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What do you Think about Xion?



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Allister Rose

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True...but then again it's Xion, who gives a crap?
I won't lie to you though; "Axel and Xion face off" is one of the cutscenes i keep watching over and over. I think the reason is implied on my avatar.
It's just that i rather see TAV than xion. it's like hse complicated the series in a bad way
 

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It's just that i rather see TAV than xion. it's like hse complicated the series in a bad way
You see, the problem about Xion is not "Xion."
She had a lot of potential as a character; the problem is that they developed that potential in the worst way they could(it's almost as if they had done it on purpose).
Xion---shion--Forget me not
I'll always like that name and it's meaning.
 

Reika

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I won't lie to you though; "Axel and Xion face off" is one of the cutscenes i keep watching over and over. I think the reason is implied on my avatar.

I do agree with this. But I blame this on Axel; although I'm not much for Days!Axel, he was still pretty cool in that scene. <3
I also like the Day 255 cutscene. We get to see some nice Axel/Roxas friendship with only a small mention of Xion. And if you watch that scene from theater mode, that small mention doesn't go onto a whole Xion discussion. 8D

It's just that i rather see TAV than xion. it's like hse complicated the series in a bad way

Agreed. TAV didn't add a ton of stuff, and it seems that BBS's concepts and plot points were already partially made during KH2, meaning that BBS had an actual impact on a game long before it even released. So that, unlike Days, they weren't squeezed in out of nowhere - they were already merged with some of the games prior to it's release, making it more believable.

You see, the problem about Xion is not "Xion."
She had a lot of potential as a character; the problem is that they developed that potential in the worst way they could(it's almost as if they had done it on purpose).
Xion---shion--Forget me not
I'll always like that name and it's meaning.

I also agree with this. She DID have potential, they just bypassed it. There were many opportunities they could have taken when developing her character, but they didn't and screwed the character up completely.
 

Allister Rose

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Even if they bring her back on 3d, it seems like a filler arc again, only this time, they'll re analyze previous other games.

nintendo is getting annoying...i love there games, but i wish they leave certain ones alone. if they didn't we probably would've gotten COM on ps2 and with a better system
 

Reika

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Even if they bring her back on 3d, it seems like a filler arc again, only this time, they'll re analyze previous other games.

Actually... I'm thinking 3D will be the Mark of Mastery exam for Sora and Riku. So while, like CoM, it IS a side game, it's also going to be a necessary one.

nintendo is getting annoying...i love there games, but i wish they leave certain ones alone. if they didn't we probably would've gotten COM on ps2 and with a better system

And we wouldn't have gotten Days at all! 8D
But agreed. CoM was SO much better on PS2. <3 So much so that I sold the GBA version, even though that version was my first KH game ever.
 

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tl;dr I still think you people need to stop judging Days' importance be KH2 and the FM+. Yes, it was retconned, and yes, the novels' author suggested it, but screw it. Nomura's the guy who planned out Ven who many in the fandom consider took Sora's right of existence.
So how about we wait for future installments and then rage about how Xion yes affected them, instead of raging about her not affecting games that, shock, were written before her game came out?
BBS is important because it explained what already was. But that's also part of why I consider it as a less important title.
KH1 and CoM were given their meaning by the games that came after them. KH2 will be given its true importance when we deal more with the Organization and their Somebodies or what not in the future installments. So excuse me if I don't see the problem with a game that didn't influence present titles at the time he was released, and am left unimpressed with a game whose purpose was to retcon explanations into things that were already there - since again, Nomura makes the series as he goes so doubtful he had Terra's whole concept of choosing Riku and all that shiz in full in his head as early on as KH1. Much like how even if he's telling the truth about the girl Roxas needed to get him to leave the Org, it took Nintendo and the novels' author to get it going properly.
 

Reika

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tl;dr I still think you people need to stop judging Days' importance be KH2 and the FM+. Yes, it was retconned, and yes, the novels' author suggested it, but screw it. Nomura's the guy who planned out Ven who many in the fandom consider took Sora's right of existence.
So how about we wait for future installments and then rage about how Xion yes affected them, instead of raging about her not affecting games that, shock, were written before her game came out?

