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Vanitas' Novel Backstory



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Relix

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Really makes you think about just how black and white characters in KH look at things. And...I killed so many damn unversed ;-; tens of thousands of them. I never thought I'd feel anything for Vanitas...but damn

...If 3D moves the KH plot along...would it be selfish of me to ask that BBSv2 be character based and fill in holes that the other games left open. It wouldn't hurt to see just how humane all these characters are and just what are going through their heads. Everyone has their own troubles and level of troubles...Vanitas was no exception...and neither was Repliku. ;-; As twisted as Vanitas became...he still felt. He wasn't emotionless.
 

Unrequited Lust

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I have a strong hunch that Vanitas' Lingering Sentiment will return.

I don't think any of these themes will come out though. Between Disney and Nomura, I don't think things with this much emotional baggage and dark themes will ever see the light of day. But who knows. Nomura might cave in to fans, and they used a lot of exclusive novel content for Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix.
 

Neptun

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damn, kinda sad considering Birth by Sleep got so many prices for killing large amount of unversed. You receive the keyslinger-trophy for killing exactly ten thousand Unversed , for god's sake.

but well, most of this was easily deduceable from Vanitas' dialouge with Ven. "The unversed, they are what I feel. Every time they are destroyed their negativity flows right back into me". Not to mention that the Unversed even absorb the negative emotions of other humans, sending those to Vanitas, too. they really could have done something with that.
Am I the only one now kinda sad that neither Vanitas nor Repliku were among the ones to be saved by Sora? They pretty damn have a reason, at least more of a reason than Xion...

edit: hey, with this implied crisis Vanitas is living through, Xehanort telling him to "take back what Ventus owes you" during the climax makes even more sense.
 
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Chaser

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This needs to be a scenario in BBSv2. I can't believe they kept this for a novel, where half the things in there aren't canon. It's such a shame, really.
Now I'm left wondering, since they had such amazing ideas for this game, why they didn't make it two disc or keep it on the PS3.

Am I the only one now kinda sad that neither Vanitas nor Repliku were among the ones to be saved by Sora?
Not really.
And I find it funny that, if this is the case, of all the characters in KH that are meant to be saved, the two with some of the most torment will not be. Vanitas and Repliku.
Like Grass said, it is pretty sad that out of all of those that need saving, the two who need it the most won't. Repliku is dead and Vanitas is practically non-existant.
 

rokudamia2

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If this was in the games i might consider vanitas more then pointless filler.


to bad canon wise he is.
 

Roxas891011V

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I would love to see this story in the game because I loved reading that. It made me really sad and emotional and feel more for Vanitas. I loved Vanitas in BBS he was one of my favorite parts of it. So to see him get more development like that would be amazing.
 

Ikkin

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Now I'm left wondering, since they had such amazing ideas for this game, why they didn't make it two disc or keep it on the PS3.

I think it has less to do with not having enough space/technical capacity and more to do with the question of... how would any of the Land of Departure trio find out about this?

Vanitas, as he appears in the game, just isn't bitter enough to go ranting to Ven about how much he hates him and how much pain he's in every moment of his life. He honestly seems to be enjoying himself most of the time when he's messing with Aqua and Ven.

This type of thing only works as a backstory for canon!Vanitas if Vanitas has gotten over a lot of it -- and if Vanitas got over it, he's certainly not going to tell anyone about it, because he'd consider it weakness and he hates weakness.
 

Chaser

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you can see from early trailers, the story was a bit different. It was going to end the same way but the journey would have changed.
Finding out about Vanitas' past could have come from more Flashbacks from MX or the ever wise Yen Sid.

The information in the game sort of links with this, which shows that they had this planned. Something in development changed this, whether it be hardware issues or lack of space(which they say is grately smaller than what can fit onto the disc).
 

Xammag

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If this was in the games i might consider vanitas more then pointless filler.


to bad canon wise he is.

I don't ever see him as a pointless part of the plot. Granted, I didn't feel much sympathy for him before this, but he has always been threatening the livelihood (and sanity) of the characters, a device for apocalyptic destruction, and a manical kid. You can't help but feel sorry for him when he grasps at the X-blade though. :(
 

Cheaken

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Tomoco Kanemaki(she writes the novels) should help write the story for KH. The series' story would probably be better. If the novels really are canon though, I really pity Vanitas.
 
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Ikkin

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This is from earlier in the thread, but:

I don't think any of these themes will come out though. Between Disney and Nomura, I don't think things with this much emotional baggage and dark themes will ever see the light of day. But who knows. Nomura might cave in to fans, and they used a lot of exclusive novel content for Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix.

What.

Are we talking about the same Nomura here?

