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What about a Kingdom Hearts without Disney??



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Oracle Spockanort

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Kingdom Hearts is literally a Disney game and Disney IP. Maybe they could do a game where there are minimal Disney-made characters, but the general appeal of this series is that we get to see these anime-looking kids interacting with our favorite Disney characters.

The problem is Disney's overbearing nature to control every detail, not the inclusion of Disney worlds themselves. The best thing Pixar did with KH3 was force Nomura and the dev team to do original things with their IPs. They oversaw things, but they weren't doing it to make sure the story stayed exactly the same as the films. They did it to see what sort of interesting stories could be made and it shows in how good Toy Box is.

Also people complain about Monstropolis but I enjoyed the world and its story. The only negative to me was that Randall wasn't a boss and they didn't get to play around with the "door" idea.

ANYWAYS, my point is that Disney isn't the problem but Disney's ever-changing rules and expectations are.
 

Face My Fears

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Kingdom Hearts is literally a Disney game and Disney IP. Maybe they could do a game where there are minimal Disney-made characters, but the general appeal of this series is that we get to see these anime-looking kids interacting with our favorite Disney characters.

The problem is Disney's overbearing nature to control every detail, not the inclusion of Disney worlds themselves. The best thing Pixar did with KH3 was force Nomura and the dev team to do original things with their IPs. They oversaw things, but they weren't doing it to make sure the story stayed exactly the same as the films. They did it to see what sort of interesting stories could be made and it shows in how good Toy Box is.

Also people complain about Monstropolis but I enjoyed the world and its story. The only negative to me was that Randall wasn't a boss and they didn't get to play around with the "door" idea.

ANYWAYS, my point is that Disney isn't the problem but Disney's ever-changing rules and expectations are.
Monstropolis is probably my favourite world in KH3. I wish Randall was a boss fight. Even if the "fight" was just hitting stuff on the conveyor belt to reduce Randall's "health" and having to go through some elaborate puzzle to get to him, which then leads to a cutscene.

Even though ReMIND gave us a more fleshed out Scala, Merlin's Room, Twilight Town, and The Keyblade Graveyard, I do find myself wanting an original world that is about the size of a Disney world with actual details in it (not just emptiness like the Keyblade Graveyard).

I feel like there's no original world that gives you a breather from the Disney. In KH1, Traverse Town served as the hub world where you synthesize and stock up on supplies, while Hollow Bastion was the climax and a grinding location before the End of the World. I think with Moogles in every world, that kind of kills the need for a "hub world". I mean the fact that you could do Little Chef's minigame from the save menu in any world basically made it pointless to actually go back to Twilight Town since there was nothing else there.
 

Absent

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It is the game that managed to capture the Disney aspect almost perfectly

To this day I'm still amazed at how KH1 is so different from all the games that came after.
I agree. It's really hard for me to fit KH1 with the rest of the saga. BBS and 0.2 feel so different that I forget it's connected to 1.
 

2 quid is good

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Also people complain about Monstropolis but I enjoyed the world and its story. The only negative to me was that Randall wasn't a boss and they didn't get to play around with the "door" idea
Tbf I think most people's complaints with that are because of the repetitive background and more linear level design and the Randall thing of course. I don't really hear a lot of story complaints
 

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disney is part of kingdom hearts as much as square, the only thing that bothered me a little was how light hearted kh3 felt (not counting Re:Mind) the dark element of kingdom hearts lessened a bit with kh3, it’s still there I’m aware but I hope the future titles goes back to being like how it always was with both square and Disney equally without Disney taking dominance.
 

pastel.goblin

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I feel like there's no original world that gives you a breather from the Disney. In KH1, Traverse Town served as the hub world where you synthesize and stock up on supplies, while Hollow Bastion was the climax and a grinding location before the End of the World. I think with Moogles in every world, that kind of kills the need for a "hub world". I mean the fact that you could do Little Chef's minigame from the save menu in any world basically made it pointless to actually go back to Twilight Town since there was nothing else there.
Yes~! I have a few gripes with KH3, but for me the main thing it was missing was a proper hub world. I wish they'd done more with Twilight Town like Traverse Town in KH1 or Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden in KH2. I know these days most games are all about convenience and loads of people would complain if you had to go back to one world to shop etc. but Traverse Town really felt like home in KH1
 

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Yes~! I have a few gripes with KH3, but for me the main thing it was missing was a proper hub world. I wish they'd done more with Twilight Town like Traverse Town in KH1 or Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden in KH2. I know these days most games are all about convenience and loads of people would complain if you had to go back to one world to shop etc. but Traverse Town really felt like home in KH1
I don't see the problem with going back to one world to shop. Maybe speed runners or whatever will have issues with that, but the game should be made for the experience. Having to go back to Traverse Town to shop, then realizing "oh yeah, I have one of the pages might as well visit 100 Acre Wood while I'm here" was such a nice feeling. Or going back to lock the keyhole, then thinking to go synthesize or check on the Dalmatians. If Twilight Town in KH3 had that, then I don't think it would have been such a big issue. You don't even have pages to get, so that you will have to go back to Twilight Town. Everything in Twilight Town you can do remotely (IE the Bistro).

