What's the big problem with KH2 plot wise

[8298906]

I also don't think it was a good idea for Nomura to introduce the concept of having no emotion, as emotion is what makes a character multi-dimensional.

I'll have to disagree with this, tho writing the concept of characters with no emotions wile trying to make them 'multi-dimensional' is difficult it isn't achievable. They did good with some characters(like Larxene, Zexion, and Xigbar just some from off the top of my head) but like you said:

The reason why Axel is so memorable to everyone, including the Square-Enix staff, was because he had freaking emotions even though they were fake.

All of the organization fake as if they can feel doesn't mean you can use that to reflect on their past, & relationships with certain characters in order to develop them(cause if they didn't do that with Axel then what did they do with him).

 

[Malisteen]

I still feel 13 was a good number. You needed enough members to have multiple overlapping subgroups plotting against one another over multiple games. That means about five or six members each for CoM and KHII, not counting Roxas or Xemnas. 10 to 13 is the right number to have, depending on how many they wanted to actually kill off in CoM. I suppose if they had decided to kill off fewer members in CoM, they could have gotten away with 7 or 8 total, but as it is...

No, the problem is that KHII simply failed to use the organization to its potential. What they were was explained too early, eating into their mystery. And the game just didn't have the sub groups working against each other bit that made them so cool in CoM, and that justified the large size of their group to begin with. They should have been using Sora against each other, some of them should have seemed to defect and help Sora in unexpected ways in bids to take over the organization, only to have Xemnas know about it all along and be using Sora to backstab all of them. Using Sora to kill the rest of the organization off after they were no longer useful to him should have been part of Xemnas's plot all along.

Again, overall I did like KHII, including its plot. I just don't think it was quite as good as KHI or CoM. In plot, of course, in gameplay it was better then CoM - I wasn't a fan of the card gimmick, and hated grinding for moogle points, but anyway.

 

[Silverslide]

I still feel 13 was a good number. You needed enough members to have multiple overlapping subgroups plotting against one another over multiple games. That means about five or six members each for CoM and KHII, not counting Roxas or Xemnas. 10 to 13 is the right number to have, depending on how many they wanted to actually kill off in CoM. I suppose if they had decided to kill off fewer members in CoM, they could have gotten away with 7 or 8 total, but as it is...

No, the problem is that KHII simply failed to use the organization to its potential. What they were was explained too early, eating into their mystery. And the game just didn't have the sub groups working against each other bit that made them so cool in CoM, and that justified the large size of their group to begin with. They should have been using Sora against each other, some of them should have seemed to defect and help Sora in unexpected ways in bids to take over the organization, only to have Xemnas know about it all along and be using Sora to backstab all of them. Using Sora to kill the rest of the organization off after they were no longer useful to him should have been part of Xemnas's plot all along.

Again, overall I did like KHII, including its plot. I just don't think it was quite as good as KHI or CoM. In plot, of course, in gameplay it was better then CoM - I wasn't a fan of the card gimmick, and hated grinding for moogle points, but anyway.

The number isnt the problem. The problem is him introducing these characters while we know NOTHING about them. For example: Akatsuki from naruto and soul society from bleach developed and gave background on their new characters these guys come out of nowhere, we fight them, and they arent heard of again.

 

[Wehrmacht]

KH2 had some good ideas that could have made for a decent plot, but the execution was terribad. The Organization is quite possibly the worst thing that's happened to the series. 13 characters and we know dick shit about most of them. I don't think you even hear Demyx or Xigbar's names spoken. :/

 

[gelandporn]

I think some of you forget that by and large all Kingdom Hearts villains are pretty one dimensional. That's really to be expected in a game that dichotomizes good and evil based on fairy tales.
Xehanort's Heartless? Think his hammy ass is well developed?
My point being, whether it's one villain or thirteen, it's pretty obvious most of them weren't supposed to be developed. So it's not even a matter of "thirteen is too many so they won't have enough time to develop." That is, the scope of the villains does not affect their depth- you're not trading one for the other. Hell, in a game explicitly devoted to them, we really didn't get any character development, save for the obvious (Roxas and Axel) and one or two not so obvious (Xigbar and Saix- though I'd hardly call it "development").

And don't give me this garbage about how the CoM members were better developed. Screen time doesn't equate to development. The CoM members, from beginning to end, were just as stereotypically one dimensional as the other members, and even more so in some respects. If you want to argue that individual KH2 Organization members didn't get enough limelight or exposition, fine. But personally, I enjoy when a villain is shrouded in mystery, when their motives are unclear. The KH2 Organization was more of a dark horse simply because we didn't get constant cutscenes between floors (or in this case, worlds) explaining what they were up to.

Now, as for my thoughts on the biggest plot-wise issue, I was really not a fan of the second visit formula. Each visit felt like an isolated "episode," but I'd have rather had one long visit instead because, more often than not, the second visits felt even more like filler (except, maybe, Agrabah). Also, while pretty much most of the games suffer from this, I really disliked how they rushed everything at the end. Killing four Organization members back to back? Yeah...
I would have much preferred for, at least, say Xigbar and definitely Luxord to have been killed at Land of Dragons and Port Royal.

