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Thoughts on the overall Kingdom Hearts plotline?



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Scorseselover

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Kingdom Hearts is one of my favorite franchises of all time. But as a story? Ehhhhhhh...I’m pretty mixed on it. There are things I like, for instance Sora and Kairi have terrific chemistry and I hope it builds more in Kingdom Hearts 3, the overall visual presentation in a lot of cutscenes is absolutely breathtaking and captivates you in the moment, and each game explores the friendship of Sora and Riku Pretty well. But that being said there are a lot of things that hold it back from being The Last of Us quality writing. A lot of the characters make stupid decisions just for the sake of mellow teen drama (particularly Riku instigating Sora In Kingdom Hearts for “forgetting about him”, and Sora constantly whining towards Donald and Goofy in Chain of Memories, yeah I know how Castle Oblivion works, but think for Christ’s sakes kid!), 358/2 Days And Coded had no reason to exist until the end of both games but even then they’re irrelevant to everything else in both games, the more you play Kingdom Hearts 2 the more it makes Chain of Memories even more irrelevant than it already is, in particular at the end that just retconned Riku’ overall path in Chain of Memories, and unless it’s Roxas and Axel, each member of Organization XIII are not that interesting, all they say is “exposition exposition, riddles, riddles, riddles, darkness, exposition, heart, exposition, darkness, this is all very important for you to listen”.
 

Veevee

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While I also have mixed feeling about Kingdom Hearts' general plot, I have to disagree with a lot of points you mentioned. First of all, I have rarely seen so little chemistry between a man and a woman like with Sora and Kairi because they have so little interaction moments with each other and the interactions they do have are either about Riku or about making promises to each other about never forgetting each other and so on. But that's a matter of taste, interactions with Kairi always feel a little bland to me because Kairi (due to her appearing so rarely in the games) has not yet got the attention she should get from the narrative considering she is part of the SRK trio.
I agree on the idiotball teen drama part, sometimes it really feels unnecessarily forced, BBS does this so much it almost hurts. Three best friends forver we will never get separated teens get separated because they never talk their problems out in a way appropriate of their age and instead go blaming each other for failing.
And even though Roxas and Axel clearly get the most focus, there are other organisation members that deserve a mention. Saix has a past connection with Axel and probably wants a heart the most badly, we still don't know what Xigbar is up to, Larxene displayed a very strong personality in Com. Vexen didn't live long but made quite an impression as a mad scientist without a deeper moral complex. I know what you're getting at when you complain about those darkness and riddle speeches, but reducing everyone else than Roxas and Axel to these doesn't seem fair to me.
To be honest, I strongly dislike the way the story is presented in most of the games. I don't like Disney that much and I like Kingdom Hearts for its original characters, the basic story and the fun gameplay, so for most of the games I feel like dragging myself through stupid Disney worlds, reliving plots I either don't care about or that are usually a rehash that doesn't add much interesting (besides some pretty sweet interactions) and waiting for the juicy original story parts to come. The pacing was especially horrible in Re:Com, the game no one played for funny world exploration but for the story. I also find the story pretty stupid and unnecessarily confusing at times and sometimes it feels like Nomura added certain things because he wrote himself into a corner or because he thinks he's the greatest mastermind by making plot points more vague and confusing than they'd need to be (looking at you, time travel that got never actually explained). What I love about Kingdom Hearts is basically the characters and the themes to which I can strongly relate. Being tempted by your own darkness, not knowing how to deal with that, feeling regret for having acted in the wrong way in a friendship and trying to fix it, feeling you should never have existed in the first place but still feeling desire for a heart to prove your existence right ... those are pretty strong themes and struggles and I consider them mostly well executed and quite touching. And the story might have a few tropes, but overall the worldbuilding is pretty good and even though it's based on the old "good vs evil"-scheme, the borders between good and evil blur in Kingdom Hearts, it's not as easy as "light = good, darkness = bad". Protagonists become enemies, antagonists become helpers and I felt really bad whenever I killed a member of the organisation because I could understand their struggles so well. I can't think of the last game that made me feel actual sympathy for the antagonists and didn't try to illustrate how bad they are so I'll feel victorius and self-righteous when beating them, but Kingdom Hearts 2 always breaks me with this.
So, overall I think the story would need some changes and definitely a different pacing (and some characters need much more focus, e.g. Kairi), but I love what it does right. It hits in the feels, it connects you to its characters and it's fun to play.
 
