Slow clap for this whole post but as for the bolded part:
I think a lot of people think Ventus and Vanitas are one person again as in "Vanitas is gone and Ventus has a whole heart of light and darkness again".
But exactly the fact that Vanitas is his own person with his own emotions and memories makes that theory practically impossible. Sure, the end of BBS might have suggested this somehow, but I'd blame that on the fact that showing Ventus's "freed" heart without giving away (or even yet: deciding, because who knows if Nomura actually planned anything for Vanitas back then) too much of what happened to Vanitas was a little tricky probably. This way, they're basically free to do with him what they want now, exactly because we have no definite idea of what happened.
Thanks. *bows*
Well, to be fair Ventus
did state that he wants to "destroy" Vanitas and when he bursts into sparkles in the end and Ventus' station is restored it can be interpreted differently, namely that beyond relinquishing all control and fading away that he also becomes part of Ventus (which directly contradicts one of the two main goals of the final battle since Ventus did
not want to fuse with Vanitas and thus one of the main goals was to
break the fusion, not finish it.
Vanitas was to one who wanted to finish the fusion).
While DDD was the first title to outright
confirm (read: deliver on a silver platter) that everything can grow its own heart, the hints and implications towards this were scattered throughout the entire series since Chain of Memories and Vanitas at one point being completely fine with just annihilating Ventus outright also shows that "they need to fuse back together" is not the inevitable outcome some people interpret into it.
Just because Vanitas is an "evil" character doesn't mean that the same rules and possibilities that are there for Roxas, Xion and Naminé don't apply also to him.
There was not even an inevitable need for Sora and Roxas to fuse back together at first. It only became an inevitable necessity
after Naminé messed up Sora's memories and through Xion's absorption ability loose memories of Sora ended up everywhere across Xion and Roxas due to their heart connections. Thus claims made by DiZ or Naminé towards Roxas
needing to fuse back with Sora only came from these circumstances, not because it was a "natural" thing which needed to happen.
During a conversation with Riku in Days (one of the few good things that came from Days' story) Naminé even admits that she theoretically could restore Sora's memories without having Xion and Roxas fuse back into Sora, but in that case she would have to put both Roxas and Xion to sleep as well and tinker around with their own memories in order to salvage those belonging to Sora which would take several years, time they didn't have because a) DiZ was already getting impatient and wouldn't allow it and b) Xemnas' plans made steady progress.
Leaving things ambigious is Nomura's usual modus operandi because he likes to have the audience coming to their own interpretations and of course because it allows him to use such undefined situations as a hook to spin a new story/character arc from.
I just hope KH3 does a better job of fleshing out his character than BBS. Though that may be wishful thinking given how much KH3 has on its plate.
See, this is one of the reasons why, no matter how interesting it may be on its own, I am not really that thrilled about the whole stuff with the X-era, Foretellers and all that extra baggage which depending on how much impact it has on KH III itself may only serve to clutter things up more resulting in the end in yet more possible characterisation for characters who would need it being waved to the side.
Sephiroth, your post is amazing, thank you so much :')
I forget I need to someday add all the Ultimania books to my collection.
That does make it seem more likely he's with the Norts. However, my interpretation of Vanitas being in Sora's heart was more that he has a connection to Sora through Ven (hence his appearance), and I agree that the destruction of the X-blade would mean both Ven and Vanitas's heart needed to take refuge somewhere. He definitely has a connection with Sora's heart, and because it's already shown that other hearts can reside within Sora's, to me it makes sense that Vanitas's could go there. As far as we know, Xehanort's heart hasn't harbored any others.
That's very true. They were vague about it, so they could do anything. But I definitely agree that Vanitas is his own person and isn't just completely gone with Ventus having a whole heart. Like I can see how people may have come to that conclusion, but I just think it's wrong. I don't think Ven has a whole heart again yet in the first place (maybe by now, but not at the end of BBS), but even if he did, it would be because of Sora's heart/the light/whatever healed him again, not because Vanitas merged with him.