 

[Deebunie]

Well the thing is, as I see it is Xemnas really isn't evil. In fact I don't think the organization is supposed to be evil. I mean come on, all they're trying to do is get there hearts back. A theory I've thought about is maybe Xehanort's heartless is like 85% Master Xehanort cause as you could see he was truly evil trying to take over the universe and such. While Xehanort's nobody was like 85% Terra, especially seeing him talk to Aqua's discarded armor. Back to the organization, could you really look at Demyx and think "evil, malicious". NOW ON THE OTHER HAND Marluxia and Larxene from CoM are insane pychopaths, but maybe that was just their original personalities.

 

[Sign]

NOW ON THE OTHER HAND Marluxia and Larxene from CoM are insane pychopaths, but maybe that was just their original personalities.

I think the novels implied that Larxene had a shitty life prior to becoming a Nobody.

 

[Silverslide]

I think some of you forget that by and large all Kingdom Hearts villains are pretty one dimensional. That's really to be expected in a game that dichotomizes good and evil based on fairy tales.
Xehanort's Heartless? Think his hammy ass is well developed?
My point being, whether it's one villain or thirteen, it's pretty obvious most of them weren't supposed to be developed. So it's not even a matter of "thirteen is too many so they won't have enough time to develop." That is, the scope of the villains does not affect their depth- you're not trading one for the other. Hell, in a game explicitly devoted to them, we really didn't get any character development, save for the obvious (Roxas and Axel) and one or two not so obvious (Xigbar and Saix- though I'd hardly call it "development").

And don't give me this garbage about how the CoM members were better developed. Screen time doesn't equate to development. The CoM members, from beginning to end, were just as stereotypically one dimensional as the other members, and even more so in some respects. If you want to argue that individual KH2 Organization members didn't get enough limelight or exposition, fine. But personally, I enjoy when a villain is shrouded in mystery, when their motives are unclear. The KH2 Organization was more of a dark horse simply because we didn't get constant cutscenes between floors (or in this case, worlds) explaining what they were up to.

Now, as for my thoughts on the biggest plot-wise issue, I was really not a fan of the second visit formula. Each visit felt like an isolated "episode," but I'd have rather had one long visit instead because, more often than not, the second visits felt even more like filler (except, maybe, Agrabah). Also, while pretty much most of the games suffer from this, I really disliked how they rushed everything at the end. Killing four Organization members back to back? Yeah...
I would have much preferred for, at least, say Xigbar and definitely Luxord to have been killed at Land of Dragons and Port Royal.

Well, some of the Org members obviously have some relevance since they returned in another game. All of the scientists in Radiant Garden and stuff, yet we still know NOTHING about them except for Xigbar maybe. That just seems odd to me.

 

[magic713]

i have to agree with what many people have said about the Org. 13. They were characters that had potential for becoming very intriguing, but they came off as very dull characters, with little development to catch my interest. Not to mention the whole idea that Nobodies don't have feelings, but they pretend to have them, just sounded stupid. And the speech that Nobodies don't exist just didn't sit right with me.

I didn't like the Disney worlds' plots and storylines. They seemed too short for me. I also wished they tried to mix in more Disney villains into the main plot like they did in the first Kingdom Hearts. Not like making a second group of Disney villain who get together for multiple world domination, but to actually make it look like they did have some contribution (even a tiny one) on the main plot.

I also wished they had more Nobody bosses who didn't have human forms. i like the Twilight Thorn and I thought I'd see more Nobody bosses like it, but all I got were Disney villains, Heartless and human formed Nobodies.

And, of course, just because Sora was in deep slumber for some time, did not mean that they had to make him look like he lost a few brain cells at the time. He just came off as less mature than he was in the first game.

 

[Lukar]

My only problems with KH2 were Sora's sudden semi-stupidity, the long intro/tutorial featuring Roxas (Although he is one of my favorite characters), and the fact that the Disney worlds were just kinda there for the hell of it. Oh, and the relative lack of difficulty.

Despite those problems, it's my third favorite game in the series, behind BbS and Re:CoM.

 

[Zarin I Yehudahi]

Xemnas is actually more evil if you count all the shit he did in Days

 

[Vanitas666]

Xemnas is actually more evil if you count all the shit he did in Days

I feel sorry for the guy if it is like Grass said in his awsome theory some weeks/months ago (time flyes)

Spoiler Show

Xemnas would then be Terra and wanting to become some ultimate being to save Ven and Aqua and repay them for leting them down. (would also explain why he's not using a keyblade - would show his identity)

 

[Soren]

I my self didn't see much of a problem with the plot of KH2. They only problem i saw was the fact the Disney worlds didnt connect, the shitty side villains, and the bad dialogue. Other than that i didnt see much problem with the plot.

That WAS the problem. In KH1 the story was a LOT more connected.