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I'm not fond of the post kh2 era and hoping KH3 turns things around and shows me what im missing.

Lot of missed oppurtunities and wasted potential.
 
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The disney stuff is a double edged sword for the franchise because it gives a cool hook to attract a wide audience. It comes at a cost because people see it now as a Disney/FF crossover fanfic and don't put much stock in the original elements.

Granted that's more because the original elements aren't really used well so most amateur critics on youtube or professional critics just gave up on it.

It's still less confusing than Tsubasa resevoir chronicle so silver lining:cool:
 
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Moonlight Aqua

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The story is super confusing, but still pretty good if you play all the games and know what's going on. But I understand your concern. I hope that in KH3, they give more character development to the characters that need it the most.
 

Grono

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How do I think about the plotline? Well, I know I've done this time and time again, but there's never a bad excuse to get it out every once in a while :D

I always think that certain plot lines in the series could have been improved, and there's always something that bugs me about every installment. I guess the best place is to start at... well, the beginning. I'll be going in release order, discussing the additions and whether or not they irked me and how they did or did not win me over.

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The first game is a visual masterpiece and one of the best looking games on the PS2. They kept the story short and simple, and each of the characters was properly fleshed out in a way that made them believable. Every rash decision they made can be talked up to many of the characters being inexperienced fighters searching for themselves in this first game, and I was never annoyed with the OG trio's characterization at any point throughout the story. Great scenes such as Maleficent being stabbed, Sora sacrificing himself, Riku showing Sora Kairi's body in Neverland, Riku shutting the door to darkness, and so many more are found here, and it truly sits in my heart as my favorite entry of the series.

Chain of Memories, in my opinion, is when this series really solidified itself as a heavy-hitting plot series. Sora's characterization is much more fleshed out here, Donald and Goofy have to constantly make tough decisions on how to help Sora and whether or not it's time to just let him figure it out himself, and the villains are MENACING! Scenes such as Axel executing Vexen, Larxene emotionally manipulating Sora about the locket, Marluxia's relationship with Namine, Replica Riku's swan song (er, battle), Lexaeus smacking Riku on the ceiling, AAH, THEY'RE SO GOOD! This is one of my favorite stories across all of the games, and I just wish that the PS2 version came out before the GBA title so that more people would have experienced it before II came out.

Kingdom Hearts II played a critical role in the series, as well as many of our childhoods, and was the title that truly began to take these games highly seriously (to most people, anyways; still claiming that CoM did that first). The opening prologue in the beginning was amazing, and the moment Sora came back a sense of fun returned to this series that filled all of us with joy. While I feel that the Disney worlds were practically worthless in this title, and I was upset that Maleficent and Pete were so haphazardly thrown into the main plot, I felt the scope of this game as far grander than the previous titles regardless, and the nobodies were a formidable threat that shook up the series' plot in just the right ways. Great scenes such as Roxas' acceptance, his talk with Axel at the clock tower, Goofy getting hit on the head, Donald and Goofy being hungry in Land of Dragons, the sacrifice of Axel, Roxas' mind battle with Sora, Riku's reunion with Sora and Kairi, and Demyx's final blowout make this game incredible.

358/2 Days is an objectively terrible gaming experience, but the plot itself has its moments. It is funnier and more human than the other titles before it, having great lines such as "Roxas, that's a stick." and featuring a very world-expanding plot line. The organization members themselves seem to have a bit more of a personality, though things like Saix's relationship with Axel seemed lazy and rushed in this story. The scenes such as Roxas' discovery of Castle Oblivion and Xion's fight with Riku will always stay in my heart as classic moments of the series, though.