I think having Space Paranoids in Hollow Bastion was a great idea. I'm hoping they have Game Central Station or something else within an original world, so you get that connection of Disney/main story (like with Tron), but also there's some more relevance given to an original world.
 

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Sometimes people get so involved in the complexity of Kingdom Hearts' plot that they forget what it really is: anime characters in a Disney and Final Fantasy crossover lmao
 

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Sometimes people get so involved in the complexity of Kingdom Hearts' plot that they forget what it really is: anime characters in a Disney and Final Fantasy crossover lmao
Yes...a Disney and Final Fantasy crossover. Where one aspect of the crossover is barely present, and the other aspect of the crossover's presence barely has meaning anymore. And the anime characters barely have a part in that aspect anymore.
 

astertide

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Yes...a Disney and Final Fantasy crossover. Where one aspect of the crossover is barely present, and the other aspect of the crossover's presence barely has meaning anymore. And the anime characters barely have a part in that aspect anymore.
Agree thoroughly. This new Yozora plotline really looks like it's heading towards Final Fantasy, which is good, but it also looks like it's heading away from Disney, which is less good.

I really wish both franchises were MUCH more involved. Let the Disney characters know about other worlds, or better yet, TRAVEL to other worlds! Make Rapunzel and Elsa meet! Let the Final Fantasy characters befriend more of the main cast and the Disney characters! Have Union X and Dark Road characters interact with some Final Fantasy characters somehow!
Don't make it just Sora standing awkwardly while Elsa is singing Let It Go as Donald zettaflares Goofy and conveniently falls unconscious just as you have to fight. It just gives off a self-inserty feel EXCEPT THE PLOT DOESN'T EVEN CHANGE SO THERE'S LIKE NO POINT IN HAVING THE SELF-INSERT EVEN THERE.
Do more of what you did in Monstropolis and Toy Box, having Sora come in after the main story.
Don't just make the Organisation members give an "oOh SpOoKy" monologue, summon a few Heartless and then LEAVE.
Make the Disney characters interact with the Organisation more. Let us FIGHT the Organisation with Disney villains fighting with them ON THE EVIL SIDE, NOT JUST FIGHTING FOR THEM.
HECK, GIVE ORGANISATION MEMBERS TEAM ATTACKS WITH DISNEY AND FINAL FANTASY CHARACTERS!
Don't make Donald and Goofy the only characters you always have in your party. Split them up like what you did in Deep Jungle and give Sora other party members he has to stay with to find his friends.
PUT IN SOME DISNEY AND FINAL FANTASY CHARACTERS THAT SORA ACTUALLY HAS TO TRY SUPER HARD TO GET ALONG WITH. I mean, really, in Traverse Town you managed to still befriend NEKU even though he has major trust issues and has attempted murder.


agh it's that Sora feels just...
THERE



I love Kingdom Hearts.
 

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Agree thoroughly. This new Yozora plotline really looks like it's heading towards Final Fantasy, which is good, but it also looks like it's heading away from Disney, which is less good.

I really wish both franchises were MUCH more involved. Let the Disney characters know about other worlds, or better yet, TRAVEL to other worlds! Make Rapunzel and Elsa meet! Let the Final Fantasy characters befriend more of the main cast and the Disney characters! Have Union X and Dark Road characters interact with some Final Fantasy characters somehow!
Don't make it just Sora standing awkwardly while Elsa is singing Let It Go as Donald zettaflares Goofy and conveniently falls unconscious just as you have to fight. It just gives off a self-inserty feel EXCEPT THE PLOT DOESN'T EVEN CHANGE SO THERE'S LIKE NO POINT IN HAVING THE SELF-INSERT EVEN THERE.
Do more of what you did in Monstropolis and Toy Box, having Sora come in after the main story.
Don't just make the Organisation members give an "oOh SpOoKy" monologue, summon a few Heartless and then LEAVE.
Make the Disney characters interact with the Organisation more. Let us FIGHT the Organisation with Disney villains fighting with them ON THE EVIL SIDE, NOT JUST FIGHTING FOR THEM.
HECK, GIVE ORGANISATION MEMBERS TEAM ATTACKS WITH DISNEY AND FINAL FANTASY CHARACTERS!
Don't make Donald and Goofy the only characters you always have in your party. Split them up like what you did in Deep Jungle and give Sora other party members he has to stay with to find his friends.
PUT IN SOME DISNEY AND FINAL FANTASY CHARACTERS THAT SORA ACTUALLY HAS TO TRY SUPER HARD TO GET ALONG WITH. I mean, really, in Traverse Town you managed to still befriend NEKU even though he has major trust issues and has attempted murder.


agh it's that Sora feels just...
THERE



I love Kingdom Hearts.
........this is it. These are my exact thoughts about how Disney and Final Fantasy are treated in this series.
 

