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Why Ansem SoD and Xemnas are in 3D



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Just a quickie.

Ansem SoD, dead. Xemnas, dead. And they're in a post-KH2 game.
What gives?

I think people get the impression that they're just illusions/memories, but it may be deeper than that.
So for whatever shitty reason Nomura comes up with (be it dreams, memories, time travel, whatever), Sora and Riku are back in their KH1 forms.

But who is to say that these two are the only ones who reverted?
What if the newly revived Xehanort underwent a change as well?

Now, if Sora and Riku became their KH1 selves, what would Xehanort's KH1 self be? Well, not self, selves. He was split into two as Ansem SoD and Xemnas.

Hence, he's in a unique position where he can appear as either. That's why we see Ansem SoD with a transparent Xemnas floating behind him, and vice versa. Because the two parts are now one, but can appear separate due to the circumstances.

This would also strongly suggest that this Xehanort (with the ability to "shape shift," I'd guess you'd say), is the antagonist of (or at least connected to) Birth by Sleep Volume II.
Notice at the end of the BbSFM secret ending, we see Xehanort flash as Ansem SoD and Xemnas.

On a side note, I've already stated why I believe the newly recombined Xehanort will appear like Young MX. Not going to dig it up now because I'm lazy.
 

Frozura

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I remember reading something about Ansem SoD being the heartless yet having a body/being a whole self, basically being MX (but his appearance has changed due to whatever reason etc), and Xemnas having a heart and being HIS whole self but being a nobody at the same time o_O basically MX's heart split from when Xehanort split, and so did Terra's, who kept the body (and terra's heart). Idk something like that. I asked a while ago too why they didn't just get together and become whole, and someone said partly that they didn't like each other or something and that they were 2 different beings with different agendas (or the same).

If anything I DO NOT think they will go back together, but I do believe MX will be back in some weird rejuvenated way, and so will Terra, maybe looking a bit older (and looking a lot like how terranort did), MX heart wouldn't go merge into Terra to make Xehanort again..I just don't see that happening. That's why I don't think Xemnas wanted to do the KH thing to become whole as he already was whole, he just wanted Ven. I think it's been proven to an extent that the whole memory loss thing was faked.

On the actual topic though, again I disagree with the whole shapeshifting thingy. Unless in some weird way they were FORCED to merge by some weird 'kingdom hearts universe law' (which they would end up loathing too....), then I think they would be separate beings, with young MX (maybe) being the antagonist. This would probably continue on to KH3....
 

NoiseHERO

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I thought everything was gonna be relating to this whole dream dropping concept...which is probably what you'll be learning in that mastery test, when xemnes and ansem's heartless pops up as part of the test. (in what's probably an early part of the game seeing has how traverse town is always the second stage indicating it's early in the game, like all other screen caps and previews are.)

Then the rest of the game , I guess you're using those new powers and skills you learned from the test, and as nomura said in interviews it being somehow related to KH3 gameplay...

So yeah, They're probably not a big deal, kind of like how riku turning into Ansem SOD wasn't that big of a deal...
 
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I remember reading something about Ansem SoD being the heartless yet having a body/being a whole self, basically being MX (but his appearance has changed due to whatever reason etc), and Xemnas having a heart and being HIS whole self but being a nobody at the same time o_O basically MX's heart split from when Xehanort split, and so did Terra's, who kept the body (and terra's heart). Idk something like that. I asked a while ago too why they didn't just get together and become whole, and someone said partly that they didn't like each other or something and that they were 2 different beings with different agendas (or the same).

I don't understand what you're getting at.

Unless in some weird way they were FORCED to merge by some weird 'kingdom hearts universe law'

...


4:42-5:32
Pretty much spelled out for you.

(which they would end up loathing too....)

No? Because they're dead?

I thought everything was gonna be relating to this whole dream dropping concept...which is probably what you'll be learning in that mastery test,

Well you're wrong.
Nomura said only part of the game has to do with the MoM. So it's very unlikely that the dream shit has anything to do with it. For example, why would it be a part of Riku's Mark of Mastery if he's using the Soul Eater? It's to prove mastery of a KEYBLADE. Just as importantly, lines in the trailer which mimic KH1 dialogue indicate that Sora and Riku may have "reset." Why would that be a part of a Mark of Mastery exam if the point of the MoM is to test everything you LEARNED?

