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What would you do to make the serie more accessible to newcomers?



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Blenderudit

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I hear a lot of people who say that they are willing to try KH, but they are affraid by the massive amount of entries the series contain. Not to mention that a lot of those entries contain the same disney worlds over and over again. This results in people grabbing a random title and being confused and frustrated by the story, thus resulting in the reputation that KH is convoluted.
If you were in charge of the series, what would you do to help newcomers getting into it?

Personally, I would try to find a way to fuse the spinoffs into numeral titles. For example, chain of memories could be unlocked after kh1 like a dlc (limit cut episode for example) and it would be as short as possible (remove all the redundancy of Disney worlds and only keep the focus on castle oblivion). For days, I would do it the same way but inside kh2.

Well something like that so that instead of having 10 titles, there are only 3 or 4 and the side games would be included in main entries in a lighter way.

What about you? What do you say to people who complain they do not have 200 hours to catch up the story? Do you think that it is an issue?
 

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I really don't understand this mindset of: "I want to try it, but I'm scared of the time I have to put into ending the series.", why? I'll explain.

1 - Why are you afraid of the lenght of a series if you don't even know if you'll enjoy the games?
2 - Are you afraid of getting bored of the games and not finishing the series after 1 or 2 games?
3 - Are you afraid you'll end up enjoying it and having more games to have fun?

It makes no sense, why would you be scared of either of those propositions? Just give the 1st game a go and if you enjoy it keep going. No one is forcing anyone into rushing through the games, no one is forcing anyone into finishing the saga. It just feels like you're already starting this series looking at it like it is a chore or something.

But well, just a pet peeve of mine. I think "The story so far" is already perfectly accessible to newcomers, my only problem with it is CoM. CoM to me is the title that can completely turn someone off of KH. If you enjoy KH 1 and go directly to CoM, the change in gameplay and the repeated worlds is a very bad way to continue the story.

I'm a big BIG defender of skipping it. In KH2 sora doesn't even know what happens there, so I don't think people would be to lost since they would feel the confusion sora feels, well I know I didn't feel lost. Just make CoM a cutscene movie or like you said, a short game with reworked gameplay that focuses more on Castle Oblivion.
 

Blenderudit

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But well, just a pet peeve of mine. I think "The story so far" is already perfectly accessible to newcomers, my only problem with it is CoM. CoM to me is the title that can completely turn someone off of KH. If you enjoy KH 1 and go directly to CoM, the change in gameplay and the repeated worlds is a very bad way to continue the story.

I'm a big BIG defender of skipping it. In KH2 sora doesn't even know what happens there, so I don't think people would be to lost since they would feel the confusion sora feels, well I know I didn't feel lost. Just make CoM a cutscene movie or like you said, a short game with reworked gameplay that focuses more on Castle Oblivion.
Yes, chain of memories is a good game with a great story but gameplay is complex and can scare people who just finished kh1. Thus my idea of fusing it as a post game episode after the 1st game with very simple gameplay and no disney world so that it can be done easily.
 

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Yes, chain of memories is a good game with a great story but gameplay is complex and can scare people who just finished kh1. Thus my idea of fusing it as a post game episode after the 1st game with very simple gameplay and no disney world so that it can be done easily.
I mean the gameplay is scary on PS2/3/4/whatever. It was perfect for GBA when it first came out.

I don't know if I would want the Disney worlds erased from CoM because then the narrative would be going upstairs and each level is boss fight after boss fight. And would Destiny Islands and Twilight Town be cutscene only?
 

Blenderudit

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I mean the gameplay is scary on PS2/3/4/whatever. It was perfect for GBA when it first came out.

I don't know if I would want the Disney worlds erased from CoM because then the narrative would be going upstairs and each level is boss fight after boss fight. And would Destiny Islands and Twilight Town be cutscene only?
Do you remember how castle oblivion was done in re: coded? It was much better in term of progression.
 

AdrianXXII

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Do you remember how castle oblivion was done in re: coded? It was much better in term of progression.
A bit, but it still felt like you were retreading the same thing for the 3rd time in the game. That said, I could see that type of implementation working somewhat well for your suggested truncated dlc COM.
 

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I thought 3D did well as far as a journal entry explaining what happened in each game in the series. They should just continue to use those in every game going forward for anyone who happens to just pick up KH4 or 5 or whatever and isn't 100% on what's happening.
 

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I thought 3D did well as far as a journal entry explaining what happened in each game in the series. They should just continue to use those in every game going forward for anyone who happens to just pick up KH4 or 5 or whatever and isn't 100% on what's happening.
I think the OP's concern was the massive amount of information that one has to consume to understand KH beyond the bare minimum. Most casuals will not read the journal entries and if they're playing KH1, they probably will not even understand what the Ansem reports are or maybe read the first one you get (which is not the actual first one), so they mey get confused and not bother. I personally would love if each journal moving forward contained key things like Kingdom Hearts, nobodies etc. just to have that information there. I always felt like Nomura should throw things like where Kairi got her keyblade and other stuff that has long passed the point of an actual in-game explanation, but a journal entry can suffice.

Granted, @Katsagu made a good point about new players having to invest time in the series. Which is why I think they should just play KH1, the game with the least amount of information to digest, then decide whether they want to invest from there. I don't really see the need to "dumb down" the series at this point. We're over a decade in, there's multiple resources now that the Dark Seeker Saga is over to find answers if one is confused. A lot of the people complaining that KH is so confusing, in my opinion, are just lazy. The plot isn't that hard to follow if you play all the games. Even without me reading and researching all the extra stuff that doesn't pertain to the main plot (like why Roxas can dual wield), if I just play the games alone and watch the cutscenes, I can understand the main plot well enough.
 