It being a retcon isn't an issue. If we're honest with ourselves, every game after KH1 is technically a retcon.
It's HOW it was done. And the fact that Days is a midquel, rather than a sequel like the others, which limited even more what he was able to do with it. And what did he do? He shoved a ton of retcons into it. That's harder to do in a midquel, because there are games that come before it AND after it. Even prequels have it easier, due to the fact that they don't have a game before it's timeline. Days had to be sandwiched, and it was just too overstuffed.
I mean, adding a new character in a midquel, that obviously doesn't appear in the games that come after it, is a stupid idea anyway.

BBS is important because it explained what already was. But that's also part of why I consider it as a less important title.

It also gave us glimpses on important plot points for KH3. On things that will be necessary to know if we are to understand the overall future plot, Like Ven's heart being merged with Sora, Terra being apart of Xehanort, AtW not being dead.

KH1 and CoM were given their meaning by the games that came after them.

That's because the games that came after them were able to be based on the basic principles of those games. It was easier to expand on them because of that.

KH2 will be given its true importance when we deal more with the Organization and their Somebodies or what not in the future installments.
So excuse me if I don't see the problem with a game that didn't influence present titles at the time he was released, and am left unimpressed with a game whose purpose was to retcon explanations into things that were already there - since again, Nomura makes the series as he goes so doubtful he had Terra's whole concept of choosing Riku and all that shiz in full in his head as early on as KH1. Much like how even if he's telling the truth about the girl Roxas needed to get him to leave the Org, it took Nintendo and the novels' author to get it going properly.

KH2 already had importance; it was important to CoM, a game that came BEFORE it, because it explained what happened to Sora after that, so we knew whether he woke up, what memories were kept, and if he ever got home. It gave closure to CoM.
It has also shown importance in BBS, where characters that were introduced in KH2 make appearances in BBS, sometimes important appearances. And the reason for this is because BBS's conception was already in mind during the production of KH2.
Every game, except for Days, has shown importance to each other. CoM was important to KH1, as it showed us where SDG's search led them. KH2 gave final closure to both games. BBS set up KH1. It retconned KH1, yes, but KH2 kinda set that part up anyway, so it's not all BBS's fault. Coded, to my understanding, pretty much tells us what will happen in KH3; it tells us the goals of KH3, while KH3 will play it out and show us the results.
What importance did Days serve? Show us Riku and DiZ did absolutely nothing for a damned year? That Roxas was a pissy fanboy? That, for a year, the world revolved around a(nother) Sora/Kairi clone? That said clone is tormented, so her only plot point, according to Coded, is that her torment will be eased (meaning, she serves importance only to herself, not to the plot)?
All of the games thus far have held each other up, shown importance from the past and future. Days didn't do this. Face it: as a KH game, it sucked worse than KH2.
 

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Every game, except for Days, has shown importance to each other.

Which was ridiculous, when you consider that they had Roxas and Xemnas in the same vicinity of each other, and they did nothing with it other than, let's see: some beach dream, slight, shrugged mention of that room that never came into conversation again after Axel failed to search for it, and...yeah, that's it. Oh, wows.

Xemnas himself barely shows up in the game - he was like a cameo. And when he did make a presence, everything he said was a wall banger (Days in general was). Yeah, okay, Xemnas, the will of Kingdom Hearts will prevent Xion from having any effect, so it's perfectly okay to have her run off with the enemy. You're such a manipulative bastard.

The potential connections and scenes that could have been made from only that one thing would have been amazing, and give more relevance to the past, and therefore, the future. Instead, it went to shit, and we got more ice cream scenes to waste the available bytes. Yay.

358/2 Days lacked so much creativity that even crappy fanfics that rarely bypass as mediocre have more imagination than a supposed professional staff (and Kanemaki, who should just really stick to the novels and stay away from the main series). Days itself follows the rules and cliches of a 14th member fanfiction verbatim, from the spotlight take over, to the main guys all drooling for it. The only difference was that the said 14th member turned out to be the memory sex-changing clone of a guy and it's canon.
 

