miscalculated after all then.

I'm saying that Terra became a part of Riku just as Eraqus became a part of him. Ven and Sora weren't the only ones to do that. And plus, it's fine because Riku and Terra at least have a relationship already.

After he was infected with darkness, he cast his shell off. He said so himself.

Ah, that does sound familiar. Thanks.

So, if XA was just a heart with a body projection for the most of KHI and then kicked out Riku's heart and took over his body, why does he have the artificial heartless symbol on his chest? He's in an actual body, so why the symbol?

That's something I have to contemplate. But he IS in fact in Riku's body at that point. That's fact, not speculation.

If anything I think he just wanted to represent that he was in fact a Heartless. And back then there was no definite distinction of origin between pureblood and emblem. We assumed that Xehanort had made both kinds.

Perhaps Terra's heart is in Ansem SoD's body and when Ansem SoD took over Riku's body, Terra's heart escaped into Riku. That's just my guess :/

Alright, I'm going to seriously ask this:

Does anyone have any, ANY hints at all that Terra does exist within Ansem SOD? Or even Eraqus? They have absolutely nothing in common.

But Xemnas has so many similarities to Terra it isn't even funny...but my theory about him truly just being Terra without emotions is separate from this one.

Really though, I can't think of any signs of Terra being inside of Ansem.
 

Crystal

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Now this Xehanort, Apprentice Xehanort if you will, began experimenting with darkness and created the Heartless. However, in both the Ansem Reports and Secret Ansem Reports, Xehanort finds a sealed door in the castle, and it is heavily hinted that Xehanort used the Keyblade to open it.

So he could use the Keyblade still. But there's one function of the Keyblade that Apprentice Xehanort may not have realized. It could turn one's heart into a Heartless and split hearts appart. We saw this happen to Sora in KH1. He used it to release Kairi's heart and ended up turning his own heart into a Heartless.

I thought Apprentice Xehanort don't know how to wield a keyblade?
Eraqus keyblade is with Aqua.
Terra's keyblade is with LS.
MX's keyblade is disappear when MX stab himself?


Oh yes. Eraqus's heart is part of Terra's now. The reason why Terra stabbing himself the first time failed is because only Keyblade MASTERS can unlock their hearts. So he wasn't able to unlock it then. But Eraqus IS a master. So, Terra had him take control, and Eraqus stabbed Xehanort's chest, which released two hearts:

*Xehanort's heart
*Terra and Eraqus's combined heart (since Eraqus didn't have a represented image of himself in "hidden truths", it can be inferred that his heart is now truly a part of Terra's)

I thought is MX who stabbing? xD

Xemnas has Terra's desire to find Ven and refers to Aqua as his friend, and also has knowledge about the Room of Sleep's location which Eraqus had given Aqua.

Wasn't Xemnas is the one who built the Room of Sleep?
There was Organization XIII's symbol in the room.

By the way, i still like the theory :D
 

Pratiko

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Here's why I CANNOT accept that Terra and Eraqus are in Ansem SOD. Ansem SOD does not have a SINGLE trait of theirs. He only has shown traits of MX. If you give me just one example, just one, of him saying something that Terra or Eraqus would or doing something they would, then please do. Because I honestly can't think of any.
Terranort didn't show any traits from Terra or Eraqus, except once, and then they got locked, so yeah, figures.
 

Absolute

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That's something I have to contemplate. But he IS in fact in Riku's body at that point. That's fact, not speculation.

If anything I think he just wanted to represent that he was in fact a Heartless. And back then there was no definite distinction of origin between pureblood and emblem. We assumed that Xehanort had made both kinds.

Possibly with him representing that he was a heartless. However, he would have been a pureblood heartless, whereas the symbols were given to heartless that were artificially created. Wait, is that right? Its been awhile since KHI.

But Xemnas has so many similarities to Terra it isn't even funny...but my theory about him truly just being Terra without emotions is separate from this one.


The last moments we see of Terra in BBS has him showing desire to protect his friends, but mostly having unbelievable rage/hate/anger directed at MX. Then comes Xemnas, who as a nobody has to recall what emotions are to 'feel' them, and yet through-out the final fights, he specially only keeps mentioning rage/hate/anger in order to gain more power. Even his Cruella De Ville form's prebattle quote is 'Anger and hate are supreme.'
 