(in what's probably an early part of the game seeing has how traverse town is always the second stage indicating it's early in the game, like all other screen caps and previews are.)

We can't say what part of the game that's going to take place because it's likely Nomura placed it there since none of the new worlds were finished at the time. But it's a stupid argument anyway because our main antagonist usually shows up early anyway (Ansem SoD on DI, Xemnas in HB).


So yeah, They're probably not a big deal, kind of like how riku turning into Ansem SOD wasn't that big of a deal...

How was that not a big deal?
 

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Wait Grass, are you saying that those 2 may actually really be there? And they are not just illusions in part of the exam? I wonder how that is going to be explained.
 

NoiseHERO

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I don't understand what you're getting at.



...


4:42-5:32
Pretty much spelled out for you.



No? Because they're dead?



Well you're wrong.
Nomura said only part of the game has to do with the MoM. So it's very unlikely that the dream shit has anything to do with it. For example, why would it be a part of Riku's Mark of Mastery if he's using the Soul Eater? It's to prove mastery of a KEYBLADE. Just as importantly, lines in the trailer which mimic KH1 dialogue indicate that Sora and Riku may have "reset." Why would that be a part of a Mark of Mastery exam if the point of the MoM is to test everything you LEARNED?



We can't say what part of the game that's going to take place because it's likely Nomura placed it there since none of the new worlds were finished at the time. But it's a stupid argument anyway because our main antagonist usually shows up early anyway (Ansem SoD on DI, Xemnas in HB).




How was that not a big deal?

They're taking on dream illusions of their old selves during the test, common sense should be able to explain that easily. and I know the mark of mastery test is only part of the game. Since the test new to the series JUST like this game's gameplay it's obvious that it would take place at the start of the game. Not to mention that if they're changing their outfits later in the game then it should be obvious that the old outfits are coming first.

I'm pretty sure that's all the reasonable explanations why sora and riku are ocarina of time style appearance changing...and Riku's using his dark weapon probably just because of his appearance in the test.

and it's not so much that Riku taking Ansem SOD's from in the past wasn't a big deal, but that fact that ansem SOD was recycled for it in general is what made that part not such a big deal...he could've turned into anything for his darkness issues if tetsuya wanted. But everything like this saves money and time.

I'm just looking at it from a story writing/planning perspective, not a crazed fanboy think too deep into a badly written story perspective.
 
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They're taking on dream illusions of their old selves during the test, common sense should be able to explain that easily.

Hahaha. Common sense?
Yeah, please tell me how Sora and Riku reverting to their KH1 selves is COMMON SENSE.
You're one of those people that thinks Yen Sid changed them as a part of the test, aren't you?

Give me a reason why that makes ANY sense, let alone common sense. It's only common sense if you don't think about it.

and I know the mark of mastery test is only part of the game. Since the test new to the series JUST like this game's gameplay it's obvious that it would take place at the start of the game.

Logical failure. IT'S NEW TO DA SERIES IT HAS TO BE AT THE BEGINNING.
Or... not?
Who's to say, for example, that Yen Sid doesn't have to delay the MoM because something happens.

and Riku's using his dark weapon probably just because of his appearance in the test.

Yeah, his "dark weapon"? The Soul Eater? That's not a keyblade.
And Riku's supposed to be taking an exam over his mastership of the keyblade.
Connect the dots, I know you can.

I'm just looking at it from a story writing/planning perspective, not a crazed fanboy think too deep into a badly written story perspective.

187512_o.gif


Q: Previously, we were told that this story depicts Sora and Riku's Mark of Mastery Exam?

Nomura: It's not that the whole game covers the Exam, but there is a part that has the Exam.

So if the MoM is only a part of the game, and Ansem SoD/Xemnas are just dream illusions, where is the real antagonist, especially for the majority of the game? What are the stakes if it's just an illusion?

Yeah, writing/planning perspective, great job, keep it up.
 

NoiseHERO

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Hahaha. Common sense?
Yeah, please tell me how Sora and Riku reverting to their KH1 selves is COMMON SENSE.
You're one of those people that thinks Yen Sid changed them as a part of the test, aren't you?