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Now, this ain't truth; I loved days.

I loved Days too. The more I think about it the more I love it. It's just that plot wise, it didn't influence anything as we know it today (MEMORY MAYHEM!!! <3<3<3) and held a lot of wasted potential about a lot of characters who are the truer filler imo.
Demyx and Luxord? Filler characters to make the cool number of XIII in the Organization. Most of the CoM cast were like that too but at least they supported the game that gave us half the series as we know it and introduced CO. But that doesn't change the fact that most of the Organization, even several of the founding Apprentices, are there for no better purpose than to give the Organization a nice, cool number.

But I say now what I always did - with so many true-filler characters in the Organization, they had to bring a plot device into the game.
Yes, Nomura accepted Xion's concept from someone else. But I have to wonder WHY he did so, if he ever had the pretense of a concept at hand for the Organization members we got to see in Days.
My guess is no. But I'm well aware I'm a minority on this.
 

sora364

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Face it: as a KH game, it sucked worse than KH2.

RANT WARNING

0_0. No...just...no. Once you get pass the egregiously repetitive ice-cream scenes and "pointless" Xion, you might realize that 358/2 actually has a plot. Yes, a horrendously paced plot, but a decent one that actually kept my attention (unlike a certain "sequel")Shower it in mediocrity and slapdash professionalism all you like; but please, it can never be remotely comparable to that trash-all cryptic/negligible Birth By Sleep references aside.

358/2 Days may perhaps be crap, but Kingdom Hearts II is a steaming pile of dog****.

EDIT: From this point onward, this post isn't directed to Reika. Just thought I'd point that out.

Other than Xion's existence, most of the reasons for the Days' story are accentuated mostly on detractors in which Kingdom Hearts II suffers greatly from. At the very least...I am provided a definitive reason for slaying Heartless in Days, and it is cohesive with the story. In Kingdom Hearts II, am I told by Yen Sid that "All Nobodies are bad and you must kill them!"-half the reason we fight ORG XIII (In KH2) in the first place (despite them doing borderline nothing wrong aside from Xaldin's treachery and perhaps Luxord.)

The Main Reason: Wasted potential on ORG XIII.

I find it debatably worse in Kingdom Hearts II...stupendously worse as a matter of fact. Chain of Memories was the building block for Organization XIII. They were introduced in Chain of Memories as these relentless, devious, calculating, traitorous individuals who would do anything to bend Sora and Riku to their will. We were given insight to the characters and characterization actually varied. It a glance, we have much to look forward to in Kingdom Hearts II! Now.....fast forward to KH2...

They serve no purpose. Literally. The spotlight they receive as our antagonists is inexcusably minute. It is shameful that I often forget they exist when I play Kingdom Hearts II.

Other than Axel and Xemnas, none of these characters have any development or back story other than "Ex ATW Apprentice." Demyx and Luxord seem to have next to no importance, which is disheartening as I liked them both (despite them having 3 seconds worth a camera time a piece.) Then...at the last second...boss battles with all of them up the ass during the last bit. Xigbar? WTF is this guy? Oh wait; he's that dude with the surfer voice who I haven't heard from since the beginning of the game! Luxord? Well...you did do something bad in Port Royal, so I guess I can kill you. Sai'x? Ah...yeah...that guy I spotted in Twilight Town for 5 seconds and at Radiant Garden for 10 more seconds. Xemnas? Even though you have yet to give utterance to a singe syllable since the beginning of the game, you are the leader of the pointless organization and the Nobody of Xehanort-that makes you automatically evil! But hey! You're still the main antagonist! So who cares?

Totally rushed. Exactly as some prescribe the end of 358/2 Days to be. Anticlimactic. No build up or tension whatsoever. And our real reason for killing the last four of them? Oh, they decidedly to randomly kidnap plot device Kairi with no real reason as Sora was already continuously slaying Heartless with the Keyblade/supplying their Kingdom Hearts with bountiful hearts. Kidnapping Kairi was unnecessary. But for the sake of this terrible plot, it was clearly needed to actually give the game a conclusion.

