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What if...? (Theories)



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Sephiroth0812

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I agree 100% with you.
I've always wondered though. What's special about members of the organization 13 is that they remember their past right? Also, Roxas looks almost exactly like Ventus. Lea and Ventus met and became friends. Do you think Axel/Lea remembers Ventus and becomes friends with Roxas because he's familiar?

Well thanks...;)

Normal nobodies do remember their past because they're essentially a "continuation" of their original self yet still different (it sounds weird I know, lol).
Roxas looks like Ventus because Ven's injured, sleeping heart remained in Sora's body when Sora became a heartless and then the body (Sora's body!) took the shape of the heart that remained in it => Ven's.
This means of course not that Roxas = Ventus, Roxas is his own person as is Ventus. Roxas didn't remember his past and coexisted with Sora, so he became essentially a complete new existence, yet he lacks any part of a true existence as everything is "borrowed", body and soul from Sora and (unknown by Roxas) the heart from Ven.
If Axel really would consciously remember Ventus he would see Xion as Ventus all the time, as does Xigbar, not as Xion as he does in Days.
And he would have made surely a remark to someone about Roxas looking so much like Ven if he remembered. (Actually, going solely by looks Roxas and Ven really are like identical twins).
So no, I don't really think Axel remembers Ven, at least not consciously...who he only met for at most 15 minutes several years ago.
Yet I will not deny that maybe some subconscious familiarity (or even the sleeping heart of Ven inside Roxas) drew Axel to him, especially if he really got some emotions through a connection like I suggested above.
 

Sign

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I agree 100% with you.
I've always wondered though. What's special about members of the organization 13 is that they remember their past right? Also, Roxas looks almost exactly like Ventus. Lea and Ventus met and became friends. Do you think Axel/Lea remembers Ventus and becomes friends with Roxas because he's familiar?

Axel probably does feel familiar around Roxas, but I wouldn't say he actually remembers Ven and befriended Roxas because his short meeting with Ven 10 years ago. He's friends with Roxas because he's Roxas.
 

Crystal

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Roxas doesn't feel particularly Ven's feelings, he has the ability to feel real emotions from having Ven's heart.
Those feelings are not Ven's, they're Roxas's.
The way how they are created however is speculated to be similar to what stars said.
Roxas is unknowingly "sapping" raw emotions from the inactive heart inside him (always remember Ven's heart is a case for an ICU, an Intensive care unit, lol).

Actually, i'm a bit confused about Roxas' creation. He is create when Sora stab the keyblade on himself right?
So, that time Ven's heart did flow into Roxas? Or just a connection made Roxas feel real emotions , but in fact Ven's heart still within Sora?

An ICU is suitable for Ven xD Since he is having an injured heart lol xD

Roxas's and Xion's own memories, whose define them as their own identities are now located deep inside Sora's heart, where they now "live", the same applies to Naminé with Kairi.

So, what Roxas and Xion had not means Sora will had their memories right?
 

Nayru's Love

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I'm on the impression that Sora unconsciously connects his heart to everyone he himself meets, he doesn't really actively do something, as he really did meet all of the tormented ones in person

Yeah, you nailed down my thoughts on this pretty good. :D

with the exception of Xion and Ven. (He did meet Roxas in his own heart at the skyscraper in KH 2), yet Xion did originally come from him and Ventus was probably the first contact with another being Sora's heart ever had, and is also the closest and deepest connection he formed.
Since Sora's heart resonated within Roxas, perhaps Roxas unknowingly connected to Xion (and Axel, for that matter) as if Sora would. After all, Axel did feel the same way around Sora as he did with Roxas. Concerning Ven, it'd depend whether or not Sora connected to Ven during their "meetings." (Well, you know what I mean by connect.)
 
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Eon Qey

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So... If I am correct, the memories are flowing into even the Nobodies (Bodies) from the heart and connections of Sora...? Hmm. I think this could be true. :3
Thank Everyone, for clearing that up. ^^
As for the mind, do you think it could be that it just takes it's own shape into a being (Nobody, Heartless) and eventually tries to recollect the memories?

And if the heart is the keepers of emotions, why is it that Heartless do not feel emotion, but only instinct? o.0

A lot of this clears things up though. ^^
And maybe this "birth by sleep" that everyone is awaiting, is within the connection of Sora. o.0 (His heart connected with Ventus, that's for sure.)
 