Give me a reason why that makes ANY sense, let alone common sense. It's only common sense if you don't think about it.



Logical failure. IT'S NEW TO DA SERIES IT HAS TO BE AT THE BEGINNING.
Or... not?
Who's to say, for example, that Yen Sid doesn't have to delay the MoM because something happens.



Yeah, his "dark weapon"? The Soul Eater? That's not a keyblade.
And Riku's supposed to be taking an exam over his mastership of the keyblade.
Connect the dots, I know you can.



187512_o.gif




So if the MoM is only a part of the game, and Ansem SoD/Xemnas are just dream illusions, where is the real antagonist, especially for the majority of the game? What are the stakes if it's just an illusion?

Yeah, writing/planning perspective, great job, keep it up.

I don't see how yen sid or whoever, changing their complete visual appearance just for a TEST is not making sense to you..... If anything shouldn't make sense to you, it's them having their old outfits to begin with. and yes if everything during the test is only a dream it shouldn't matter what weapon they're using, hell riku's old weapon specifically, it's probably explained when the actual game comes out.

The main antagonist of the series, that's something obviously none of us would know, I'm speculating on what we DO know. It COULD be possible that they've been cheaply revived as main villians, or they could be weak first boss villians just for the story during the test, who knows but I get the feeling that their importance isn't all that final-boss like if we're already seeing them in videos. Ansem SOD and Xemnas being revived makes a thousands times less sense than everything being a dream-test unless it's part of xehanorts revival idea that his two forms come back to life first...which already makes a stupid concept dumber.

And yes if a GAMEPLAY CONCEPT is new, it's usually the first thing thrown in your face in some way shape or form, the test probably being that shape or form (As I'm explaining for the third time.)

But yes. Logic. Someone needs to play more Ace attorney games to learn how evidence and common sense works...

Regardless, arguing about what's right and wrong or whats going to happen is obvious controversial in a game that we're not making so yeah...you can calm down now... Because you're sounding worked up... you don't have to bare your fangs at me over a little theory of a game that's not released yet...
 
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I don't see how yen sid or whoever, changing their complete visual appearance just for a TEST is not making sense to you.....

Haha. The very reason why it doesn't make sense is right there. You said it.
"Changing their complete visual appearance just for a TEST"

If anything shouldn't make sense to you, it's them having their old outfits to begin with.
No, not really, it'll be some bullshit excuse about dreams or memories or something, but it'll at least work logically within the context of the story. Unlike the idea of Yen Sid changing Sora and Riku into their KH1 forms for their MoM, which not only makes no sense, but is also counter intuitive.

A test is supposed to be about what you've learned. Reverting you back to the way you were before you learned anything isn't any way to test you. It would serve no purpose. For example, what good would it do if, say, I learned about physics for a year, and then for my final examination, my teacher warped me back into the way I was at the beginning of the year?

and yes if everything during the test is only a dream it shouldn't matter what weapon they're using, hell riku's old weapon specifically, it's probably explained when the actual game comes out.

If it doesn't matter what they're using, it shouldn't matter what they're doing. So you're saying the Mark of Mastery doesn't matter.
You're right, if I'm going to get my driver's license, I shouldn't have to use a car (maybe a boat).

who knows but I get the feeling that their importance isn't all that final-boss like if we're already seeing them in videos.

Never said anything about them being the final boss.

Ansem SOD and Xemnas being revived makes a thousands times less sense than everything being a dream-test unless it's part of xehanorts revival idea that his two forms come back to life first...which already makes a stupid concept dumber.

And I never said anything about Ansem SoD and Xemnas being revived. You're not understanding my theory, despite how it was stated in basic terms.
I'll say it again.

What I'm suggesting is that, like Sora and Riku, Xehanort (the newly combined one that was formed after Xemnas and Ansem SoD were destroyed), underwent a physical change. He can appear as his KH1 self. However, because he was split into two at the time of KH1, he can take on EITHER of these forms. I'm NOT saying Xemnas or Ansem SoD has returned, just that Xehanort can take on their APPEARANCES.

And yes if a GAMEPLAY CONCEPT is new, it's usually the first thing thrown in your face in some way shape or form, the test probably being that shape or form (As I'm explaining for the third time.)