Roxas is another brilliant example of Kingdom Hearts II's fantastical writing skills. "Hey! Let's foreshadow him at the end of Chain of Memories with a picture of him-signifying his integral precedence in the next installment!" "Alright, now let's force you to play a 3 hour tutorial with him, allude to his obscure past, build on his character, make you fall in love with him, and never speak of him again until the last level!"

The same goes applies of Namine, Axel, Diz, and Riku. As in Days, Riku did not do a single productive thing before the end of the game other than give a box of sea salt ice cream with a random picture of Roxas. At the very least, he defeated Roxas in Days after a year of doing almost absolutely nothing.

Namine: I fell in love with Namine's character is Chain of Memories. Very well flushed out and memorable-however, identical to Roxas, never seen again until the end of the game. Ridiculous. I resent the fact Sora possesses no recollection of her in Kingdom Hearts II, and the events of Chain of Memories are almost entirely inconsequential to this game's story. The writing is so atrocious; they neglected the "Thank Namine" note introduced directly after the prologue. Yes, I am well aware it was "rectified" somewhat in KH2:FM, but it stands substantive enough to confirm **** writing skills if they forget something so crucial to the last game.

Diz: Pretty much incognito the whole game until he gives you his whole life story in the last segment of the game. Thank god for the Secret Ansem Reports.

Axel: We all loved Axel in Chain of Memories. Older members of this forum can probably go back to the times we often speculated on what Axel's role would be during KH2's development. We all...actually thought...he was going to be important. Boy...were we wrong!? Other than inadvertently giving birth to a group of rambunctious Yaoi AxelXRoxas fangirls, his role in the story was tarnished due to...you guessed it...crap writing skills. The crap writing skills which were riddled with unintentional homosexual undertones is the reason this “pairing” even exists. It even goes hand in hand with SoraXRiku. *sighs*

Alas...I digress. You guys can bash Days all you like, but Kingdom Hearts II is, and forever will be garbage, regardless of its continuity/canon presentation.

I can now understand why some people resent the game's story due to Xion's influence, but really? ORG. XIII is executed just as badly in that game they were in this one (possibly worse)

The only one that did them justice was COM.
 
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"All Nobodies are bad and you must kill them!"-half the reason we fight ORG XIII (In KH2) in the first place (despite them doing borderline nothing wrong aside from Xaldin's treachery and perhaps Luxord.)

Uh, I'd say giving Sora enough reason to believe they not only kidnapped Kairi but also tormented Riku, and sending waves upon waves of Nobodies to attack worlds is a good reason for him to fight. Especially since them attacking Hollow Bastion is about how they introduced themselves to him, thus showing him Yen Sid wasn't just blabbering - they really are evil and need to be stopped.

Alas...I digress. You guys can bash Days all you like, but Kingdom Hearts II is, and forever will be garbage, regardless of its continuity/canon presentation.

I can now understand why some people resent the game's story due to Xion's influence, but really? ORG. XIII is executed just as badly in that game they were in this one (possibly worse)

I truly honestly love you for this. <3
 
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Allister Rose

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tl;dr I still think you people need to stop judging Days' importance be KH2 and the FM+. Yes, it was retconned, and yes, the novels' author suggested it, but screw it. Nomura's the guy who planned out Ven who many in the fandom consider took Sora's right of existence.
again you ignore that he didn't. Sora has the right to exist from the moment he was born.

So how about we wait for future installments and then rage about how Xion yes affected them, instead of raging about her not affecting games that, shock, were written before her game came out?
she played her purpose. i'm more mad about her affecting future titles, than being left in days.

