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Who do you think was the first Nobody?



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So, who is it?


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In the TGS trailer, it shows Even and Ienzo laying dead in the Control Room with Braig being the 3rd visible victim. Who do you think was the first one to be slain and who do you think was the first one to be turned into a Nobody?
 

Chuman

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Xemnas. He was the first Nobody. Some disagree that Master Xehanort had one that was the first, but officially, it's Xemnas.
 

Jadentheman

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Exactly it makes sense now. Xemnas attacked the apprentices because Xemnas is more Terra than MX so he attacked Braig and the others because they were working for Xehanort however, I guess his influence dies because that isn't the Xemnas we know
 

kupo1121

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Exactly it makes sense now. Xemnas attacked the apprentices because Xemnas is more Terra than MX so he attacked Braig and the others because they were working for Xehanort however, I guess his influence dies because that isn't the Xemnas we know

I don't Terra would attack an innocent child like Ienzo.
 

Odysseus

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I still don't even understand why stabbing them in the heart makes them Nobodies. I thought you had to lose your heart to darkness/the Heartless to be turned into one, and thus creating a Nobody. Sora turns into a Heartless with Riku's Dark Keyblade, but that's because that Keyblade was created from darkness. Why would releasing your heart with a Keyblade do the same? Master Xehanort does it to release his heart and possess Terra, but from the same logic, wouldn't he have instead turned into a Heartless and a Nobody before his heart could even reach Terra?

I'm feeling a bit of retcon. Unless they reveal later than Master Xehanort has his own Nobody, yet no Heartless. That'd actually be pretty cool.
 

Chuman

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I don't Terra would attack an innocent child like Ienzo.

Kingdom Hearts Player said:
I didn't think Terra would attack an innocent child like Sora.

Remember when The Lingering Will attacked Sora in Final Mix+? He was blinded by anger. You honestly don't think he would fuck up the guy that ruined him and his flunkies?
 

Kyarah

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I don't think the number in the Organization have something to do with when they got turned into Nobodies. It is more of a matter of when they joined the Org.

Xemnas found it, so he's number I. Seeing how Braid is his right hand man, he joined as soon as he could. Maybe....
 

Chuman

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I don't think the number in the Organization have something to do with when they got turned into Nobodies. It is more of a matter of when they joined the Org.

Xemnas found it, so he's number I. Seeing how Braid is his right hand man, he joined as soon as he could. Maybe....

Where exactly do you get this logic from? Several times, Xemnas has been refered to as the first Nobody.
 

maggosh

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I still don't even understand why stabbing them in the heart makes them Nobodies. I thought you had to lose your heart to darkness/the Heartless to be turned into one, and thus creating a Nobody.

If Master Xehanort's Keyblade can extract darkness from a heart, surely it can implant it. Enough for one to lose their heart in it.
 

Chuman

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If Master Xehanort's Keyblade can extract darkness from a heart, surely it can implant it. Enough for one to lose their heart in it.

That makes sense. But where did he get it? It's not like he can just purchase it from some damn Moogles.
 

Fractured_Heart628

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It's tough to say, but I'm still not fully convinced that Even or Ienzo were the first Nobodies. I still think it's Xehanort, because his Nobody, Xemnas is leader of the Organization.
 

Reagan Rayden

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There could have been Nobodies before Org XIII. The Mysterious Figure from BBS...
 

ROXAS_32

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It's tough to say, but I'm still not fully convinced that Even or Ienzo were the first Nobodies. I still think it's Xehanort, because his Nobody, Xemnas is leader of the Organization.

idk just because he was the leader of the org doesnt mean he was the first....
it just means that he is the baddest MF that you dont wanna mess with
Ansem Report 2
It is my duty to expose what this darkness really is. I shall conduct the following experiments:
Extract the darkness from a person's heart.
Cultivate darkness in a pure heart.
Both suppress and amplify the darkness within.
The experiments caused the test subject's heart to collapse, including those of the most stalwart. How fragile our hearts are! My treatment produced no signs of recovery. I confined those who had completely lost their hearts beneath the castle.
Some time later, I went below and was greeted by the strangest sight. Creatures that seemed born of darkness...What are they? Are they truly sentient beings? Could they be the shadows of those who lost their hearts in my experiments?
yeah he definitely cooked up some thing while still being able to use the keyblade...
 
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EDIT:
In regards to the op, it does look like Even and Ienzo (and Braig soon after) lost their hearts there and would thus be Nobodies before Xehanort.

But has anyone given thought to the possibility that the one holding the keyblade there is not Apprentice Xehanort, but Xemnas? Say he released his heart, became a Nobody, and returned to Radiant Garden.

I know you might say, "If that's the case, how come Braig recognized him as Apprentice Xehanort?"
But we don't know what Xemnas initially looked like when he was created. For all we know, he, like the others, looked just like his somebody, AX. Xemnas arguably looks like an older version of Apprentice Xehanort/Terranort, so I'd consider the possibility that he did age over ten years, just like Namine. (Really, that's perfect when you think about it, Nomura said Xemnas looks to be about thirty, and yet AX looks significantly younger. This would place him at about twenty, which is roughly the age I'd imagine Terra to have been.)

