Why are people saying he was redeemed? (Spoilers)

[KeybladeKnightQ]

It seems a good majority of the people processed KH3 ending as

Spoiler Show

Master Xehanort being redeemed, which I’m not following, how was he redeemed? Just cause Eraqus seemed okay with everything he did. Cause he was smiling? Cause he gave Sora the X-blade? None of that had anything to do with any redemption to his character.

Not once did he feel regret or apologize for anything he did he merely accepted his defeat when it was clear he lost. He never agreed with Sora after he called him out he just compared him to Eraqus. Nor does anyone feel sorrow or forgive Xehanort after he passes. I agree that Xehnaort shouldn’t be redeemed as people claim I’m just saying he clearly wasn’t. He went out on his own terms.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Re: Why are people saying Xehanort was redeemed?

For a lot of fans, anything less than dancing on his charred corpse is unacceptable.

I wouldn't at all say he was redeemed, but when considering all that he's done, Xehanort was basically given a slap on the wrist.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Re: Why are people saying Xehanort was redeemed?

I'd put some spoiler tags here and change the title to something more general.

As for the topic itself:

Spoiler Show

I'm not sure where people get that from either.

No one actually forgives Xehanort outright and from what I've gathered no one actually looks friendly or sympathetic towards him. When Terra moves to let Eraqus out of him to speak I think Ven might even have thrown Xehanort his famous "angry look".

Eraqus also isn't "okay" with everything Xehanort did, on the contrary, he seems to be tired and besides sternly demanding to hand over the X-blade he urges Xehanort to finally stop and admit he lost, something that according to his younger self Xehanort never did before.

It means all Eraqus wants is no more suffering coming from Xehanort, it doesn't automatically involve forgiving all the shit he has pulled throughout the series.

This is also why he says it is not too late for Sora & his friends but for Xehanort and himself it is. Eraqus knows he did some fucked up shit too hence why he apologizes to each of his students and decides to move on to the afterlife instead of returning.

Eraqus thinks that Xehanort as well as himself no longer deserve to be among the people they both hurt so much to different degrees and to "let it go" as cliché as that may sound.
Xehanort realizes this as well and that's why he hands over the X-blade and decides to leave together with Eraqus.

That isn't redemption so much as realizing you fucked up so much that the only sensible thing you can still do is stop and remove yourself from the equation.

 

[VoidGear.]

Spoiler Show

For me, it's like Fudge says:
In comparison to what he did, giving him the semi-peaceful "let's go, old friend" - "Ok *smile*" treatment is simply...unnerving. It goes in the same direction as Riku telling Ansem SoD "I'll somehow miss you", which sent an icy cold shiver of disgust down my spine.
I'm not saying he should've pitifully choked on his last breath, but after rushing through bringing all the characters back, it just didn't feel very conclusive to suddenly allow him such a peaceful ending after all the pain he's caused.
The term "redemption" might not be ideal, but since we also didn't really get a real conclusion to all the things he's done other than "everyone's reunited, yay, world is rosy and nice", it still kind of felt like that to me.
It ending with the chess game which left him standing in a rather positive, foolish, almost childish position...well, it didn't really help, tbh.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Spoiler Show

I have mixed feelings. I'm not sure whether I like or hate how he was handled.
On one hand, I didn't need him to be put on blazing trials and I've never had an emotional distaste for his character so that I'd clamor a terrible punishment on him. At times, it seems like this way of ending it, while plain, might've been the only viable one.
Love him or hate him, Master Xehanort isn't the kind of villain to disappear while screaming and slowly decomposing. At least it's how I see it.

On the other hand... it is a weird direction. I hoped for more of a confrontation between him and Sora, since them being antithesis to one another was such a big parallel. "I'm right" "No ur not" is basically what it ended up being. Sora had more memorable speeches with Saix. And yes, the whole thing with Eraqus seems an odd direction. By all means it can be likely as the bonds between them was hinted in BbS, but KH III made it look like Eraqus was the only way for Xehanort to realize his defeat, and that's odd considering Xehanort 86'd him with ease, not even spending a couple of words.
"What a sight", he said as Eraqus vanished. Even a hint of mockery.
Heh, I guess I should be glad Eraqus wasn't an ex-machina like I feared he was going to be.