Birth by Sleep is... a mixed bag. This game features a great cast of villains in Vanitas and Xehanort, the former a crazed psychopath hellbent on destroying one of the protagonists to fuse with him while the other is his pensive master with the power of the universe at his fingertips, and also features some great moments from a new keyblade master named Eraqus and a return of Yen Sid and Mickey Mouse. However, this game lacks in its protagonists, who are poorly written to say the least. Terra has a terrible voice actor who's given nothing to work with, Aqua has an okay voice actor with nothing to work with, and Ventus... well, he's voiced by Jesse McCartney, so all of his lines that should sound terrible sound great. Nevertheless, this is where the series got complicated: apparently Sora can dual-wield because he has two hearts in him, Kairi accidentally got her inheritance, and apparently Riku was less of a "chosen one" of the keyblade and more of an inheritor. The ending of this game was absolutely amazing, and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but the events leading up to the end of the game were lazy, cliche, and a big drag to listen to and watch.

Coded doesn't have much to do with anything, but it's light enough that I've found myself enjoying it quite a bit, if not just for the fun gameplay in between the practically useless main plot. I think Data-Sora is cute, and Donald and Goofy are funny and sincere throughout the main story, so I consider it a win in my book, even if an unnecessary win.

Dream Drop Distance straight-up sucks, and here's why. Sora is fucking annoying as shit and is written and voice-acted terribly (I know what they told HJO to do in this game, and it sounds stupid), Riku's plot has been stretched thin despite his character arc being finished already, and Xehanort's plan is a cool idea that is needlessly explained way too much. The time travel business is dumb and makes no sense; why are there so many rules? Why not just assume that Xehanort had powerful enough dark magic that he could time travel or something? I mean, if Pete can go back in time in II, literally anyone can probably go back in time in some way. On top of that, the Disney worlds are absolutely lifeless, the characters are suffering major creative blocks in their writing, and, other than the intriguing set-up for Kingdom Hearts III, this game is fucking worthless.

0.2 -A Fragmentary Passage- was widely anticipated for me, and in some ways it did pay off. The things they did with how Xemnas knew where to look for Ventus and the state of Terra was a much-needed addition to the story, and I guess Aqua and Mickey saving Riku works fine... I guess. Mickey finding his keyblade was cool, but Mickey losing his clothes was fucking stupid. See where I'm going with this? For every thing that works, there's something that... bugs me. However, let's discuss the ending. Kairi getting involved is great, Riku immediately taking initiative, holding Mickey accountable, and going in to save her was great and totally made sense for his character, and all of Sora's stuff at the end of the game was great and much-needed for reminding us why we're waiting for III in the first place.

Kingdom Hearts X, Unchained X, and Union X Cross are great games that have way too much padding. For ever 15 story quests that you care about there's like 100 Disney related quests that plant you in Agrabah for the 12 millionth time over and over and over again. The story quests are great, and the fact that your player is the lone survivor of the keyblade war is something that I absolutely love. The PTSD thing he has in Unchained where he dreams of the battle is well-needed as well, and I can't wait for where it goes next. I am worried, however, that all the shit on this padded as fuck PHONE GAME will somehow make it into Kingdom Hearts III, and the end results will work about as well as when Square expected you to play the GBA game to understand the prologue of II, except catastrophically more significant.

Finally, there's back cover, which sucks and I hate it. It's bland, dull, and hardly reveals anything that's actually of importance other than where Master Xehanort's keyblade came from, what that eye on the top means, and that there's apparently a box and a bunch of books to look forward to III oooooohhhhhhh. The graphics are pretty, though.

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So, where do I think it is going? I really enjoy the fact that this game appears to be a celebration and culmination of all of the other games: the heartless, nobodies, unversed, and dream eaters are all back in (mostly full) force, and great decisions, such as bringing back Marluxia and Vanitas, were made. The game looks like the plot is going to be fun again, the Disney worlds are on a whole new level of immersion that has never been achieved before. Everything feels like it's going to have weight and depth again; I'm so damn happy for how it's looking so far. Also, yesssssss to Young Eraqus & Xehanort.
 