Sephiroth0812

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Eraser Rain said:
Since Sora's heart resonated within Roxas, perhaps Roxas unknowingly connected to Xion (and Axel, for that matter) as if Sora would. After all, Axel did feel the same way around Sora as he did with Roxas. Concerning Ven, it'd depend whether or not Sora connected to Ven during their "meetings." (Well, you know what I mean by connect.)

Clearly possible, the connections to those Sora didn't met directly come into being through an intermediary who has the connection. In Xion's case this would be Roxas of course.
For the case of Ventus, like I said earlier:
myself said:
Ventus was probably the first contact with another being Sora's heart ever had, and is also the closest and deepest connection he formed.
Ven was Sora's very first connection at all and by repairing Ven's heart this exceptional connection was formed. I could very well be that the decision of Sora's heart to help another heart in pain that formed this connection actually started this "connection ability" from the beginning, like a heart helping another heart is an activation condition for this ability.
If every heart is capable of doing this it would also be no real "special" ability at all...it's only that Sora's heart so far is the only one who does this.

Eon Qey said:
So... If I am correct, the memories are flowing into even the Nobodies (Bodies) from the heart and connections of Sora...? Hmm. I think this could be true. :3
Thank Everyone, for clearing that up. ^^
As for the mind, do you think it could be that it just takes it's own shape into a being (Nobody, Heartless) and eventually tries to recollect the memories?
What memories do you mean? Sorry, I don't quite get the relation to the previous posts here...?

And if the heart is the keepers of emotions, why is it that Heartless do not feel emotion, but only instinct? o.0
Because heartless don't use the heart, pureblood heartless eat the heart and drown it in darkness, while emblems engulf the heart in darkness and hold it captive.

A lot of this clears things up though. ^^
And maybe this "birth by sleep" that everyone is awaiting, is within the connection of Sora. o.0 (His heart connected with Ventus, that's for sure.)
"Birth by Sleep" refers to the second chance, the chance to return to a life in the Realm of Light, and while Sora's connections with everyone don't actually do the "Birth by Sleep", they're the key to actually allow it.
 

Eon Qey

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Well. The memories seem to be a strong aspect of the heart, yet some memories are able to be recovered by nobodies. I think Axel states that he's had memories of his former self before. But I can't quite remember. As for Ventus, he had lost his memories and regained them... Proving that they are quite powerful.

This leads to me thinking that memories may be part of the mind, yet it is stated that it is of the heart.

What I'd like to know, is when an existence dies or becomes a heartless, where do the memories go?

( PS: Oh, btw, i finally beat MF on crit at lvl 58! :3 )
 
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Luxionoverdrive

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How Roxas actually can feel Ven's feelings?
And the memories which Roxas and Xion are not lost but keep within them right?

Only because when Sora became a heartless..I think a big chunk of Ventus's heart was taken making Roxas look like Ventus..I thinkkk
 

Sephiroth0812

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Well. The memories seem to be a strong aspect of the heart, yet some memories are able to be recovered by nobodies. I think Axel states that he's had memories of his former self before. But I can't quite remember. As for Ventus, he had lost his memories and regained them... Proving that they are quite powerful.

This leads to me thinking that memories may be part of the mind, yet it is stated that it is of the heart.

What I'd like to know, is when an existence dies or becomes a heartless, where do the memories go?

( PS: Oh, btw, i finally beat MT on crit at lvl 58! :3 )

Exactly, it was stated in Chain of Memories that memories are a crucial part of a heart. A heart stripped of all memories collapses.
Yet memories are not confined to the heart as they can flow around and also stored either in body or soul (hence normal nobodies having memories from their former selves).
Yes, memories are pretty powerful and important, if not even possibly the most powerful part of the existence we have seen so far. Memories are also seem to be immortal, as it was stated that memories can never truly fade, only forgotten or lost.

For the mind, we don't know yet what exactly the mind comprises, yet it is clear that, despite not having an own heart, Naminé has still a mind inside Kairi, while Xion and Roxas do the same inside Sora, so memories most likely do have a connection.

Becoming a heartless would be two possibilities:
1. no nobody is created (the normal case): The heart is overcome by its darkness and the memories are cast out, probably fading away with the body and turn inactive inside the body until the heartless is defeated and the heart freed.
2. a nobody is created (rare case): The memories flow from the heart (which is a heartless now) to the nobody, enabling him/her to remember his/her former life. Sora's exceptionally short time as a heartless actually prevented this, that's why Roxas is so unique and could develop as an independent, own person. Kairi however never became a heartless, therefore no memory-transfer either.