Nayru's Love

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So, if XA was just a heart with a body projection for the most of KHI and then kicked out Riku's heart and took over his body, why does he have the artificial heartless symbol on his chest? He's in an actual body, so why the symbol?
Just for looks, probably.

I never said XH stabbed himself.
I know, just food for thought. It's kinda weird when you think of it.


Does anyone have any, ANY hints at all that Terra does exist within Ansem SOD? Or even Eraqus? They have absolutely nothing in common.
XH's youth, as far as I'm concerned.
 

Relix

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XH's youth, as far as I'm concerned.

That's what I was gonna say. The fact that Xehanort's Heartless is young and not an old fart shows that MX and Terra are merged within Ansem SoD. If Terra wasn't in the Ansem SoD equation it would have just been MX in front of Sora in KH1
 

chasespicer056

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I thought Apprentice Xehanort don't know how to wield a keyblade?
Eraqus keyblade is with Aqua.
Terra's keyblade is with LS.
MX's keyblade is disappear when MX stab himself?




I thought is MX who stabbing? xD



Wasn't Xemnas is the one who built the Room of Sleep?
There was Organization XIII's symbol in the room.

By the way, i still like the theory :D

Yeah I'm still unsure of who stabbed himself the first time. I mean, the writers say its MX, so I guess it must be. I just find it amazing that MX didn't know it would have a different result with two hearts.

OH! WOW! Sorry, I meant Room of Awakening, not Room of Sleep.

Glad you like it anyway =D

That's what I was gonna say. The fact that Xehanort's Heartless is young and not an old fart shows that MX and Terra are merged within Ansem SoD. If Terra wasn't in the Ansem SoD equation it would have just been MX in front of Sora in KH1

But you never see XH UNTIL he possesses Riku's body. Being in that body may have just made him young.
 

Relix

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Yeah I'm still unsure of who stabbed himself the first time. I mean, the writers say its MX, so I guess it must be. I just find it amazing that MX didn't know it would have a different result with two hearts.

OH! WOW! Sorry, I meant Room of Awakening, not Room of Sleep.

Glad you like it anyway =D



But you never see XH UNTIL he possesses Riku's body. Being in that body may have just made him young.

So Xehanort's Heartless once he entered the body of a 15 year old boy...took the form of a grown buff man, instead of his heart being that of an already grown and buff man because it was fused with Terra's? Huh. I see.
 

chasespicer056

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So Xehanort's Heartless once he entered the body of a 15 year old boy...took the form of a grown buff man, instead of his heart being that of an already grown and buff man because it was fused with Terra's? Huh. I see.

I know, it sounds stupid.

But think of it this way. Even if it WAS the heart of all three and that's what he normally looked like, he SHOULDN'T have looked like that while possessing Riku. Riku should have just had yellow eyes and darker skin, sorta like what happened to Terra. But Ansem SOD was able to COMPLETELY change Riku's body.

So I figure that either way Ansem SOD was able to change the body's appearance entirely.
 

Absolute

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It could be like the argument with Roxas: it was Sora's body but not Sora's heart. However, Ven's heart was in there, so it caused Sora's body to look like Ven. If XA kicked out Riku's heart and took it over without any other heart to interfere, then its possible that it made Riku's body look just like YX's body, if the heart determines the body image. We know when a forced heart put into a body makes the body look like parts of the heart's original body looked like (Terranort with Terra's body but white hair, slightly darker skin and gold eyes like MX.) Also, that may not be the only thing that MX's heart did. It could have also aged Terra's body faster since Xemnas is suppose to be 30 but Terra is low 20s maybe.

of course, there is a possibility that when MX threw his heart into Terra, they were not merged completely. Speculation: Then, when Teranort used his keyblade on himself after Aqua fought him, that merged them. Then, when Apprentice Xehanort opened his heart to darkness during the heart experiments, it defused the hearts, causing mostly or all of MX's heart out which formed Xehanort's Heartless and Terra's heart may have stayed inside his body as he was a 'special' nobody according to nomura. however, the big problem is the role of Eraqus and what really happened to him.
 

Nayru's Love

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I know, it sounds stupid.

But think of it this way. Even if it WAS the heart of all three and that's what he normally looked like, he SHOULDN'T have looked like that while possessing Riku. Riku should have just had yellow eyes and darker skin, sorta like what happened to Terra. But Ansem SOD was able to COMPLETELY change Riku's body.

