• We have brought back Future of KINGDOM HEARTS as our main Kingdom Hearts section. Discuss any projects including Phase 2 developments, the rumored Disney Plus series, all TWEWY-related news, theories about the future of Kingdom Hearts, and any general topics in this section. For anything related to Kingdom Hearts Memory of Melody, please discuss it in the KINGDOM HEARTS Memory of Melody section.
  • Although unrelated to Kingdom Hearts, we are aware that there might be fans of The Last of Us on our forums. We ask that you please keep all spoilers for The Last of Us 2 spoiler-tagged. Any untagged spoilers will result in a temporary ban from the site.

Unpopular opinions!



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

welken

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Messages
39
Awards
0
I'm sure it's been said before, but I have no issue with time travel in fantasy. To me, it's not so different from taking a portal of darkness from one magical land to another. Plus, there are lots of fun things you can do with how the passage of time alters setting and characters. My only issue with Young Xehanort and his power, is that, other than his own amusing appearances in Sora's era, nothing interesting was done with it. He could have been a little more thorough/creative with recruiting the new Org, given his freedom of options. Does go to show how invested he really was in his elder self's little ritual. I don't care about the consistency of lore mechanics, I just care about the effect. If you got wizards weaving through the curtain of time itself, make a show of it.

Given all the pieces on the table, I think a time travel theme for KH3 would have actually been really cool. What if Sora was sent all the way back to Daybreak Town from the start? That would be the most marvelous application of time travel, getting to do it as Sora. New body, better justification for starting off powerless. After completing the first act, he opens a path to the age of Scala Ad Caelum, and meets Xehanort and his doomed pals in their youth. Then later, you maybe see him in his prime, but eventually of course you'd jump to Terra's time, then back to the present, then perhaps even to the far distant future for the final act. Or, the reverse and claw your way back through time to the origin of it all. Frankly it sounds a little more graspable than the elusive quest for the Power Of Waking, and it could be visualized beautifully. It would be neat to see a couple Disney worlds with past/future versions. Tron, Wonderland, Lion King, Neverland, or anything potentially. Maybe most importantly, we could experience Xehanort's story and the history of the Keyblade close-up, in an organic way.

Of course, since this is an impossible fantasy anyway, ideally this game would have come out in 2010 on PS3, encompassing the stories of Birth By Sleep, χ, Dark Road with elements of DDD, all of which would of course never come to be. A different world- and timeline, where the Tokyo team stay focused on KH, perhaps by some mysterious force telling Nomura that it simply wasn't the right time for Versus.
 

Cumguardian69

Active member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
217
Awards
0
Here's an unpopular opinion: KH story is actually terrible, and each subsequent entry does a worse job than the one prior at bungling things up. The pseudo-deep crap about darkness and light in KH1 was bad, but the added fake complexity in CoM onwards just sealed the deal.

Here's a popular opinion that'll get flak on sight: KH is a gameplay-first series, because its story cannot carry the games.

And here's an unpopular opinion: KH command menu games should be designed around high level gameplay, with fast moving hard hitting mobs. Nothing is more exhilarating than needing to understand an enemy's toolbelt instead of mindlessly mash attack
 

SweetYetSalty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
1,318
Awards
1
Age
30
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
I'm sure it's been said before, but I have no issue with time travel in fantasy. To me, it's not so different from taking a portal of darkness from one magical land to another. Plus, there are lots of fun things you can do with how the passage of time alters setting and characters. My only issue with Young Xehanort and his power, is that, other than his own amusing appearances in Sora's era, nothing interesting was done with it. He could have been a little more thorough/creative with recruiting the new Org, given his freedom of options. Does go to show how invested he really was in his elder self's little ritual. I don't care about the consistency of lore mechanics, I just care about the effect. If you got wizards weaving through the curtain of time itself, make a show of it.

Given all the pieces on the table, I think a time travel theme for KH3 would have actually been really cool. What if Sora was sent all the way back to Daybreak Town from the start? That would be the most marvelous application of time travel, getting to do it as Sora. New body, better justification for starting off powerless. After completing the first act, he opens a path to the age of Scala Ad Caelum, and meets Xehanort and his doomed pals in their youth. Then later, you maybe see him in his prime, but eventually of course you'd jump to Terra's time, then back to the present, then perhaps even to the far distant future for the final act. Or, the reverse and claw your way back through time to the origin of it all. Frankly it sounds a little more graspable than the elusive quest for the Power Of Waking, and it could be visualized beautifully. It would be neat to see a couple Disney worlds with past/future versions. Tron, Wonderland, Lion King, Neverland, or anything potentially. Maybe most importantly, we could experience Xehanort's story and the history of the Keyblade close-up, in an organic way.