You know, the one with recurring "kill your best friend" and suicide motifs? The one who showed Ven being treated like trash by Master Xehanort, and Namine being abused first by Marluxia and Larxene and then by DiZ? The same one who showed Riku as a self-destructive, terrified wreck in Chain of Memories and Riku Replica as a bitter, mistreated pawn? The same Nomura who decided that Terra's fall to darkness should be a process of repeated traumatization and bodily invasion instead of a series of bad choices leading to a fall down the slippery slope?

If Nomura's against this, it's certainly not because it's too dark for him. XD;
 

Theart

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Damn. If that's canon material for Vanitas' background... Vanitas may have just taken the head spot for favorite KH male character for me.

This had better be a scenario in BBSv2.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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He isn't crumpled over, trying to compose himself in between fights with Aqua and Ven; if the deaths of the Unversed still hurt him, he's long gotten used to it. His hatred drives him to kill, and to enjoy killing, anyone who has what he doesn't. He's sadistic and irredeemable and utterly, utterly pitiable, and he needs to be put down as much for his own good as for the good of the worlds.

You can't tell me that after a boss Unversed battle, Vanitas didn't feel a bit more pain than normal. The small-fry like the Floods, Scrappers, and Jellyshades would probably do nothing...but something as behemoth as the Iron Imprisioners and even the Unversed formed through Vanitas because of the negative emotions of others...Those must have caused some kind of extreme pain.

Really makes you think about just how black and white characters in KH look at things. And...I killed so many damn unversed ;-; tens of thousands of them. I never thought I'd feel anything for Vanitas...but damn

...If 3D moves the KH plot along...would it be selfish of me to ask that BBSv2 be character based and fill in holes that the other games left open. It wouldn't hurt to see just how humane all these characters are and just what are going through their heads. Everyone has their own troubles and level of troubles...Vanitas was no exception...and neither was Repliku. ;-; As twisted as Vanitas became...he still felt. He wasn't emotionless.

No, it wouldn't be selfish at all. :3 I think this is what we are all wishing for.

I have a strong hunch that Vanitas' Lingering Sentiment will return.

I don't think any of these themes will come out though. Between Disney and Nomura, I don't think things with this much emotional baggage and dark themes will ever see the light of day. But who knows. Nomura might cave in to fans, and they used a lot of exclusive novel content for Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix.

Haha, Nomura is the one who approves the novels. He honestly has no problem with these kinds of themes. Also, considering BBS was one big sob story, he really has no problem playing with people's heartstrings.

There are themes of suicide (stabbing yourself with a giant key), child abuse (Ven being abused by MX), manslaughter (Sora pretty much enthusiastic about killing the Organization), genocide (the destruction of entire worlds), murder (MX stabbing ME), torture (MX torturing Ven with the Heartless; whatever the Apprentices did during their experiments with whoever ended up in those cells under RG)...and I could keep going...I'll start talking about libel, human trafficking, and kidnapping.

Nomura has no qualms about dark themes. I'm sure if he cared about parents enough, there would be patricide...and technically there is with Terra trying to defeat Master Eraqus.

This needs to be a scenario in BBSv2. I can't believe they kept this for a novel, where half the things in there aren't canon. It's such a shame, really.
Now I'm left wondering, since they had such amazing ideas for this game, why they didn't make it two disc or keep it on the PS3.

I'm pretty sure somebody smart at SE was like "Rework the story so it can be as basic as possible"

If this was in the games i might consider vanitas more then pointless filler.

to bad canon wise he is.

He is filler, but at the same time he isn't. I think his existence was to show that there can be beings of Pure Darkness and that there aren't just Nobodies and Heartless out there in the universe.

you can see from early trailers, the story was a bit different. It was going to end the same way but the journey would have changed.
Finding out about Vanitas' past could have come from more Flashbacks from MX or the ever wise Yen Sid.

The information in the game sort of links with this, which shows that they had this planned. Something in development changed this, whether it be hardware issues or lack of space(which they say is grately smaller than what can fit onto the disc).

I still feel really sad when I look at earlier trailers and then I look at what we got.

The UMD had enough room for one more world and some cutscenes, actually....if I remember correctly. Easily they could have fit in more story and longer world gameplay.

Tomoco Kanemaki(he writes the novels) should help write the story for KH. The series' story would probably be better. If the novels really are canon though, I really pity Vanitas.

She was a scenario writer in Days. And the novels are partial canon. The new information you gain from it can be considered canon if you wish, but since only one audience gets to read them (the Japanese and those who can read Japanese and the lucky people like us who find these translations) it isn't all that fair to make it legit canon.

An example would be from the KH2 novels where Namine hints at the fact Axel is a Somebody again. She tells that when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, the Somebody is formed again...and she said something about maybe Axel can be met again.

I believe this information was said before Nomura said it in an interview, and waaaay before it was confirmed in Re:coded that Heartless destroyed + Nobody destroyed = Somebody.

lol.
She was a scenario writer for one of the games.

Days.

Yeah...and that was pretty bad. But so was Watanabe...and it was still bad.