Except the Mark of Mastery is a plot device, not a gameplay concept hurrrddurrrrrrr.

But yes. Logic. Someone needs to play more Ace attorney games to learn how evidence and common sense works...

This is so unintentionally hilarious I may just end up throwing it in my sig.

Regardless, arguing about what's right and wrong or whats going to happen is obvious controversial in a game that we're not making so yeah...you can calm down now... Because you're sounding worked up... you don't have to bare your fangs at me over a little theory of a game that's not released yet...

Welcome to KHInsider, enjoy your stay.
 

NoiseHERO

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In a magic test in a disney/square GAME while factoring Tetsuya's BS I'm pretty damn sure you're better off going with "it doesn't matter" in terms of their weapons and old forms. You may as well be spamming about data sora not being kh2 just because he'd seem weaker for the job he was designed. ANYTHING could happen including gallons of Tetsuya Nomura plot hole/plot device creating BS. Learn to badly write fantasy stories.

You never said "final boss" you just said main antagonist which is nearly the same in most circumstances.

A plot device is EASILY functional on a gameplay concept. If anything the gameplay concept itself is CONSTANTLY hinted at to be a plot device.

Unintentionally hilarious? if it's funny and it came from me, trust me, it was intentional. *coolface*

edit: and thank you for the welcome... even though it kind of feels like I've been put into a middle school class out of punishment.
 
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In a magic test in a disney/square GAME while factoring Tetsuya's BS I'm pretty damn sure you're better off going with "it doesn't matter" in terms of their weapons and old forms.

You're basically saying here, "It doesn't make sense but just go with it" when there's a simpler and much more logical explanation. That the form change has nothing to do with their MoM. A lot more sound than your cop out.

You may as well be spamming about data sora not being kh2 just because he'd seem weaker for the job he was designed.

Or, you know, it was because they were looking at the KH1 journal, not the KH2 one, derp.

ANYTHING could happen including gallons of Tetsuya Nomura plot hole/plot device creating BS.

I didn't know plot holes were measured in gallons.
Also.
"Anything can happen."

Congrats, you've used the two most common KH cop outs.
1. Anything can happen.
2. It's a Square/Disney game, it's not supposed to make sense.

Learn to badly write fantasy stories.

I don't want to take pointers from you, much obliged.

A plot device is EASILY functional on a gameplay concept. If anything the gameplay concept itself is CONSTANTLY hinted at to be a plot device.

Massive derping here. Your response makes no sense.
All I was saying was that the Mark of Mastery doesn't have to necessarily be at the beginning of the game, and now you're talking about it as if it were a "gameplay concept" that has to be introduced at the beginning. lolwut

Unintentionally hilarious? if it's funny and it came from me, trust me, it was intentional. *coolface*

^This too is unintentionally hilarious and therefore ironic too.

edit: and thank you for the welcome... even though it kind of feels like I've been put into a middle school class out of punishment.

Give me your lunch money.
 

Radar

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So the forms of A.SoD and Xemnas may actually be the present Xehanort, hmmm.. Quite interesting.
 

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Spoiler: Famitsu Interview
We were surprised when Yen Sid said, “Supposing Xehanort isn’t alone?”

Nomura: If you look back in the past titles, weren’t you always fighting some form of Xehanort? As Ansem, as Xemnas, and as Master Xehanort, his form is different in each time and there is a reason why he appears differently each time. Don’t you suppose that it’s going to influence the future?


this is why all the pieces are coming together
 

NoiseHERO

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No I'm saying you're thinking too much into smaller details that'll just make sense later.

Bringing up a reason on data sora, of which I merely used as an an example only further proves my point.

Yes, plotholes are measured in gallons, Go back to school.

2 most common KH cop outs? you mean in your KH fanboy argument battle field? Now THATS unintentionally funny.

Again arguing on unconfirmed things that can't even be labeled as fact with stubborn theoretical thinking based on weak evidence for a game that doesn't exist yet...
/facepalm

I'll just wait till the game comes out.
 

Luap

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This would actually be a pretty great idea.
I like this better than the idea they are fake copies made from dreams/memories/data/etc, or that they both somehow survived.
If this is true, I just wonder how these characters are going to be reverted to their KH1 selves. Possibly through the work of the new Xehanort? Maybe he does this so that he can split himself into Xemnas and Ansem SOD, so that he can go after Sora and Riku seperately.