All in all, I guess I'm more positive than negative on the way Xehanort ended. He wasn't redeemed, he simply left with dignity.
I know this is simply unacceptable to many fans, and I don't mean to disrespect their feelings, but for others (and possibly Nomura considering his statements on the villains) Xehanort was an imposing villain, and KH III is HIS game on some levels. It stands to reason he needed somewhat of a send-off.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Spoiler Show

I think people see it as a redemption simply because of how he explained his goals and such.

I personally think that him explaining his "true motivation" was actually him trying one last time to do his manipulation shtick before realizing that there's no worming his way outta this.

Aside from that I think what Sephiroth said hits the nail on the head

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Spoiler Show

I think people see it as a redemption simply because of how he explained his goals and such.

I personally think that him explaining his "true motivation" was actually him trying one last time to do his manipulation shtick before realizing that there's no worming his way outta this.

Aside from that I think what Sephiroth said hits the nail on the head

I spent a shameful amount of seconds thinking about Sephiroth's lines in KH II, wondering what they had to do with this.
I need to go to bed.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

I spent a shameful amount of seconds thinking about Sephiroth's lines in KH II, wondering what they had to do with this.
I need to go to bed.

[video=youtube;Q7jSgIQvVS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7jSgIQvVS0[/video]

 

[VoidGear.]

I spent a shameful amount of seconds thinking about Sephiroth's lines in KH II, wondering what they had to do with this.
I need to go to bed.

Ffff--- I'm laughing so much harder than should be physically allowed during this time of the night!! xD

 

[darknessofheart]

I think any arc with the grand villain not being shown burning in some type of literal or figurative flames will always be dividing. I was satisfied with Xehanort's demise because we basically saw five different versions of him getting their just desserts prior to the final battle and his expression as Sora, Donald, and Goody delivered the final blow was perfect in my opinion (almost as if he was saying to himself "you have got to be kidding me.").

After so many years of him being in control with careful planning and contingency upon contingency, it was so satisfying to see him at a loss for words and finally out of ideas. In Kingdom Hearts, everyone has some good in them, including Xehanort, which we only see when he was friends with Eraqus. That was seemingly the only time Xehanort was ever a genuinely good and carefree person. Seeing how Young Xehanort was also quite an evil punk before he left his childhood home, it seems fitting that a brother figure changed Xehanort for the better until his dark ambitions took over. Eraqus was the only family or friend Young Xehanort seemed to have or care about.

Eraqus passed on with his pupils mourning him while Xehanort was dying by himself until his only friend came to his aid. He was not redeemed; he simply accepted his defeat and realized it was not his destiny to lead. Had he lived and went about life with everyone else, that I would've had a problem with, but thankfully they did not go that route. He died as a result of his defeat and no one felt the need to push it any further because it wasn't worth it. Eraqus, not Xehanort, received the memoriam by Terra, Aqua, and Ventus, so I think they are just relieved he is finally gone and are more than happy to leave him as a bad memory.

 

[KeybladeKnightQ]

Spoiler Show

For me, it's like Fudge says:
In comparison to what he did, giving him the semi-peaceful "let's go, old friend" - "Ok *smile*" treatment is simply...unnerving. It goes in the same direction as Riku telling Ansem SoD "I'll somehow miss you", which sent an icy cold shiver of disgust down my spine.
I'm not saying he should've pitifully choked on his last breath, but after rushing through bringing all the characters back, it just didn't feel very conclusive to suddenly allow him such a peaceful ending after all the pain he's caused.
The term "redemption" might not be ideal, but since we also didn't really get a real conclusion to all the things he's done other than "everyone's reunited, yay, world is rosy and nice", it still kind of felt like that to me.
It ending with the chess game which left him standing in a rather positive, foolish, almost childish position...well, it didn't really help, tbh.

Spoiler Show

I understood where Riku was coming from when he said he’d miss him. Ansem has been a huge part of Riku’s life for the past 2 years. It’s because of him he was able to see the error in his ways after all he did in KH1, it’s cause of him that he was able to move on from his sins in KH1, it’s cause of him he was able to journey and develop into the young man he became. And it was cause of him that he was able to beat Roxas and restore Sora. Ansem served as an example for Riku of what he could have become had he continued on his original course but it was cause of Ansem severing as an example that he didn’t end up like him. Even if something or someone doesn’t have any good intentions or positives and mostly caused you nothing but pain, stress, and suffering it’s still natural to have some sad feeling or remorse when that thing/person that has been apart of your life for so long just leaves and never returns.