I think if Kanemaki was allowed the freedom she is with the novels with close supervision from Nomura, a really good story could be made for a future Kingdom Hearts game.

And then again, I think her style is meant more for novels...
 

Sephiroth0812

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A very interesting and benefitting find...information like this makes my disappointment that the novels aren't released in NA and EU even bigger.
With this Vanitas finally becomes more than just a concept trolling around in the BBS-game. Not to mention the apparently also vast additional and important info we get on Master Xehanort and Ventus as well.
Now I'm really looking forward to read goldpanner's translations of the novels and how intense these scenes really are (the text in the link is written more like a summary).

I'll be completely honest, my sympathy and fondness for Ven skyrocketed even more and now I can also relate to Vanitas in a more "positive" view than just the pure evil mofo who relishes in seeing others (and especially Ven) suffer.
Not to misunderstand, he's still a sadistic crazy bastard whose actions are detestable and still to condemn...but in the whole overall picture the real culprit comes down to be Master Xehanort in every possible way.
Vanitas becoming so twisted and hateful over time because while he knows that friendship and love exist he never experiences it for himself, so he decides no one else shall be able to enjoy what he's denied somehow reminds me quite a bit of Kuja after Garlant tells him he's mortal...if he can't live, so no one else should.

Master Xehanort...heck, is there one single original character (apart from Hayner, Pence and Olette) who didn't get a whole truckload of agony from him?
Now I despise him even more...which is good because that shows MX is a splendid main villain.

---
Aren't the novels considered second-tier canon anyways?
As long as they don't contradict what the games and Nomura himself state and complement the games the content should be canon, shouldn't it?
I mean they're officially sanctioned by SE and surely more "canon"-relevant than the manga ever will.

I agree with some of the foregoing statements though, it's a pity we didn't get such interesting and well written information during the actual game. It would have served the character development of Vanitas, Ven and MX very well.
As for when seeing Vanitas's own story within the game, it would have been pretty easy to put that as a flashback-cutscene in-between Ventus destroying the x-blade and Ven's heart getting heavily injured.
Like when Vanitas frantically tries to grasp the x-blade his mental walls crumble and Ven gets access to Van's memories shortly, seeing the story as a bystander like Sora with Kairi's memories in KH 1.
 

Ikkin

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You can't tell me that after a boss Unversed battle, Vanitas didn't feel a bit more pain than normal. The small-fry like the Floods, Scrappers, and Jellyshades would probably do nothing...but something as behemoth as the Iron Imprisioners and even the Unversed formed through Vanitas because of the negative emotions of others...Those must have caused some kind of extreme pain.

But if he was using them to train against, wouldn't he have worked his way up to fighting the big ones himself, too? He didn't seem to be in pain when he absorbed that giant three-part Unversed back into himself in front of Ven, which would have presumably killed it. =/


I'll start talking about libel, human trafficking, and kidnapping.

I agree with you on the basic principle here, but... libel and human trafficking? What? XD


I'm pretty sure somebody smart at SE was like "Rework the story so it can be as basic as possible"

I agree... because as interesting as this is, it would make for a far less streamlined story. =/


He is filler, but at the same time he isn't. I think his existence was to show that there can be beings of Pure Darkness and that there aren't just Nobodies and Heartless out there in the universe.

I'm a bit confused by the "Vanitas is filler" thing, honestly. Unless you think that the only non-filler part of BbS is Terra getting his body stolen, he's intrinsically linked with the plot of the game.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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But if he was using them to train against, wouldn't he have worked his way up to fighting the big ones himself, too? He didn't seem to be in pain when he absorbed that giant three-part Unversed back into himself in front of Ven, which would have presumably killed it. =/

But he had only absorbed it. He didn't attack it like the novels depicted him doing to his Unversed. I would think absorbing it is a bit different from him actually killing it.

I agree with you on the basic principle here, but... libel and human trafficking? What? XD

Xehanort's Heartless uses Ansem's name and practically creates slander against Ansem the Wise.

Libel - • a false and malicious statement about a person; a thing or circumstance that brings undeserved discredit on a person by misrepresentation.

And Vanitas and Ventus were practically slaves being used for a goal. Then MX gives Ven to Master Eraqus. So I admit the human trafficking thing is a bit of a stretch, but it is close...right? And I can't think of any other way to describe them except as chattel.

I agree... because as interesting as this is, it would make for a far less streamlined story. =/

:| Yeah. Oh well...There are still three more games...We might get something there.

I'm a bit confused by the "Vanitas is filler" thing, honestly. Unless you think that the only non-filler part of BbS is Terra getting his body stolen, he's intrinsically linked with the plot of the game.

Well, the whole idea of Unversed. The KH team didn't really need to make them. And Vanitas, while being a pretty important part of the plot, was a big troll in the game. He had no story (prior to the novel) and was just pure evil with no meaning to him except to become a weird key.
 
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