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Disney is way too integral to the Kingdom Hearts series to be scrapped. What I think needs to change is how they USE it.

Disney needs to stop being so restrictive. KH3's Arendelle, Caribbean, and Corona all suffered because they had sloppy movie retreads (though I did love the Raps and Sora interactions).

I think if the Disney worlds were more integrated into the overall story and Disney wasn't so terrified at the prospect of these characters mingling outside their home turf, we could have something special. There was potential in KH1 w/ Triton knowing about the Keyblade... and then these days it's just basically Yen Sid, Merlin, and the Fairy Godmother. Plus Maleficent and Pete and the fairies.

I think the concept of "world order" should just be scrapped at this stage. And IPs like Gargoyles and other TV brands could be added to give the series more diversity.
 

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That would be a dream! I'm really sick of Disney and their restrictions in storytelling and animation.
 

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With the direction KH is going, it's already its own thing and no longer the crossover of SE and Disney it's supposed to be in the first place. I admit, I have a thing for the complex/abstract Japanese work and which is why I stay with KH. I admit that abstractness is not for everyone, but it goes back to the answer that I stayed neither for Disney element, nor exactly for anime element (even if the complexity is another Japanese thing it's not exactly anime thing. All of this considered I wouldn't recommend KH to a Disney fan for the Disney worlds in KH are often simply rehash of the original world, that the worlds barely changed or have impact to Sora's journey. Sure we got the Pixar worlds in KH3, but what about other games?How can we so sure that in next games the worlds will also be developed like the Pixar worlds in KH3? If someone wants Disney meets anime , or better said animefied Disney I'd recommend them Twisted Wonderland instead of KH. The Disney material is utilized in both respectful to the OG source and creative way, and since they are expies instead of borrowed characters, they will remain relevant to the plot.
 

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The fact that Disney is completely fine with letting their characters cross over in literally everything EXCEPT KH kinda just pisses me off.

Disney puts restrictions on the devs regarding Disney worlds, won't even let Disney summons be a thing unless the change is incredibly drastic to where it basically ISN'T a Disney summon, and shoves a world order rule in so Square doesn't do the thing that they did in cartoons and other games.

No wonder Nomura felt that things were easier back when KH wasn't as noticed by Disney.
 

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Then it won't be KH.

I just want Disney to be better implemented in KH's story. Rehashing the movies is not the way to go. Blending disney into each games conflict should be their priority.

One example would be Sora going to Coco's land of the dead after the end of KH3, instead of in the future sora just getting on his spaceship and going there to have a adventure. I want each world visit to feel more organic in the plot. Tron world being Ansem computer was and still is the best use I've found of a disney world in these games.
 

Swing

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I really do not see the point in the Disney stuff anymore. The Disney Worlds are just a distraction now that takes time away from characters that really need proper development such as Kairi or Naminé. Also, Disney has become so restricted with their properties, that some worlds end up just a one-to-one-retelling of the original movie. Sora wasn't even allowed to interact with most of the Frozen cast properly. Why do you guys think Marshmallow was the partner character in the Frozen-World? Not because of storytelling-reasons, but because Disney was so afraid that Nomura could ruin their biggest cash cow character.

Kingdom Hearts is big enough to stand on its own legs now. You do not need Disney anymore and Disney doesn't need Kingdom Hearts anymore. I mean, look at the final battle, how many Disney characters where a part of it? Only three and they all played a very minor role in the end.
 
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Katsagu

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I really do not see the point in the Disney stuff anymore. The Disney Worlds are just a distraction now that takes time away from characters that really needed development such as with Kairi and Naminé. Also, Disney has become so restricted with their properties, that some worlds end up just as one-to-one-retellings of the original movies. Sora wasn't even allowed to interact with most of the Frozen cast properly. Why do you guys think Marshmallow was the partner character in the Frozen-World? Not because of storytelling-reasons, but because Disney was so afraid that Nomura could ruin their biggest cash cow character.

Kingdom Hearts is big enough to stand on its own legs. You do not need Disney anymore and Disney doesn't need Kingdom Hearts anymore. I mean, look at the final battle, how many Disney characters where a part of it? Only three and they all played a very minor role.
The problem is that disney worlds don't have to be a distraction. Asking them to be cut only takes away from the game in my opinion, when we (well not we, the devs) should think of better ways of it being implemented into the game story.
 
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