Time Travel Time Line.

[flyingfishstick]

It was a rainy day and I had an hour and half to kill, so I came up with two crude timelines for Xehanort's various plans.
This first time line is just a general map of the series thus far, focusing on Xehanort's role in those events. These are the various paths that he mentioned to Terra.

This second timeline explains how the time travel played out in DDD. I'm assuming that their was no time traveling until just before the events of DDD and that the newly recreated Xehanort kicked all that into motion in response to the original Organization XIII being destroyed. I'm also assuming that the future doesn't exist in the Kingdom Hearts Universe. You can only travel through the past and as far ahead as the present,which is constantly moving forward. This is why the "present version" Xehanort needs to be the one who informs the RF in the past. Otherwise YX, Ansem, and Xemnas would only be able to travel up to the point when Destiny Island was destroyed and would be unable to be present in TWTNW. I got most of those ideas from this thread:

http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-3d/170010-making-sense-unexplained.html

The first step was kind of cut off. This is what it says:
1)Newly reformed, Xehanort ventures into the past in order to talk to the RF who has been waiting on Destiny Island. Xehanort tells the RF to visit his teenage self, pass on his ability to time travel to him, inform him that he must collect Xemnas and Ansem SoD and bring them to the moment the island slips into the Realm of Sleep. There they will find the present versions of Sora and Riku and they must follow them into the Sleeping worlds dreams.

I created these for my benefit as much as anyone else. I'm trying to grasp these concepts myself, so if you see any problems with these timelines, please let me know.

 

[flyingfishstick]

I realize they are too small. I'm trying to fix that now.

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

Maybe make them a little bigger. Those are insanely difficult to read at that small size, and zooming them in to a bigger size just makes the words blurry

 

[flyingfishstick]

EDIT: I think everything is readable now.

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

Yes, Very much so, thank you

 

[Chaser]

Terranort, or Apprentice Xehanort split the apprentices from their hearts 1 year after BBS. As the gap is 10 years, in KH 1 Leon says Radiant Garden fell 9 years ago.

 

[flyingfishstick]

Oops, you're right. That kind of brings up the issue of whether or not nobodies can age. That means Xigbar got his grey streaks after becoming a nobody, unless they are the same as Axle's eye markings.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Oops, you're right. That kind of brings up the issue of whether or not nobodies can age. That means Xigbar got his grey streaks after becoming a nobody, unless they are the same as Axle's eye markings.

That issue was cleared up with KH3D. Nobodies can potentially grow new hearts under the right conditions, and in past games it was always hinted at with the knowledge that Nobodies cannot age despite the fact we see aged Nobodies in KH2 nor can they feel even though we clearly see them experience a range of emotions.

Xigbar has a piece of Xehanort's Heart in him (probably since BBS.)

I'd assume the Nobodies we see get older all had hearts, or budding hearts at the very least.

 

[Luap]

A couple things that I see that I think are incorrect:

-RF doesn't wait on DI for 60 years. After traveling to YMX, he travels forward to KH1.

-reformed MX doesn't tell RF to go to YMX. RF comes up with the plan himself.

 

[flyingfishstick]

A couple things that I see that I think are incorrect:

-RF doesn't wait on DI for 60 years. After traveling to YMX, he travels forward to KH1.

-reformed MX doesn't tell RF to go to YMX. RF comes up with the plan himself.

Those two points were based more on speculation than anything else. You should check out the thread I linked in order to understand the logic I followed when creating this timeline. As for your first point, I like to think that RF gave up his ability to time travel when he gave it to YX. That’s why I said he waited around 60 years. I’m not so great at organizing my thoughts into well written and easy to follow paragraphs, but I’ll try my best to explain why the time traveling most likely begins with a recently reconstructed Xehanort.

In kingdom hearts, the past is set in stone, the present is constantly moving forward, and the future technically doesn't exist. You can't travel into the future because the future is blank. There is only the past and the present. The past cannot be changed, as it is destined to happen the way it originally played out. You may travel from your present to any part of your past, but you may not go beyond your present. However, if you make your past self aware that they are in the past, you may bring them back to the present to manipulate “future” events (I know….). BBS-Coded follow a linear timeline with no time traveling whatsoever (with the exception of Timeless River). Because his first and second plan failed to produce the X-Blade, Xehanort goes into the past starts mucking about with his past selves sometime after Coded. This sets the events of DDD into motion. A temporarily altered timeline (the one I tried to illustrate in my original post) is created that returns to normal once the time traveling session is over at the end of the game.

The RF is smart, but not omniscient. He could not have known the specific details needed for this plan to work without the most present form of Master Xehanort giving him that information. Unless he was made aware that he was in the past by a third party, the RF would not have known he needed to or have been physically able to locate Post Riku-Ansem and Xemnas or where and when they needed gather in TWTNW. YX would also be unable to travel to a point far enough in the timeline to pick them up.