Of course, since this is an impossible fantasy anyway, ideally this game would have come out in 2010 on PS3, encompassing the stories of Birth By Sleep, χ, Dark Road with elements of DDD, all of which would of course never come to be. A different world- and timeline, where the Tokyo team stay focused on KH, perhaps by some mysterious force telling Nomura that it simply wasn't the right time for Versus.
I don't mind time travel either, I just wish it was used in a easier fashion. How they tried to tie everything together via time travel in KH lead to much confusion. It wasn't the time travel aspect itself for me. Time travel can even be fun, it's how you go about it.
 

Cumguardian69

Active member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
217
Awards
0
Super tangent, but I loved Riku Replica's inclusion in KH3, it served as a decent closure to Riku's character (assuming they do nothing more with Riku in the future) in a very Riku-centric way: no longer is he obssessed with wanting to be like Sora, but instead he's content with being in the background and picking up the slack when he's needed.
 

Rodin

Active member
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
856
Awards
0
Location
USA
Xion is a scapegoat for Days's problems but i don't think a Roxas centered Days was a good idea in hindsight. I liked Roxas in 2 but his segments gave him a firm beginning, middle, and end so Days just felt like a diminishing returns. I would've preferred a Riku or Axel centered Days instead. Granted i might've split the game into present and past portions. They are doing a quest in the present that has them revisit old worlds and actions. Granted that also could work for Roxas as Sora spents part of 3 wanting to bring Roxas back anyway. So we could've just got the ball rolling now instead pushing it back till 3.

I don't like how Xion was executed but as an idea she's fine. The best prequels to me are the ones that feel like genuine stories in their own right. So offering new insights is key and you need new characters for that.

Plus i like nobody ocs on deviantart so more nobodies is ideal. Check out Organization Untold on deviantart if your bored.
 
Last edited:

Guernsey

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
744
Awards
0
Age
32
Xion is a scapegoat for Days's problems but i don't think a Roxas centered Days was a good idea in hindsight. I liked Roxas in 2 but his segments gave him a firm beginning, middle, and end so Days just felt like a diminishing returns. I would've preferred a Riku or Axel centered Days instead. Granted i might've split the game into present and past portions. They are doing a quest in the present that has them revisit old worlds and actions. Granted that also could work for Roxas as Sora spents part of 3 wanting to bring Roxas back anyway. So we could've just got the ball rolling now instead pushing it back till 3.

I don't like how Xion was executed but as an idea she's fine. The best prequels to me are the ones that feel like genuine stories in their own right. So offering new insights is key and you need new characters for that.

Plus i like nobody ocs on deviantart so more nobodies is ideal. Check out Organization Untold on deviantart if your bored.
I sort of agree with this. It is also important to note that 358/2 Days was ordered by Nintendo as Nomura wanted to make a multiplayer game. I might be wrong about that one though.
 

Dast

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
508
Awards
1
Location
Luxembourg
  • The Foreteller
I sort of agree with this. It is also important to note that 358/2 Days was ordered by Nintendo as Nomura wanted to make a multiplayer game. I might be wrong about that one though.
Yeah, in the Days Ultimania Nomura says that the scenario stemmed from wanting to have the Organization members in Multiplayer.

Where did the idea to use the Organization members for the multiplayer come from?

Nomura:
Also, with all their attributes and weapons being different, it would be easy to show their individuality, so made a scenario where you could play as Organization XIII in multiplayer. After deciding that, when we were thinking about which time period we should place the scenario in, we thought if we cut out the one year that Roxas was in the Organization it would link well with the multiplayer idea.
 

MATGSY

Silver Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
4,737
Awards
2
  • Anguis Union
  • News Hound
Yeah, in the Days Ultimania Nomura says that the scenario stemmed from wanting to have the Organization members in Multiplayer.
Another reason for a remake on Switch, a better realized multiplayer mode. 'Cuz the 1 we got sucked.
 
Last edited:

Rodin

Active member
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
856
Awards
0
Location
USA
Some fans feel like getting rid of the Disney worlds would help the series feel more mature. I'd say retiring Sora would help more because he aged poorly to me. He's more Ash Ketchum than Tai from Digimon and his schtick got old real fast. He's the reason why I couldn't stay interested in the Xehanort saga beyond disliking Xehanort himself.

I reference Tai because Digimon was better at having its cast feel like real kids with normal problems than Pokemon was with Ash. Sora and some of the others could've benefitted more from that approach.

Instead of following the pokemon anime, they should've followed the manga instead as they swapped protagonists pretty often and it helps keep the quality up. I was actually into BBS more than the other parts because of the new cast, same with Back Cover.