I think the main issue is the lack of a main villain team for the Disney worlds. Because the villains within the Disney worlds didn't work together like they did in KH1, the Disney worlds in KH2 all stood apart from one another. Although Pete was trying to make a team, his antics proved to be no more than a running gag within the game. This made the stories within the worlds seem more like sidequests than actual plot. As a result, while the issues with Org XIII were a big deal an led up to some very interesting story telling, they didn't give enough to make up for the connectivity that the Disney worlds lacked.

So, story-line wise, KH2 was inferior to KH1. I think that's the main issue for me.

EDIT- I also forgot about the lack of difficulty when it came to battles. In KH1, you had to learn to read enemy patterns, memorize elements, and always remain on guard. This became especially important after freeing Kairi's heart, when heartless throughout all of Interspace had an immediate boost in power. You could also rely on Donald and Goofy to save you and help you fight battles, IF you wanted to. The use of tech points also encouraged you to learn the tricks of the battle system.

That said, the difficulty in KH2 pales in comparison to KH1. Most enemies could be killed quite easily with Sora's Keyblade. This made strategy completely useless, as learning an enemy's weakness took a back seat to button mashing. In addition, there were several solo battles thrown in that didn't have to be there. (the battle with the 1000 heartless, the first fight on the mountain in Land of Dragons, etc.) Lastly, Donald and Goofy became completely useless! In KH1, Donald could cast 1 Thunder spell and wipe out a roomful of heartless. In KH2, however, Donald has trouble killing a Shadow. Goofy, on the other hand, used to be extremely helpful because of his massive shields and MP Gift ability. In KH2, however, the only move Goofy learns that is of any use to the player is a revamped Goofy tornado, which deals minimal damage at best.

 

[Hopeless]

With KH2 I started to notice they used the "someone says something attempting to be humorous or is mildly awkward, someone laughs, the whole groups begins to laugh, and the scene pans away" technique in a lot of cutscenes. I really hope the plot writers stop that, because I've noticed it happening a lot more in the following games.

 

[Allister Rose]

Perosnally, i think sora had random rage moments. In kh1 and COM he seemed to be willing to listen until proven to be threatening.

in kh2, he automatically knows, and ruins the tension between him in org. 13. I always say that it would've been interesting to keep org. 13 motives a secret until somewhere in the middle, and the first half just looking for them to see if he can figure it out.

the story, was just vague, you get the idea (and the idea was good), but details were more necessary in kh2 than in kh1 and the connection bettween the player and the person has faded. It seemed like in the end was just a giant stack of randomness. scenes such as Axel kidnapping kairi so he can turn into aheartless, instead oof showing previous attempts first.

DiZ and Nanime, where were they the whole time? Riku appeared in some scenes, but what was he trying to do? Why was sora being so angry with org. 13 when they didn't do anything to him personaly (up until Saix).


they could've made disney world more involved, such as each org member trying to change turn someone in each world into a heartless. not just xaldin getting the fun.

the story just didn't flow right, and on top of that, not allt he worlds were part of the main story

 

[Sephiroth0812]

not allt he worlds were part of the main story

But wasn't this also the case in KH I?
As far as I remember you could play through KH I without even visit Olympus Coliseum and Monstro at all.
In KH II the only world I remember that didn't connect directly to the main story and was skippable is Pride Lands.

 

[Ophan]

The Olympus Coliseum had Hades who was part of Maleficents league of villains in the game, and Monstro was not optional.

In KH2 The little Mermaid world was optional, but if you really wanted Magnega, you had to endure the worst

 

[Allister Rose]

kh2 is probably a better game than kh1 in means of gameplay and features. But it fails as a full fledge RPG IMO. the cast sounded bad, and we really couldn't connect we the characters as much.

anda gain up to the point where axel kidnaps kairi is where allt his randomness comes up.

 

[Smile]

Doubtful I'm bringing in anything new but so what.

The fact Sora was a cameo in the Disney movies, more or less. I did not get the freaking game so you'd sing Hakuna Matata and cheer on Simba while HE fights a Heartless Scar, mmkay, Sora Honey?
Also, some contradictions like Atlantica. I guess that's one set of Memories Namine never bothered giving people back about Ursula.
Anything of true importance like Axel and Namine running from the Organization, or what's been up with Riku and Mickey or Diz was left completely out in favor of aforementioned Disney shenanigans and forced laughter.
Oh and FAR too much of THIS.

The Olympus Coliseum had Hades who was part of Maleficents league of villains in the game, and Monstro was not optional.

Monstro in a sense WAS optional, IIRC. You can get to Hollow Bastion and have Riku become Rikunort without completing Monstro (granted, you still get chewed by him).
If you do, and then come back and play Monstro, you get a whole new story since Riku is unavailable to kidnap Pinnochio.

 

[Ophan]

Monstro in a sense WAS optional, IIRC. You can get to Hollow Bastion and have Riku become Rikunort without completing Monstro (granted, you still get chewed by him).
If you do, and then come back and play Monstro, you get a whole new story since Riku is unavailable to kidnap Pinnochio.

hmmm....i had no idea. I guess i should replay KH1 to see this through :/