BBS is important because it explained what already was. But that's also part of why I consider it as a less important title.
Not exactly, BBS was important was important because it revealed something that affects future titles and explained most mysteries caused by kh2 and kh2FM

KH1 and CoM were given their meaning by the games that came after them. KH2 will be given its true importance when we deal more with the Organization and their Somebodies or what not in the future installments.
Not exactly either, each game had their own threat, kh2 was already important.

So excuse me if I don't see the problem with a game that didn't influence present titles at the time he was released, and am left unimpressed with a game whose purpose was to retcon explanations into things that were already there - since again, Nomura makes the series as he goes so doubtful he had Terra's whole concept of choosing Riku and all that shiz in full in his head as early on as KH1. Much like how even if he's telling the truth about the girl Roxas needed to get him to leave the Org, it took Nintendo and the novels' author to get it going properly.

The more i think about it, the more you look for excuses to not like BBS. Riku was chosen to wield the keyblade, but never revealed who or how you get chosen. Either way this was heavily hinted in kh2FM, so honestly, i dont see why you complain about this now

The major problem about days is that it doesn't seem to hint anything beyond kh2 or something we missed that was important in future titles. It was until BBS secret ending forcing her to be brought back when her sacrifice meaningless.
 

sora364

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Uh, I'd say giving Sora enough reason to believe they not only kidnapped Kairi but also tormented Riku, and sending waves upon waves of Nobodies to attack worlds is a good reason for him to fight. Especially since them attacking Hollow Bastion is about how they introduced themselves to him, thus showing him Yen Sid wasn't just blabbering - they really are evil and need to be stopped.

The thing is,there was a gargantuan gap between the time Kairi's kidnapping transpired and Yen Sid's counsel. This happened...near the end of the game.

As for tormenting Riku: Sora remembers absolutely nothing about Riku's time in Castle Oblivion (he never knew to begin with, actually XD) so I am not sure what you meant by that. In fact, I can only recall one instant: Roxas: "Riku...? I defeated a Riku once." Sora: "You did what!?" Correct me if I am wrong, but Sora knew very little about Riku's involvement with Org. XIII until...well...you guessed it...the end of the game.

As for what you said about Radiant Garden and the "sending swarms", I admittedly accidentally overlooked that key aspect. It's ironic I overlooked it as it is quite possibly the only thing that makes them even close to being credible antagonists. Sadly, it is underplayed and not focused on much as it should have. Organzation XIII, as a whole group, are just...massive disappoint.

Perhaps I should have been a tad more discreet with that sentiment. Yes, the Organzation did that one particular thing, but they themselves, as characters, were not represented to the point of actually considering the severity of their actions. In short, the lesser Nobodies themselves were seemingly more important than them :/

Dispatching Nobodies, yes, very nefarious. But when it is done to the point some players can actually forget they are actually doing it...well...it could be attributed to both terrible writing and crap memory XD.
 
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The thing is,there was a gargantuan gap between the time Kairi's kidnapping transpired and Yen Sid's counsel. This happened...near the end of the game.

I was throwing mostly examples. The biggest thing was Sora's first meeting with them in "full" when he first reached Hollow Bastion again (Xigbar's "he used to give me that same look" comment taim).

As for tormenting Riku: Sora remembers absolutely nothing about Riku's time in Castle Oblivion (he never knew to begin with, actually XD) so I am not sure what you meant by that.

I was more referring to Saix's comment in Twilight Town about warning Sora to not become like Riku, and then it adding up with them thinking Riku was an Organization member.

Perhaps I should have been a tad more discreet with that sentiment. Yes, the Organzation did that one particular thing, but they themselves, as characters, were not represented to the point of actually considering the severity of their actions. In short, the lesser Nobodies themselves were seemingly more important than them :/

Dispatching Nobodies, yes, very nefarious. But when it is done to the point some players can actually forget they are actually doing it...well...it could be attributed to both terrible writing and crap memory XD.

You pointed out one of the biggest flaws due to a mistake I made, that you also forgot about it. They sent Nobodies, true. But the main enemy in most worlds up to - you guessed it - the end, were HEARTLESS. In a game that was supposed to be about NOBODIES.
Huff.
 
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