So I figure that either way Ansem SOD was able to change the body's appearance entirely.
Could mean that Terranort's case wasn't the same as Rikunort's. For instance, MX may have been trying to absorb Terra's heart, whereas XH wasn't trying to do that. Or, XH's heartless state may have influenced his ability to morph Riku's body completely/successfully remove Riku's heart. It's speculation, anyways.
of course, there is a possibility that when MX threw his heart into Terra, they were not merged completely. Speculation: Then, when Teranort used his keyblade on himself after Aqua fought him, that merged them.
Pretty much my basic thoughts as to how there's a difference between Terranort and Apprentice Xehanort.

Edit: On second thought, they probably merged during the heartless transition, at least according to Blank Points.
 

Relix

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I know, it sounds stupid.

But think of it this way. Even if it WAS the heart of all three and that's what he normally looked like, he SHOULDN'T have looked like that while possessing Riku. Riku should have just had yellow eyes and darker skin, sorta like what happened to Terra. But Ansem SOD was able to COMPLETELY change Riku's body.

So I figure that either way Ansem SOD was able to change the body's appearance entirely.

Remember, he booted Riku out of his own body. Riku's body was an empty shell and Ansem SoD filled it, thus giving Riku's body Ansem SoD's appearance.

And if you are talking about Rikunort, there's not much I can say about that except for Riku letting Ansem SoD take over completely rather than fighting with him. But Ansem SoD wasn't in control it was Riku so Riku was just utilizing his darkness granting him his appearance.
 

chasespicer056

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Remember, he booted Riku out of his own body. Riku's body was an empty shell and Ansem SoD filled it, thus giving Riku's body Ansem SoD's appearance.

And if you are talking about Rikunort, there's not much I can say about that except for Riku letting Ansem SoD take over completely rather than fighting with him. But Ansem SoD wasn't in control it was Riku so Riku was just utilizing his darkness granting him his appearance.

Exactly! I'm saying that regardless of what heart(s) Ansem SOD was made of, he was able to change the appearance of Riku's body so much that he could change its structure and apparent age.

But I think that if this theory is right and Ansem SOD is just MX's heart, then MX didn't want to look like an old man. He wanted to look more like he did in his youth, and that face was never shown (I know that someone used a code to show the face allegedly in the game, but I think it's fake. It looks too much like Terra, and if it wasn't shown in the cutscene, then they want to leave it open-ended.)
 

Relix

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Exactly! I'm saying that regardless of what heart(s) Ansem SOD was made of, he was able to change the appearance of Riku's body so much that he could change its structure and apparent age.

The thing is he can't change his appearance at will. Otherwise he wouldn't need Terra's body in the first place. Ansem SoD took the shape of what his heart looked like which is what we got, a young looking Xehanort a result of being mushed with Terra's heart in Riku's body.
 

Crystal

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Yeah I'm still unsure of who stabbed himself the first time. I mean, the writers say its MX, so I guess it must be. I just find it amazing that MX didn't know it would have a different result with two hearts.

OH! WOW! Sorry, I meant Room of Awakening, not Room of Sleep.

I saw it from Trinity Achieves, it says Xehanort who stab it xD
So, you mean Xemnas knows the location of Room of Awakening because of Eraqus' knowledge?
 

chasespicer056

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The thing is he can't change his appearance at will. Otherwise he wouldn't need Terra's body in the first place. Ansem SoD took the shape of what his heart looked like which is what we got, a young looking Xehanort a result of being mushed with Terra's heart in Riku's body.

But it seems like he can change it to some extent. Or maybe he just knows how to make himself older (that's completely speculative but idk how else to explain this phenomenon). Just looking at KH1, it can be inferred that Ansem was able to change the age of Riku's body to fit a more adult form, regardless of what heart(s) composed him. He didn't take Riku's body and then gave it up. He needed it. That's why up until that point he was always hunched over in a brown cloak.

I saw it from Trinity Achieves, it says Xehanort who stab it xD
So, you mean Xemnas knows the location of Room of Awakening because of Eraqus' knowledge?

Yeah I know it says that. I'm still a little shocked it was him, but oh well.

I don't see how ELSE Xemnas could know its location. Eraqus was given the information from his master when he inherited LOD, and gave the information to Aqua when she became a master. So since Terra doesn't know about it and MX doesn't, only Eraqus could, which means that Xemnas derived that information from Eraqus's memories.
 
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