Blenderudit

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I think the OP's concern was the massive amount of information that one has to consume to understand KH beyond the bare minimum. Most casuals will not read the journal entries and if they're playing KH1, they probably will not even understand what the Ansem reports are or maybe read the first one you get (which is not the actual first one), so they mey get confused and not bother. I personally would love if each journal moving forward contained key things like Kingdom Hearts, nobodies etc. just to have that information there. I always felt like Nomura should throw things like where Kairi got her keyblade and other stuff that has long passed the point of an actual in-game explanation, but a journal entry can suffice.

Granted, @Katsagu made a good point about new players having to invest time in the series. Which is why I think they should just play KH1, the game with the least amount of information to digest, then decide whether they want to invest from there. I don't really see the need to "dumb down" the series at this point. We're over a decade in, there's multiple resources now that the Dark Seeker Saga is over to find answers if one is confused. A lot of the people complaining that KH is so confusing, in my opinion, are just lazy. The plot isn't that hard to follow if you play all the games. Even without me reading and researching all the extra stuff that doesn't pertain to the main plot (like why Roxas can dual wield), if I just play the games alone and watch the cutscenes, I can understand the main plot well enough.
Yes I see your point. You can get info on internet. However, If I knew nothing about KH right now and was looking for a new serie, I would start doing research about it (like I did for Xenoblade) and when I would realise they are 10 entries (6 being 30 hours playable), I would probably be scared and move away.
 

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Yes I see your point. You can get info on internet. However, If I knew nothing about KH right now and was looking for a new serie, I would start doing research about it (like I did for Xenoblade) and when I would realise they are 10 entries (6 being 30 hours playable), I would probably be scared and move away.
Why would you be scared though? Wouldn't that make you more excited to know that there's lots of content for you to explore? The fact that All In One package is $30 and 1.5 and 2.5 together is about $20 should be enough to entice you to give it a try.

I mean, I kind of get it because when I'm looking for a new TV show to watch and I see there's 10 seasons, I don't even bother. But I think that's different because the quality of the TV show could decline as the show goes on and the enjoyment factor can wear off. I think with a game, if you have fun with it, even if the story goes crazy, it's still fun to play.
 

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Why would you be scared though? Wouldn't that make you more excited to know that there's lots of content for you to explore? The fact that All In One package is $30 and 1.5 and 2.5 together is about $20 should be enough to entice you to give it a try.

I mean, I kind of get it because when I'm looking for a new TV show to watch and I see there's 10 seasons, I don't even bother. But I think that's different because the quality of the TV show could decline as the show goes on and the enjoyment factor can wear off. I think with a game, if you have fun with it, even if the story goes crazy, it's still fun to play.
Yes of course, I would start and fall in love with it probably. But the huge amount of entries make it feel bloated and has probably discouraged more than one person. Hopefully the all in one package fixes this a bit due to being cheap and in one box.
 

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The large number of games that are all contributing to the main plot can be daunting. It's a problem lot of long running stories face. Comics over the years have tried different ways of dealing with it, with varying degrees of success. The longer something runs with a on going narrative and multiple characters the harder it can be for new people to get in.

One thing I think the series needs is a good jumping on point. I think that's part of why some fans had been hoping that there'd be a clean ending to the Dark Seeker Saga. So that when the next Saga started it'd be a clean slate and easy for everyone to jump on and follow.

Part of me feels like that's what MoM was aiming to be but with it deviating from the series usual gameplay I'm not sure how successful it'll be as the new jumping off point for the series.
 

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Honestly, I'd just let them know upfront that KH2 is a great, satisfying ending, and the can either drop off there or keep going. I love the whole series and all its weirdness, but it might be a lot easier to get someone started if they have the option to play two and a half games instead of nine.
 

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It'd help if we got the KH games on Switch. ._. But that doesn't seem to be happening outside of Melody, which kinda stinks. Switch is a really popular platform right now.

'm actually kinda wary of them spreading the series too thin. That's what made it so inaccessible in the first place, but the HD collections are a good start for now, at least. I'd also recommend Everglow's Timeline series for Days and UX.
 

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It'd help if we got the KH games on Switch. ._. But that doesn't seem to be happening outside of Melody, which kinda stinks. Switch is a really popular platform right now.

'm actually kinda wary of them spreading the series too thin. That's what made it so inaccessible in the first place, but the HD collections are a good start for now, at least. I'd also recommend Everglow's Timeline series for Days and UX.
Switch and PC yes. More platforms would help.
 

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I feel like Nomura + team have done a few things for newcomers to catch up:

- Short story YouTube videos (the ones Chirithy narrates)
- Previous games as videos (Coded & 358/2 Days)
- Couple other things

I thought it was announced that previous games were coming to Xbox, but not sure if true. (Announced at X019 event). Honestly, there is also a ton of non-official material on the web too.
 

Blenderudit

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I feel like Nomura + team have done a few things for newcomers to catch up:

- Short story YouTube videos (the ones Chirithy narrates)
- Previous games as videos (Coded & 358/2 Days)
- Couple other things

I thought it was announced that previous games were coming to Xbox, but not sure if true. (Announced at X019 event). Honestly, there is also a ton of non-official material on the web too.
All games are on xbox since a while now. ;)
 
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