Because the first time his heart was fractured, it healed without Vanitas. He wouldn't need Vanitas for it to heal again.
Always glad when I can be of help. ^__^
It's a shame the Ultimanias are Japan-only because many people would probably understand the main story better if they were available to a broader audience.
KH's story is not really "convoluted" or complicated on its own, but it becomes like it due to several errors made in its presentation, one being to not include several important things in the primary medium.
Ah, I see, but the thing is that Vanitas has no
direct connection with Sora because his appearance is only like that due to Ventus' connection with Sora in the first place (another Ultimania thing sadly, and it's the reason why even today there are still many fans who are confused as to why Vanitas looks like he does):
BBS Ultimania said:
-- How did you decide on the design for their faces?
Nomura: Well Terra's look was already a decided thing, we just had to make him look a bit younger. I knew that Ventus should look either like Sora or Roxas, and I wasn't sure which one to go with, but I thought Vanitas looking like Sora would have a bigger impact so I had Ventus look like Roxas instead. And there is a reason that Vanitas looks like Sora. As Sora filled in Ventus' fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Sora's face. So if it had been Riku who had filled in Ventus' heart, Vanitas would have looked like Riku.
The crux is the connection Ventus' heart made and that Vanitas was
affected by that connection, but it does nowhere state that there's an actual connection between Ventus' savior and Vanitas himself.
The same can actually be said for Ventus and Roxas as well since despite them looking like identical twins, Roxas is
Sora's Nobody and got nothing from Ven except the appearance (and he "accessed" Ven's heart once when Xion dies and accidentally unlocks Ven's Keyblade and with that dual-wielding) so they have no
direct connection, Sora is between them as another "station" in the network.
Like this:
Roxas <=> Sora <=> Ventus <=> Vanitas.
Sora and Ventus are practically the "basics" and Roxas and Vanitas the "offshoots" who look like one basic but were actually spawned from the other basic.
Oh well, Ven did have a "whole heart" throughout BBS itself because his heart was nurtured and "formed" by his connections to Aqua, Terra and Eraqus (them being responsible for largely restoring his heart might also be an explanation as to why Ventus is so clingy when it comes to them) throughout the four years between Vanitas' creation and the beginning of BBS.
Terra even references this when he talks with Xehanort:
BBS said:
Master Xehanort... Ventus has gotten a lot better since then. You shouldn't blame yourself for trying to save him.
Sora's newborn heart saved Ventus' heart from completely breaking apart in the Prologue and helped him to awake, yes, but Sora didn't heal him up completely as seen in the scene where he first comes to Land of Departure.
Nomura yet again confirms this in the Ultimania, speaking about "hearts being formed" way before DDD was ever a thing:
BBS Ultimania said:
-- Ventus awakens with Sora's help, but at first his eyes are blank, and when he first meets Terra and Aqua he falls asleep under their barrage of questions.
Nomura: At that time, although Ventus has awakened, his heart is not fully formed. The imagery is the same as the first week after Roxas entered the organisation in "KH Days", when he was spacing out.
"His heart is not fully formed".
By the time BBS itself starts however, Ven is much more stable and "functioning" which is an indicator of his heart having healed throughout the four years and which is more or less confirmed by Terra's statements above.
His heart was shattered again at the end though due to the whole X-blade-business, not because of the forced fusion with Vanitas being undone.
Completely correct. Both their hearts can grow/heal independent from each other due to the fact that hearts can evolve.
Permadeath is a thing though. Kairi's grandmother eventually passed away due to old age. And Repliku died a permanent death with no signs of revival.
Do we actually have any confirmation for both of those?
Kairi's grandma simply isn't referenced anywhere anymore and it is just as possible that she got turned into a Heartless when Radiant Garden fell to Maleficent's invasion or that she was fed to some Heartless as an experiment by Xehanort, Braig & co.