Again arguing on unconfirmed things that can't even be labeled as fact with stubborn theoretical thinking based on weak evidence for a game that doesn't exist yet...
/facepalm

I'll just wait till the game comes out.

Doesn't this ruin the whole point of theorizing? Or have you missed the point of theorizing? You cna theorize about a confirmed fact, because it's confirmed. This is like saying no one should have theorized about Birth By Sleep [the secret ending] when KH2FM+ came out.

And if you are just going to wait till "the game comes out" to learn or guess anything then why are you browsing the "Future of Kingdom Hearts" section.
 
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No I'm saying you're thinking too much into smaller details that'll just make sense later.

So, let me get this straight.
You're rebutting my argument.
With your own argument.
Which doesn't make sense.
But you claim it will make sense later.

I'll take your word for it.

Bringing up a reason on data sora, of which I merely used as an an example only further proves my point.

... What?

Yes, plotholes are measured in gallons, Go back to school.

I thought we were in middle school.

2 most common KH cop outs? you mean in your KH fanboy argument battle field? Now THATS unintentionally funny.

Hey man.
On the KH fanboy argument battlefield, you have to remember two things. Anything can happen. And it's not supposed to make sense.

Again arguing on unconfirmed things that can't even be labeled as fact with stubborn theoretical thinking based on weak evidence for a game that doesn't exist yet...
/facepalm

ie what you were doing when you said it's "common sense" that Sora and Riku were taking their MoM's and Ansem SoD and Xemnas were just illusions.

I'll just wait till the game comes out.

Please do.
 

NoiseHERO

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This would actually be a pretty great idea.
I like this better than the idea they are fake copies made from dreams/memories/data/etc, or that they both somehow survived.
If this is true, I just wonder how these characters are going to be reverted to their KH1 selves. Possibly through the work of the new Xehanort? Maybe he does this so that he can split himself into Xemnas and Ansem SOD, so that he can go after Sora and Riku seperately.



Doesn't this ruin the whole point of theorizing? Or have you missed the point of theorizing? You cna theorize about a confirmed fact, because it's confirmed. This is like saying no one should have theorized about Birth By Sleep [the secret ending] when KH2FM+ came out.

And if you are just going to wait till "the game comes out" to learn or guess anything then why are you browsing the "Future of Kingdom Hearts" section.

I kind of figured people would overreact WAY less on what's right and wrong when they can't read the future, but apparently I was wrong, so Instead of interesting discussion it's just childish bickering, slathered with a 14 year old's last year 4chan sense humor thrown into the debate. I'm obviously new here, so I had to get the impression that I'm wasting my time before landing on the conclusion that theorizing here would be stupid. n_n

@Grass: I'm not killing your babies by disagreeing with your theories, (O-or ami ?!) really now, calm ya face

and middle school isn't real school.
 

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Hahaha. Common sense?
Yeah, please tell me how Sora and Riku reverting to their KH1 selves is COMMON SENSE.
You're one of those people that thinks Yen Sid changed them as a part of the test, aren't you?

Give me a reason why that makes ANY sense, let alone common sense. It's only common sense if you don't think about it.



Logical failure. IT'S NEW TO DA SERIES IT HAS TO BE AT THE BEGINNING.
Or... not?
Who's to say, for example, that Yen Sid doesn't have to delay the MoM because something happens.



Yeah, his "dark weapon"? The Soul Eater? That's not a keyblade.
And Riku's supposed to be taking an exam over his mastership of the keyblade.
Connect the dots, I know you can.



187512_o.gif




So if the MoM is only a part of the game, and Ansem SoD/Xemnas are just dream illusions, where is the real antagonist, especially for the majority of the game? What are the stakes if it's just an illusion?

Yeah, writing/planning perspective, great job, keep it up.

Because this entire post, I'd like to add a bit of my own thought in here. What if all of that happened because something went wrong DURING the MoM Exam? I know that Yen Sid is this almightly wizard/former Keyblade Master, but that doesn't mean he can't screw things up once an awhile. After all, Yen Sid has to have some flaws once in a blue moon since he still is human.
 
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