And I guess that would also put him in the same group as Zexion too. Since he starts out as young Ienzo, judging from this, looks like he ages (I don't buy into that illusion stuff because it makes no sense and there is no justification). Pretty curious.

Anyway, as for why Xemnas has the keyblade, remember, Nomura said he may have been able to use it, but chose not to. I still believe that he may have a heart. Whose, and how much, I'm not going to bother with, because I've said my ideas on the matter plenty of times before.


I still don't even understand why stabbing them in the heart makes them Nobodies. I thought you had to lose your heart to darkness/the Heartless to be turned into one, and thus creating a Nobody.

The only prerequisite is that you lose your heart (a strong heart) and the body/soul are left behind. How you lose your heart doesn't matter.

Why would releasing your heart with a Keyblade do the same? Master Xehanort does it to release his heart and possess Terra, but from the same logic, wouldn't he have instead turned into a Heartless and a Nobody before his heart could even reach Terra?

It's not like the heart has to instantaneously be consumed by a Heartless the moment it is released. This is especially true for MX I'd imagine, since he can control the darkness so well. He had plenty enough time for his heart to find a new vessel in Terra.

As for whether or not he created a Nobody, that's debatable. Nomura has brought up the potential, but it could just as well be that he didn't make a Nobody, simply because it's not as though a Nobody has to be created 100% of the time. I've entertained the idea of him creating a Nobody but at the same time I'm not really anticipating anything one way or the other.

If Master Xehanort's Keyblade can extract darkness from a heart, surely it can implant it. Enough for one to lose their heart in it.

No, a Keyblade definitely cannot do that.
If that were the case, he could have simply infused a great deal of darkness in Terra and possessed him on the spot. Hell, he could have done it to just about anyone.

Terra had to choose and accept the darkness on his own. A keyblade can only unlock what is already in the heart.
 
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Odysseus

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The only prerequisite is that you lose your heart (a strong heart) and the body/soul are left behind. How you lose your heart doesn't matter.

Is that actually stated somewhere? The only in-game (I haven't read many reports) explanation for where Nobodies come from is by Yen Sid, who explicitly says it is when you become a Heartless and leave behind a shell.

As for instantly becoming a Heartless when you lose your heart: that's what seemed to happen to Sora. He released it in a very similar manner to Master Xehanort, and instantly it was gone. Sora's Heartless appeared soon after. Not to mention the civilian in Traverse Town who lost his heart and instantly became a Soldier Heartless.
 
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JULIO VP

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It was probably a rat :/
or a DOLPHIN :O
but if by person it would probably be Even
 
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Is that actually stated somewhere? The only in-game (I haven't read many reports) explanation for where Nobodies come from is by Yen Sid, who explicitly says it is when you become a Heartless and leave behind a shell.

As for instantly becoming a Heartless when you lose your heart: that's what seemed to happen to Sora. He released it in a very similar manner to Master Xehanort, and instantly it was gone. Sora's Heartless appeared soon after. Not to mention the civilian in Traverse Town who lost his heart and instantly became a Soldier Heartless.

Ansem Report 13 said:
When the heart casts away the body, where does the body go?
Heart and soul are separate, and the soul remains in the body. But can we assume that the remaining body and soul perish?

Secret Ansem Report 4 said:
Three elements combine to create a life: a heart, a soul, and a body.
But what of the soul and body left behind when the heart is lost?
When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death, but what about when the heart leaves?
A being does not perish when its heart leaves its body. The heart alone disappears into the darkness.

Notice how neither of these emphasize the creation of a Heartless. It's more about the heart leaving its vessel than anything else.
The reason why one can say that a Nobody is created when a strong hearted individual becomes a Heartless is that, for the most part, becoming a Heartless and losing one's heart are synonymous. AtW even calls a Heartless "proof of a lost heart." But even if the Heartless are proof of a lost heart, is that the only way of actually losing one? Creating a Heartless is the natural result of losing one's heart. But there is a very important distinction to be made. While creating a Heartless is the norm, as is usually the case, there are exceptions.

Naminé is a Nobody, created when a young girl's heart left her body.
Yet she has no corresponding Heartless.

Notice how AtW believes here that Namine was created without a Heartless. Even if this earlier hypothesis is shown to be false, it proves that, in his definition of the creation of a Nobody, AtW does not consider the creation of a Heartless a necessity. As I said, there are exceptions, such as when the heart travels to another vessel.

The real reason why Namine was not created when Kairi's heart was first released is because Kairi's vessel stayed in the RoL. She didn't have the raw material to be created.
 

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In order for a nobody to be created, the heart must leave the body and soul alone. It does not matter what happens to the heart or what its condition (heartless or escapes to another vessel). As long as the body and soul are left alone, they will become a nobody.
 

Chuman

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In order for a nobody to be created, the heart must leave the body and soul alone. It does not matter what happens to the heart or what its condition (heartless or escapes to another vessel). As long as the body and soul are left alone, they will become a nobody.

Hm.... didn't Eraqus' heart leave his body for Terra? Or does it not count because Eraqus died?
 
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