Ven Is Master of Masters / Vanitas Is "Darkness"



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

Face My Fears

She's not an "it"!
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
3,462
Awards
0
I saw a lot of people commenting that Ven could be the Master of Masters. I haven't really seen much of what he's done in the KHUx games, but the thing that makes me think it's possible is the entity known as "Darkness". This entity told Maleficent about the box and how to travel through time. In KH3, the conversation between Ven and Vanitas is interesting where Vanitas makes it abundantly clear that he "chose darkness" and Ven was "OK with that". Sora didn't seem to get that and to be honest, I didn't either. However, if Ven is the MoM, that would mean that Vanitas could travel into the past as he is technically part of Ven's heart. Also, the past Ven would be normal and not fully light like Ven in KH3. Perhaps that's why "Darkness" doesn't show his identity and/or doesn't have a real form? This would explain how Vanitas knew where Ven's heart was without any Organization member actually searching/gathering information on where his heart could be (and hence fulfilling the MoM's plan). It also falls in line with the MoM being "tired" and hence purposefully taking a nap in Sora until his plan could come into effect. Also, the whole charade of the quickie summon of Kingdom Hearts that Master Xehanort attempted in BbS would have been the ultimate temptation for Master Xehanort to go full force to actually assemble 13 darknesses and 7 lights down the road once that plan failed -- coincidentally Ven/Vanitas were the key players in the plan, so control over the situation was somewhat left to them.

Thoughts? If anyone knows what Ven does in KHUx, can you please let me know so I can see if it helps/destroys this theory?
 

okhi12

Active member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
216
Awards
0
Location
Spain
I don't think Ventus was fully light in KH3, after their last battle in BBS Vanitas's heart merged with Ven's station of awakening and ''updated'' it, indicating that he recovered what he lost and became whole again.
KH3 Vanitas was just a time traveling heart in a replica body. Present time Vanitas exists no more, unless Nomura decides to bring him back for some reason.
 

Genocide

All you need to know.
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
9,747
Awards
0
Age
32
Location
Yo mama
To expand upon this, Darkness' silhouette resembles that of Ventus' outline.
 

Ballad of Caius

I'm the effing Lizard King
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,003
Awards
5
Location
Gotham
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
I don't think that Ventus is the MoM. Remember that we see him in the ending alongside his Chirity in the Land of Departure and then we see the MoM in the Secret Ending.

Also, I like how no one else is discussing about Demyx, how Nomura seemed to give importance to his appearance on Re:MIND and how we've yet to see him.
 

Genocide

All you need to know.
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
9,747
Awards
0
Age
32
Location
Yo mama
I don't think that Ventus is the MoM. Remember that we see him in the ending alongside his Chirity in the Land of Departure and then we see the MoM in the Secret Ending.
We also see Xehanort using time travel.

Also, I like how no one else is discussing about Demyx, how Nomura seemed to give importance to his appearance on Re:MIND and how we've yet to see him.
Yeah, people really did kinda drop that theory.
 

Twilight Lumiair

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
447
Awards
0
Age
19
Location
Virginia
It was a pretty weak theory to begin with. I can't even remember what people were using to justify it besides "they both act goofy."
That, and Demyx is somehow connected to the Age of Fairytales, and the details of that have yet to be made clear. Then the reveal of Xigbar being Luxu happened, and Nomura commenting about Demyx still being around despite not showing up in the ending. It all just had people speculating.

The same pretty much goes for Luxord, but the biggest thing playing against that idea is the fact that Luxu should've recognized him.

Either way, after all "reveals" in KH3 & Ux, it seems like most people are convinced MoM is somebody that exists within the current cast.
 

SweetYetSalty

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
288
Awards
0
Age
30
The main problem I have with MoM being Demyx or any other previous character is these characters clearly were not made to be some big mastermind. I'm still not okay with Demyx-Larxene all being Keyblade wielders as somebodies. Like the more I think about it I'm starting to really hate the idea, this is turning into one of the few retcons I actually hate. And if Demyx was MoM, then what? I'm suppose to now take this lazy goofball seriously in the next games?

Let's look at Luxu as Xigbar/Braig. Luxu has been defeated by Sora, Riku, Terra, Aqua, and even Xion. Yeah, he wasn't using a Keyblade, but they all proved they can knock him out and scar him. But now that he has a Keyblade that he hasn't used in over a decade he's going to be a bigger threat? They should have considered that. Half the cast has already defeated Luxu. If MoM were any Organization member then that would also mean he's been defeated too.

So yeah, I'm crossing my fingers MoM is his own character. Part of me kinda hope we never see his face. There is some intrigue about a foe you never get to see the true face of.
 

KeybladeLordSora

Motivation.
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
2,288
Awards
1
Location
The Multiverse
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
It was a pretty weak theory to begin with. I can't even remember what people were using to justify it besides "they both act goofy."
With Xigbar they had "They both act goofy" and "they both have one eye."

Anyway, Luxu's whole thing was that the Keyblade War would bring back the MoM.

But now at last the Keyblade War has begun, and Kingdom Hearts will open—a true and complete Kingdom Hearts, born of the clash between darkness and light. I will soon be reunited with my old companions, and in that moment my long vigil will reach its end. He will return...

This bit of the final KH3 secret report basically makes the "DemDem is MoM" point moot.

Also, the MoM "vanished, dimmed, and faded without a trace."

He disappeared from the world completely, while ol' Demmy was still existing to the point where Xemnas knows he's from the old age. Demyx didn't even know that at all. If he were MoM in any way, he wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.

The whole "MoM theory" is as Ballad said. A trend. If freakin' Dante showed up, someone would find a way to make an MoM theory out of him cuz "he wacky".