 

[Elysium]

Spoiler Show

I thought Vanitas' "ending" was the most bizarre, although Young Xehanort's crazy, bloodthirsty words as he was fading was strange to me? Funny how so many people thought Young Xehanort might betray the new Org. I didn't really feel anything when Old Xehanort was finally done; I've never had much reaction to that character.

 

[Recon]

Spoiler Show

I think people look at it the wrong way. Personally, I'm shocked MX doesn't put up a fight. He raises the X-blade and Eraqus more or less says "that's enough" and he's like "ok" like he just gives up and it's no big deal. It's pretty weak.

 

[Pokie]

Re: Why are people saying Xehanort was redeemed?

For a lot of fans, anything less than dancing on his charred corpse is unacceptable.

I wouldn't at all say he was redeemed, but when considering all that he's done, Xehanort was basically given a slap on the wrist.

I felt like Sora and group was ready to give him the " reason why you suck speech " and get ready to smack him down once and for good,

Spoiler Show

but then Square just pushed in and said "No, I like him !" and just excused everything he did, and left with him.

It reminds me of how Nomura said last year, that he said that he related more towards the villains and not towards Sora, and it so shows.

Spoiler Show

the murderer of Kairi gets a happy ending, but Sora doesn't.

 

[SerDuncan]

Spoiler Show

The problem for me is how they framed his ending, less so the fact that he didn't die in fire and brimstone. Think about other villains in Kingdom Hearts, and their finales. Marluxia, Xemnas, Ansem... they all have this triumphant feeling as Sora triumphs over darkness. In this one, it's like... Xehanort gives up. After all the terrible shit he's done, the evils he's wrought, he gets to just pull the "I wanted to see a world with no darkness!" despite essentially being made of darkness himself. Let alone the fact that it contradicts what he said in previous games, about having a balance of both light and darkness. I guess for me, I was just dissatisfied. Why is it that he gets the "old friend treatment" and gets to disappear into the light, but all these other, manipulated villains get the short end of the stick?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I spent a shameful amount of seconds thinking about Sephiroth's lines in KH II, wondering what they had to do with this.
I need to go to bed.

This is a good one, lol.

Spoiler Show

I think people look at it the wrong way. Personally, I'm shocked MX doesn't put up a fight. He raises the X-blade and Eraqus more or less says "that's enough" and he's like "ok" like he just gives up and it's no big deal. It's pretty weak.

Spoiler Show

Indeed, I too think people are interpreting way too much into it and seeing things hat aren't really there.
MX not putting up a fight might have to do with having no more contingency plans in store and when he thinks he gets the last laugh by insisting "it's too late" because he opened that darkened Kingdom Hearts which will ultimately swallow the worlds and force in the new one Riku, Terra and all the others show up and go "nope, while Sora battled you we all together closed that KH on the other side".

What I do agree with is that the whole thing seems a bit rushed along as Eraqus and Sora are essentially the only characters who actually talk to him (with Sora's speech literally calling him out and NOT forgiving anything). Those who arguably suffered the most under his actions just stand there and give a few disapproving stares but that's all there is.

This is a problem the whole finale marathon has though as apart from the touching "reunion scenes" the characters who were saved do not get any more meaningful focus anymore.
They're just standing in the background, no actual interactions anymore and the only thing hinting that they did more than just standing around is that one line from Lea/Axel talking about "hitting plot points".

I felt like Sora and group was ready to give him the " reason why you suck speech " and get ready to smack him down once and for good,

Spoiler Show

but then Square just pushed in and said "No, I like him !" and just excused everything he did, and left with him.

That's not really what's happening because Eraqus does not really excuse anything Xehanort did, I don't get from where you do get that impression. He ultimately orders Xehanort to finally stop causing more suffering and agrees that it is too late for both of them, meaning that the deeds they both did cannot be atoned for and the best resolution is for them both to move away and leave the other characters alone. Unlike Xehanort though, he does apologize to his students first.

 

[Zettaflare]

Didnt Nomura say he was sad about certain characters that we would never see again? I think he may have wanted that to come across in the game.

Xehanort wasn't the only one to go out with dignity. Most of the other seekers did as well. With the exception of Young Xehanort, Rikunort, and Terranort. . I dont know why but those scenes oddly moved me for some reason and perhaps that was what Nomura was aiming for.