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I'm honestly fine with the plot. It's really not that confusing when you pay attention. It's just hard to explain to someone else. Like, my sister doesn't understand the HD collection titles even when I say it in the most simple way possible.

Sure, there are some big bumps along the way, but I can forgive those bumps. I've read much worse. *cough*ONEMOREDAY*cough*

The only downside to liking the plot is that I feel like i'm in a minority. That i'm wrong for liking it. And that just makes me feel sad. I love the plot, I love the characters, I love it all. But I can't say I do without fear of being ridiculed or told I'm wrong....
 

Smithee

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After KH2, the story began declining -- culminating in the shark-jump that was DDD.
 

Nukara

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I'm honestly fine with the plot. It's really not that confusing when you pay attention. It's just hard to explain to someone else. Like, my sister doesn't understand the HD collection titles even when I say it in the most simple way possible.

Sure, there are some big bumps along the way, but I can forgive those bumps. I've read much worse. *cough*ONEMOREDAY*cough*

The only downside to liking the plot is that I feel like i'm in a minority. That i'm wrong for liking it. And that just makes me feel sad. I love the plot, I love the characters, I love it all. But I can't say I do without fear of being ridiculed or told I'm wrong....

And is not the plot of the fans loved by the KH series?
In any case, you are definitely not the only one.
 

Pokie

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Kingdom Hearts :


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Kingdom Hearts COM :

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Kingdom Hearts 2 :

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Days :

latest



Birth By Sleep :

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Coded

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Dream Drop :

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A Fragmentary Passage :


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To explain the whole maturity debate, I think its more on par with "tween" cartoons such as Gargoyles/Young Justice/Bruce Timm's Batman from the 90's/Gravity Falls/Voltron legendary defenders/Ben 10 Ultimate Alien/the Last Airbender/Spectacular Spider-man/Danny Phantom etc than a traditional kids comedy cartoons or what is considered adult in the states (i.e Adult Swim).

Because there wasn't a traditional market for teenage cartoons in the states until recently, most of those cartoons were sold as kid's cartoons and marketed that way.

So KH is mature for a kid's demographic but not exactly a seinen or adult.
 

Scorseselover

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The story is super confusing, but still pretty good if you play all the games and know what's going on. But I understand your concern. I hope that in KH3, they give more character development to the characters that need it the most.
Well that little teaser in Fragmentary Passage could mean that Kairi could be a bit more useful.
 

Mensa

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i love the story in the first game it was very well done and flowed very naturally. the interaction between the characters was awesome and felt real. it felt like riku sora and kairi were really good friends on that island and the scene was beautiful which only made it all that much more enticing when it was all lost. anyone of us would have loved to spend our days on that island with our friends playing games all day. the trio felt like genuine friends. there relationship since the first game is nothing like it was and does not feel genuine. same with terra, aqua and ven i do not feel the friendship between them at all in the slightest. to me, the first game was an awesome fantasy and the other games are just....games lol kh 2 is praised for its game play but i bought it for its story and i was soooo disappointed with it. i have played all of the games and kh1 is my favorite but i think all of the games a necessary. i dont think any of them are wasted material they all give hints and clues about the story.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Generally said I think the KH overaching plotline isn't that convoluted or complicated by itself, but it comes over as such due to ineffective handling.

When collecting all the scraps and pieces together, lining them up and then putting some own interpretations into ambiguous parts you get a pretty endearing and enjoyable experience in my personal opinion.

This however requires somewhat of an extra effort both mentally and time-wise, which I realize not all people have the patience or options to do, which brings me to the issues I think are the crux of the problems with the overall KH plotline:

1. The presentation and execution of it is truly abysmal in some places, making you cringe when you can see before your own inner eye how it could be done much more effective and understandable.
2. Many additional information helpful to better understand the lackluster presented stuff is spread out across multiple media, some of which are not available worldwide.
3. "Shocking twists" and turns just for the sake of having them sometimes have the series undermining or disregarding its own foundations, foregoing much simpler solutions to reach a narrative goal almost every time increase the impression of unnecessary convolution.
 
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