But here's the thing, bois and gorls. MoM isn't wacky. He's straight up insane. The last scene of him in Back Cover is him being a goddamn loony while Yoko abuses her piano in the background for corn's sake.
 

Ballad of Caius

I'm the effing Lizard King
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,003
Awards
5
Location
Gotham
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
and Demyx is somehow connected to the Age of Fairytales,
I think they'll pretty much end up being just regular Wielders that became Dandelions. If we haven't gotten their appearances in these past two story updates to KHUx, then it's possible we might see them in the story update closest to Re:MIND's release. I think the only reason Xehanort had them in the Organization was because they were Wielders from the Age of Fairytales, and not perhaps, in Lauriam's case, were high profile wielders from the past. Up until now, Lauriam was an Union Leader and Larxene was just a regular Wielder. It's possible that Demyx and Luxord will end up being just regular wielders, though Luxu confronting Luxord may be a hint that Luxord could be more than just a regular wielder.

but the biggest thing playing against that idea is the fact that Luxu should've recognized him.
I'm not a supporter of "Luxord=Player", but has Luxu ever had contact with Player?

it seems like most people are convinced MoM is somebody that exists within the current cast.
Judging by the fact that Nomura is implementing a lot of ideas he couldn't manifest in Versus XIII, I'm more inclined to think that the MoM is an original character and won't be based on existing ones. I mean, he made Verum Rex from scratch, so it's possible that the MoM may end up being someone looking physically similar to characters from some FINAL FANTASY properties.

The main problem I have with MoM being Demyx or any other previous character is these characters clearly were not made to be some big mastermind.
I mean, it wouldn't go against Japanese media to use the goofy character as the big bad. It's happened before in the Persona series. Other than that, it would be a refreshing take after calculating mind like Ansem, Xemnas and Master Xehanort.

I'm suppose to now take this lazy goofball seriously in the next games?
I mean, it's not like Demyx hasn't been threatening before. And there's nothing more dangerous than a reckless person, lol.

But now that he has a Keyblade that he hasn't used in over a decade he's going to be a bigger threat? They should have considered that. Half the cast has already defeated Luxu. If MoM were any Organization member then that would also mean he's been defeated too.
They can pretty much scratch under the "we weren't at our fullest" bin. I'm sure Luxu is more threatening with No Name than he is with a weapon he had to learn to use. Same goes for the MoM, who's the Master of history's most powerful wielders: Foretellers.

Part of me kinda hope we never see his face. There is some intrigue about a foe you never get to see the true face of.
I would defend this if he had an original design like the Foretellers, but he doesn't. He has a regular old coat, like how Luxu does. Which is somebody we haven't really seen his face: Luxu. Unless, of course, Braig's face is really his face after enough time in Braig's body.

With Xigbar they had "They both act goofy" and "they both have one eye."
This is my problem with the All Seeing Eye: do we actually know if the MoM meant that his eye is in No Name physically or metaphorically?

This bit of the final KH3 secret report basically makes the "DemDem is MoM" point moot.
We can pretty much surmise that the MoM can't be any present-day existing character. Especially when he comes even from an era that predates KHx.
 
Last edited:

Ballad of Caius

I'm the effing Lizard King
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,003
Awards
5
Location
Gotham
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
He hasn't, but remember, Luxu is always watching.
Good point. I think the closest inclusion that the "Player" character will have in the current KINGDOM HEARTS universe is what Nomura and the team did with adding player names during that moment in the Keyblade Graveyard.
 

KeybladeLordSora

Motivation.
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
2,288
Awards
1
Location
The Multiverse
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
This is my problem with the All Seeing Eye: do we actually know if the MoM meant that his eye is in No Name physically or metaphorically?
Well...Luxu got grossed out when MoM said that it was his eye in the keyblade, and MoM replied with "OH YOU THINK THAT'S G R O S S DO YA?"

So, it is safe to say that MoM gouged his own eye out and shoved it into No Name.
 

Ballad of Caius

I'm the effing Lizard King
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,003
Awards
5
Location
Gotham
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
Well...Luxu got grossed out when MoM said that it was his eye in the keyblade, and MoM replied with "OH YOU THINK THAT'S G R O S S DO YA?"

So, it is safe to say that MoM gouged his own eye out and shoved it into No Name.
I'm getting a mind pic where the MoM picks his eye out of No Name and his powers amplify xD
 

Eonstar890

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
28
Awards
6
Location
Florida
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Disney Royalty
  • Red Travels the Farthest
This may seem like a trivial reasoning, but I don’t believe the MoM can be any character we already know simply because he has a completely different VA. The only way he could be someone we know is if he were a matured version of them. Similar to how Luxu in Back cover was just a boy vs. the vessel he is in by KH3. So essentially if he does share a face with one we are already familiar with, I wouldn’t necessarily say that confirms he is that character as well.
 

Genocide

All you need to know.
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
9,747
Awards
0
Age
32
Location
Yo mama
This may seem like a trivial reasoning, but I don’t believe the MoM can be any character we already know simply because he has a completely different VA. The only way he could be someone we know is if he were a matured version of them. Similar to how Luxu in Back cover was just a boy vs. the vessel he is in by KH3. So essentially if he does share a face with one we are already familiar with, I wouldn’t necessarily say that confirms he is that character as well.
Ven is a boy and MoM may have the ability to time travel.
 

Ballad of Caius

I'm the effing Lizard King
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
6,003
Awards
5
Location
Gotham
  • Final Fantasy XV
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • In the Grid
  • Bravely Default
  • Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ
If the MoM really is from an age even before KHx, then Ventus is too young. And judging the MoM's personality, I think he's a thirty year old-ish guy.
 
Top