Xehanort/Ansem SoD did take Kairi and threw her out into the ocean of worlds, so it isn't too farfetched that in the same chain of events he also "takes care" of granny by either designating her another specimen for experiments or just send a horde of Heartless after her.
Riku Replica simply disappeared into Darkness, the way he goes not being that much different than Axel's, Xion's or Ansem the Wise's. It is nowhere stated that he's "deader than dead" either and the Chain of Memories Chronicle has this to state:
DDD said:
Before Riku could reach Naminé, he was confronted by the Riku replica. The real Riku won out, and the replica seemingly vanished.
Ambigious as usual in KH.
The only thing I ever remember talking about "death" as a concept at all was one of the Secret Ansem Reports in KH 2 where DiZ explicitly speaks about "death" being only an effect of the body when it gets either separated from the soul (the lifeforce battery) or the soul itself expires ("running out of fuel").
Memories which are also a core part of the heart are stated to be
immortal since Chain of Memories so what exactly this "Permadeath" is and if it exists in this fantasy universe can't be said for sure.
Of course, Xehanort in BBS mentions "Death" in conjunction with the letter Chi and "Endings", but there isn't any elaboration on what exactly it means.
I see what you're saying. Right, so Vanitas is a part of Ventus' heart, well, the dark part. So when Ventus' heart puts itself back together that piece of darkness which is Vanitas will always linger, therefore, he's really never gone. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but Ventus' heart is still healing within Sora right? So on top of being the darkness from Ventus' heart, Vanitas as an entity also resides within Sora.
This means there's a couple different ways Vanitas can reappear, physically; through the means of residing within Sora as part as Ventus' heart, or once Ventus' heart is whole again.
Not exactly.
Vanitas was
created from a part of Ventus' heart but that doesn't mean they need to be part of each other again.
When a heart is split both "parts" can be nurtured and grow into a heart of its own, it was only hinted at in BBS itself but with information from DDD, the reports and some of the Ultimania interviews this can be deduced easily.
For a metaphorical comparison one may look at
Cell division.
Ventus' heart
was "healed"/became whole during the four years between Vanitas' creation and the beginning of BBS proper, he doesn't need Vanitas to be complete and neither does Vanitas need him. The second time his heart was fractured/injured (the wounds his heart is recuperating from within Sora after BBS) is due to the destruction of the proto-X-blade his heart was forcibly made a part of.
As I already pointed out in my previous post it is not confirmed where Vanitas as an entity resides in present time.
To portray that he resides within Sora as a fact when it is only one possibility out of several is spreading misinformation that isn't actual canon.
See, I think that's what we were talking about though, Vanitas was part of Ventus's heart, and they still have a connection, but they have separate hearts now. They're each their own person.
I do think Vanitas's heart can reside within Sora's, but it's not part of Ventus's anymore. Or... shouldn't be, anyway.
Anyway, yeah, I don't think time travel would be required for Vanitas to come back. It's a possibility, but it's not necessary.
Though to play with that idea for a moment, would he be able to create the X-blade with Sora? I wonder. Still there's also, how would he react to seeing Sora's face in the first place?
Correct, Vanitas
originates from Ventus, but he isn't strictly a part of him anymore since the part of Ven's heart he was created from developed into its own thing just like Ven's heart formed back into shape without Vanitas being part of the assembly.
Not considering that intersecting just two (pure) hearts is a botched method that doesn't result in a full X-blade anyways (Xehanort tried to use a shortcut and diddlyed up), I'd say no because Sora has a normal heart with Darkness in it. Considering Aqua as a backup/spare was already an iffy thing despite her having an "almost" pure light heart due to Eraqus' upbringing I'd say there would be at most another "prototype" created and then taking into account that Ventus' passive resistance already made the thing even more brittle I doubt that anything of much use would come about if Vanitas would really try to forge it with Sora.
Going by his DDD cameo, Vanitas apparently doesn't give much of a diddly about Sora in general.