 

[Face My Fears]

Spoiler Show

The revelation that Xehanort was doing this to actually bring back the light was outstanding to me. It actually made sense to me (albeit I wish I had more time to process it, instead of action packed fights, then some explanation, then more fighting). So in the moment, it was a bit much to process, but afterwards I thought about it and liked it.

I too was like DIE XEHANORT DIE, especially after the Kairi incident. But when Xehanort said that he was doing all of this to reset the worlds and bring the light back, it made me remember the quote from Kairi's grandma (who was probably referencing something from the UX days): "Even in the deepest darkness, there will always be a light to guide you." Xehanort dove into the deepest darkness looking for the light to guide him and he probably believed that what he was doing was the right course of action. This is very true to his manipulative character. He never listened to anyone else and always wanted to push beyond the boundaries set.

I don't really think of it as redemption, but more understanding of him as a villain. I just thought he was power hungry and didn't care who he hurt to achieve his power, but now I see him as a man who thought he was doing the world a service and only when his own ego was confronted and proven wrong (Sora defeating all of his plans), he finally realized the error of his ways. His ego prevented him from apologizing (staying true to character), but it was interesting to see Eraqus be the one to calm his soul and have him abandon any last struggle against Sora.

It was a bold choice for an end for a villain they could have easily had us just blow up with 7 keyblades aimed at him.

 

[darknessofheart]

Spoiler Show

The revelation that Xehanort was doing this to actually bring back the light was outstanding to me. It actually made sense to me (albeit I wish I had more time to process it, instead of action packed fights, then some explanation, then more fighting). So in the moment, it was a bit much to process, but afterwards I thought about it and liked it.

I too was like DIE XEHANORT DIE, especially after the Kairi incident. But when Xehanort said that he was doing all of this to reset the worlds and bring the light back, it made me remember the quote from Kairi's grandma (who was probably referencing something from the UX days): "Even in the deepest darkness, there will always be a light to guide you." Xehanort dove into the deepest darkness looking for the light to guide him and he probably believed that what he was doing was the right course of action. This is very true to his manipulative character. He never listened to anyone else and always wanted to push beyond the boundaries set.

I don't really think of it as redemption, but more understanding of him as a villain. I just thought he was power hungry and didn't care who he hurt to achieve his power, but now I see him as a man who thought he was doing the world a service and only when his own ego was confronted and proven wrong (Sora defeating all of his plans), he finally realized the error of his ways. His ego prevented him from apologizing (staying true to character), but it was interesting to see Eraqus be the one to calm his soul and have him abandon any last struggle against Sora.

It was a bold choice for an end for a villain they could have easily had us just blow up with 7 keyblades aimed at him.

In a way, I think Nomura got to have his cake and eat it too. There is a scene where all the Keyblade wielders strike Xehanort when he was in front of Kingdom Hearts (even he was surprised and seemed to be in pain) and then gets defeated by Sora, pierced by light and seemingly drops dead. That could've been the end of it, but then we get the satisfaction of hearing his disbelief and Sora actually leaving him speechless. The rest was just a nice exploration of his character.

 

[fantasy08]

I will never be okay with this retcon. MX has a laundry list of atrocities dating from BBS on down. The entire main and supporting cast are his victims as well as countless worlds. I mean my god pretty much ten minutes before his 'I'm really a good guy teehee' he pretty much 'kills' Kairi in front of everyone.He is literally the definition of a complete monster, and yet one of his victims, his best friend who he freaking murdered, is the mastermind behind his 'redemption' and they even go to 'heaven' together. GTFOOH!

If any antagonist can cross the moral event horizon as strongly as he has( he pretty much broke it to pieces in the first game let along the ones after), and they still get a happy ending then what is the point of any of this? It's bad enough a bunch of mythos breaks keep occurring,but let's add even more to the no stakes or consequences smorgasbord by making a monster get a happily ever after to. Basically this story is saying you can literally be the biggest sociopath in KH, and yet you will still get a kumbaya send off. NO.

Also I will always hate that Blackhole Sue Sora is the one who took him down instead of the three that had the strongest right to do so. Terra especially should have been the main one dragging his keyblade from Xehanort's ball sack to his skull. He doesn't even get to say anything to him either. It was some unforgivable bs.

12 years of atrocities in the name of.... light? Here's the thing though there was no darkness going buckwild in this series until Xehanort put it there. Just GTFO Nomura. GTFO.