Post Coded Xehanort knows everything that he would ever need to know for this plan to go off flawlessly. If it weren't for Donald and Goofy saving the day by pure chance, It would have worked too. Having Xehanort kick all of this into motion slightly before the events of DDD makes this convoluted plan a little bit easier to swallow and makes everything come together neatly. The RF would just have to know too much about a future that as far as he knows, doesn’t even exist yet. I hope this wasn't too confusing. If anyone else thinks they can do a better job explaining this, I'd appreciate it!

 

[sora's skyline]

I followed it and seems to make sense, I jut have one question. Who is RF? The robed figure? Is that what that means?

 

[Chaser]

I followed it and seems to make sense, I jut have one question. Who is RF? The robed figure? Is that what that means?

Yeah. For some reason, people call him the RF instead of Ansem SoD. I guess it's just to make sure the difference is known.

 

[Odium Crop]

I doubt that anyone will ever read this, but are the timelines here official or speculated? They just make the time-travelling concept, as I understand it, extremely complicated.

Is there really much of a reason for how the RF could not have told YX to go into the future without being told by Master Xehanort? This was a backup plan, was it not?

 

[Evello]

Those two points were based more on speculation than anything else. You should check out the thread I linked in order to understand the logic I followed when creating this timeline. As for your first point, I like to think that RF gave up his ability to time travel when he gave it to YX. That’s why I said he waited around 60 years. I’m not so great at organizing my thoughts into well written and easy to follow paragraphs, but I’ll try my best to explain why the time traveling most likely begins with a recently reconstructed Xehanort.

In kingdom hearts, the past is set in stone, the present is constantly moving forward, and the future technically doesn't exist. You can't travel into the future because the future is blank. There is only the past and the present. The past cannot be changed, as it is destined to happen the way it originally played out. You may travel from your present to any part of your past, but you may not go beyond your present. However, if you make your past self aware that they are in the past, you may bring them back to the present to manipulate “future” events (I know….). BBS-Coded follow a linear timeline with no time traveling whatsoever (with the exception of Timeless River). Because his first and second plan failed to produce the X-Blade, Xehanort goes into the past starts mucking about with his past selves sometime after Coded. This sets the events of DDD into motion. A temporarily altered timeline (the one I tried to illustrate in my original post) is created that returns to normal once the time traveling session is over at the end of the game.

The RF is smart, but not omniscient. He could not have known the specific details needed for this plan to work without the most present form of Master Xehanort giving him that information. Unless he was made aware that he was in the past by a third party, the RF would not have known he needed to or have been physically able to locate Post Riku-Ansem and Xemnas or where and when they needed gather in TWTNW. YX would also be unable to travel to a point far enough in the timeline to pick them up.

Post Coded Xehanort knows everything that he would ever need to know for this plan to go off flawlessly. If it weren't for Donald and Goofy saving the day by pure chance, It would have worked too. Having Xehanort kick all of this into motion slightly before the events of DDD makes this convoluted plan a little bit easier to swallow and makes everything come together neatly. The RF would just have to know too much about a future that as far as he knows, doesn’t even exist yet. I hope this wasn't too confusing. If anyone else thinks they can do a better job explaining this, I'd appreciate it!

In DDD Young Xehanort makes it very clear that he did come up with all his plans by himself, without MX coming back to tell him things. However, you're right, there's no way he could have come up with the plans without outside help, which Sora, Yen Sid, and Mickey all agreed on. All of Xehanort's plans were logical, but some of them required a lot of assumptions which no normal person would know to make. The key is Young Xehanort's subconscious memories. Since, in the future, Young Xehanort did learn about all of what would happen up to DDD, the memories were dormant in him and caused him to make or not make specific assumptions so that events would play out exactly as he heard they would. None of this was conscious, but he acted out his own script. There are several quotes saying as such.

Most pertinent, Young Xehanort specifically says time is immovable. Not just the past, time in general. The future is not blank, it is already set, the heroes simply do not know it yet, since no one has traveled into the future, since there is no reason to do so.

That said, post-DDD there are some huge contradictions in what Xehanort planned and when. I'm thinking about making a topic about it.

I doubt that anyone will ever read this, but are the timelines here official or speculated? They just make the time-travelling concept, as I understand it, extremely complicated.

Is there really much of a reason for how the RF could not have told YX to go into the future without being told by Master Xehanort? This was a backup plan, was it not?

No, these are not official. It's all hypothetical. And while going back in time and collecting Xehanorts as a backup plan is not a stretch for a brilliant tactician like Xehanort, it is a bit of a stretch for the RF to know that in the future Keyblade heroes will thwart every single one of Xehanort's primary plans in the exact way that actually happened, and the heroes will then randomly want to travel into the realm of sleep. That is an extremely specific course of action. Xehanort also knows that he will still be around to interfere with the theoretical Keyblade heroes' dreams. It's all just too perfect.

Also, Xehanort used Kairi to locate the Keyblade heroes' home world without any evidence that the Princesses of Light would be drawn to the Keyblade hero (which she actually wasn't, Aqua's spell was the only thing that brought Kairi to DI, and Terranort had no knowledge of that).