If a being dies however I would assume the memories stay inside the heart and go back to Kingdom Hearts with it.

---
Lol, don't you mean MF => Mysterious Figure? Or who's MT?

Luxionoverdrive said:
Only because when Sora became a heartless..I think a big chunk of Ventus's heart was taken making Roxas look like Ventus..I thinkkk

Nearly correct, it was Ven's entire wounded heart that remained in Sora's body after being kicked out of Sora's heart, which became a heartless.
This caused Sora's body to look like Ventus, which was then occupied by Roxas and used by him for a year.
 

Megavoltage

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So memories flow from the heart. Ven's heart was inside Sora and Roxas. When Ven wakes up could he have the memories of both Sora and Roxas inside him?
 

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Exactly, it was stated in Chain of Memories that memories are a crucial part of a heart. A heart stripped of all memories collapses.
Yet memories are not confined to the heart as they can flow around and also stored either in body or soul (hence normal nobodies having memories from their former selves).
Yes, memories are pretty powerful and important, if not even possibly the most powerful part of the existence we have seen so far. Memories are also seem to be immortal, as it was stated that memories can never truly fade, only forgotten or lost.

For the mind, we don't know yet what exactly the mind comprises, yet it is clear that, despite not having an own heart, Naminé has still a mind inside Kairi, while Xion and Roxas do the same inside Sora, so memories most likely do have a connection.

Becoming a heartless would be two possibilities:
1. no nobody is created (the normal case): The heart is overcome by its darkness and the memories are cast out, probably fading away with the body and turn inactive inside the body until the heartless is defeated and the heart freed.
2. a nobody is created (rare case): The memories flow from the heart (which is a heartless now) to the nobody, enabling him/her to remember his/her former life. Sora's exceptionally short time as a heartless actually prevented this, that's why Roxas is so unique and could develop as an independent, own person. Kairi however never became a heartless, therefore no memory-transfer either.

If a being dies however I would assume the memories stay inside the heart and go back to Kingdom Hearts with it.

---
Lol, don't you mean MF => Mysterious Figure? Or who's MT?



Nearly correct, it was Ven's entire wounded heart that remained in Sora's body after being kicked out of Sora's heart, which became a heartless.
This caused Sora's body to look like Ventus, which was then occupied by Roxas and used by him for a year.

Since we know nobodies are formed from a person who creates a heartless and has a strong heart, would it be crazy to say that strong hearts resonate memories onto the soul and the body? Meaning, Sora's heart is the strongest of all we have seen so far and that it literally attaches to nearby bodies, hearts, and souls just by being near them or caring for them?

I do really like that rare case you gave, though.
 

Crystal

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So memories flow from the heart. Ven's heart was inside Sora and Roxas. When Ven wakes up could he have the memories of both Sora and Roxas inside him?

They were seperate independent existence, i think they will having own memories .
Not sure whether i'm correct or not.
 

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That also reminds me, who/what is Namine...?
I don't get it. o.0

This is basically Namine in a summary I took from : Kingdom Hearts Insider
Picture: Namine image by lazyderrick09 on Photobucket

_____________________Namine.jpg


Age: 15(physically)
Homeworld: None

Namine is a delicate young woman, quiet and painfully shy. She resided in Castle Oblivion under the watchful eye of the Organization, unwillingly playing a pawn in their plans to manipulate the forces of light. However, after rearranging Sora's memories so she would replace Kairi in his mind, Sora's forgiveness and her own conscience (as well as prompting from Axel) drove her to tell him the truth and put his memories back in order. Now, she watches over Sora as he sleeps, restoring his lost memories a little at a time. She uses her sketchbook to draw over the links of his memories.

Why is it that Namine can so easily replace Kairi in Sora's heart? Moreover, what does she mean when she says she is "Kairi's shadow"...?


Of course we know much more now, but I didn't want to be a spoiler
 

Sephiroth0812

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Naminé is the "nobody" of Kairi, born from Kairi's heart but using Sora's body and soul in the process because Kairi's heart was within Sora when all that happened.
Naminé is a very special kind/type of nobody because she literally has nothing a nobody normally has.
Roxas and Naminé are both unique in the terms that they co-existed with their "other selves", enabling them to form an independent mind, personality and thoughts, yet they still are special in different ways, as Roxas unknowingly carried Ven's injured heart around while Naminé is really a nobody in the truest sense.
As she literally has nothing yet still exists.
 
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