I'm ok with FF being cut from a potential KH adaptation or future games. They feel more like a distraction or a downgrade from their canon selves. Granted I don't mind fewer cameos and more secret bosses.

@Guernsey
That's fine, I'm just saying Days's problems are more than Xion's presence . Removing her won't solve them on their own.

However i still think an Axel prequel would've explored the Organization better.
 
Last edited:

Cumguardian69

Active member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
217
Awards
0
Kairi is unironically redeemable. It sucks that I say this in a post-Xehanort Saga era, but I'm genuinely serious.
Please elaborate how Kairi is redeemable, using evidence from KH3 onward. Reminder that we are NOT in a post-Nomura, old-Disney KH time.
 

Rodin

Active member
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
856
Awards
0
Location
USA
Kairi can be fixed because we've seen it happen with Serah in FF13-2. That's why i think people were so gung-ho about Kairi getting her own spinoff- it worked for Serah so it could work for Kairi too.

The bigger issue is Nomura because his track record with Kairi has been pretty poor. A lot of the dissapointment with her in 3 comes from "13+ years and 9+ games and this all you have to show for it?" No wonder people are pessimistic about her post KH3.

An adaptation of the Xehanort saga would be an ideal way to fix her. Adaptations are described as potenttial "second drafts" so if your gonna fix something- Kairi should be top of the pile. Not really change how her story ends but how she got there.
 
Last edited:

KudoTsurugi

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
154
Awards
0
Age
26
Absolutely agree @Rodin
That was one of the main issues for me regarding Kairi for KH3. They do the opposite of "show, don't tell" with her.
They also did the same with Maleficent and Pete. Looking for that box in all their appearances and don't play a part in the final showdown at all. The only time they interact with the heroes was in the beginning. After that, it just feels like they're saying "hey, remember us? We're still here". I get that it's setup, but I was hoping there'd be some resolution.
 

Swing

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
139
Awards
0
I still think that KH should just be without Disney at this point. The series can stand now on its own two legs and the series doesn't even use the Disney characters anymore in a plot-relevant way besides Yen Sid, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy. And Mickey is also a big maybe in my eyes. Plus, for me, it seems that Disney is taken more and more control in what can and can't be shown in KH, which explains why the Frozen-world is so lackluster and just pretty much a scene-by-scene-retelling of the original movie.

I also think that the Disney stuff is starting to hurt the overall narrative of the plot and the emotional journey of the characters. I bet if we would get rid of all the unnecessary Disney worlds, we would have better fleshed-out stories for character slike Kairi, Naminé, and the Organization members.
 

Lulcy

Active member
Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
136
Awards
0
Age
24
Location
Argentina
Sora, Rikku & Kairi story should have ended in KH1, as the series went on the writing has been doing a disservice to them.
 

Cumguardian69

Active member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
217
Awards
0
^ Huge disaree
Sora, Rikku & Kairi story should have ended in KH1, as the series went on the writing has been doing a disservice to them.
Big disagree, CoM and KH2 did great jobs exploring emotions of S&R, Kairi has been trash tier since day one but seeing angery Sora and redeemer Riky is absolutely worth it
 

Rodin

Active member
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
856
Awards
0
Location
USA
Sora, Rikku & Kairi story should have ended in KH1, as the series went on the writing has been doing a disservice to them.
I'd probably would've used 2 as their last game and have the Xehanort saga be Ven/Terra/Aqua's story only. Then pass the torch onto the foretellers then Yozora etc.

It's how the pokemon adventures manga handled it versus the anime and I prefer it. Its also too simplistic given how the series turned out but its worth thinking about. If you wanted to give Roxas the lead role in 2 but couldn't figure why Donald and Goofy would travel with him- than just find him another Disney companion (s)
 
Last edited:

Dast

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
508
Awards
1
Location
Luxembourg
  • The Foreteller
I don't think Saïx not explicitly talking about his betrayal of the Organization to atone was a failure of the writing.

First, I like how his betrayal is hinted at in the game ( I love the shot of Roxas pointing his Keyblade towards Xemnas and Saïx when he says 'and others too') and then Vexen's Secret Report allows you to work it out for sure but it never straight out tells you so it's something you can work out.
Secondly, I think him not admitting that he was helping Axel and preferring to play the part of an enemy until his defeat makes sense for him. He's a very reserved guy, which you can see even when he's a kid in BBS, so I can see him finding being honest about his personal feelings harder than pretending to be the cold, cruel person he became in the original Organisation.

I do feel maybe something could have been added in Re Mind to show his true intentions more clearly and am not defending tacking Subject X onto his and Axel's backstory though.
 
Top