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Spoilers ► Why are the mentors in Kingdom hearts so ineffectual?



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Guernsey

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It seems as though that Eraqus, Xehanort, Ansem, Yen Sid and recently Odin seem to be somewhat ineffectual in the series. Ansem and Yen Sid were wrong about the Nobodies being emotionless beings with no hearts. Eraqus jumped the gun in zeal to destroy the darkness. Master Xehanort was right about balance but wrong in how he approached it. Odin died before we knew what was going on. I wonder if Nomura is trying to say something with these characters? Or is this a small step in some larger plan?
 

Rydgea

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To the characters they mentored or to the series at large?

Off-hand Mickey seems to be the most capable with regards to his assistance throughout the series and his mentorship with Riku.
 

Chie

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Yes, they aren't good people.

Remember that all of these except Ansem are keyblade masters, and that the role of keyblade master, handed down repeatedly over the years, can be traced back to the MoM. This is the theme, imo.
 

Guernsey

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To the characters they mentored or to the series at large?

Off-hand Mickey seems to be the most capable with regards to his assistance throughout the series and his mentorship with Riku.

The latter. With the exception of Mickey, it seems like the mentor characters turn out to be wrong or misinformed.

Yes, they aren't good people.

Remember that all of these except Ansem are keyblade masters, and that the role of keyblade master, handed down repeatedly over the years, can be traced back to the MoM. This is the theme, imo.

Are you sure? You could had fooled me
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Mickey did a good job!

But I think the point is to show that the older generation sets the future generation up to fail based on either their manipulations or by their outdated values or by thinking they are doing the right thing—being older and wiser doesn’t mean infallible and that sometimes it is the simplicity of youth and having an open mind and heart that leads to better endings.

Or something.
 

palizinhas

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There's some level of being on purpose, but KH is also essentially a YA series, and those are always littered with useless adults - because if they were useful why would the teenagers be the ones saving the world?
 
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It seems as though that Eraqus, Xehanort, Ansem, Yen Sid and recently Odin seem to be somewhat ineffectual in the series. Ansem and Yen Sid were wrong about the Nobodies being emotionless beings with no hearts. Eraqus jumped the gun in zeal to destroy the darkness. Master Xehanort was right about balance but wrong in how he approached it. Odin died before we knew what was going on. I wonder if Nomura is trying to say something with these characters? Or is this a small step in some larger plan?
I agree with @palizinhas . Most Youth centered stories are about a young person dealing with the complexity of responsibility. So having your mentors be flawed helps storytelling.

It could be something Nomura wants to explore with the Foretellers. They end up rejecting the Master of Masters down the road.
 
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Elysium

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First thought I had at the thread title was to say Mickey was probably the best mentor in the series (although I think of him really as a mentor only because of Riku's Story in CoM, I suppose), but I see I was beat to it. Of course, there's always the plot hole--introduced by KH2, grrrr--of why he let Maleficent go on the rampage for ten years, but aside from that, he was the only "mentor" figure that actually got down to business and did some things. I don't mind Yensid as much as others. Still, I'm glad he did at least something in KH3.

Plus, unlike the others, Mickey admits when he's wrong or there's some acknowledgment of it onscreen. Like when he was telling SDG to go during the 1000 Heartless Battle, for example. I think the writers want Yensid to be seen as an "infallible" Wise Man figure, to the point having a scene of him recognizing his failure in regards to the Nobodies would never happen. With Eraqus, on the other hand, I think the player recognizing how he was a failure was the point from the moment that character's introduced.
 

Guernsey

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I guess you are right. I just wished it was handled a little better with Yen Sid. Yen Sid is wise but he should be wise enough to know when he is wrong.
 

TrinityXaos

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That is my one of my problems with the light Keyblade Masters in Kingdom Hearts III.

They are supposed to be powerful and competent. But, who gets things done in the main story? Sora.

RIku, Mickey, and Aqua deserved better in Kingdom Hearts III.
 

Launchpad

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I don't think they necessarily intend for Yen Sid to be as useless as he is-- I think Nomura intends his exposition and instructions to be seen as good tutelage.

I also don't believe that within the narrative, Keyblade Masters are meant to be actually worse than just regular old wielders, I just think Nomura really wasted a lot of time trying to subvert our expectations by, surprise, having Sora save the day even better than the MASTERS, wow!

I do think he tried to save these masters by giving them better feats in ReMind, but it is still this concept of training and teaching that's stopping the plot from moving how it once would. Kairi is desperate to see Sora again, she should leap into Quadratum without a thought for "training". Instead, she's obeying a limp chain of command that has only historifally failed. And since this frustrating development culminates once again with Yen Sid nodding in approval, you know it's not meant to convey the incompetence of the old guard. It's just a genuinely bad plot beat in a series of many.
 

Chie

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The bad roots of the system is certainly a theme in all of the prequels, at least.

But that's kind of a recurring inexplicable thing with KH recently, where the gap between the gacha cutscenes and the actual games is pretty vast. KH3 certainly doesn't drip with intentionality on its own at all, and I don't have a good explanation for this difference, it's kind of surreal.
 

WaltK

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Mickey did a good job!
Ehhhhhhhhh…



Regardless of Mickey's more epic/badass moments, I can't forgive how needlessly cryptic he always is, nor how he just neglected to bring up Aqua and her plight for long as he did.

Honestly, I'd have forgiven all of Mickey's sins if somebody, especially Aqua, gave him a much-deserved chewing out, or if Dark Aqua went all in on guilt-tripping him.
 

Zackarix

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Regardless of Mickey's more epic/badass moments, I can't forgive how needlessly cryptic he always is, nor how he just neglected to bring up Aqua and her plight for long as he did.

Honestly, I'd have forgiven all of Mickey's sins if somebody, especially Aqua, gave him a much-deserved chewing out, or if Dark Aqua went all in on guilt-tripping him.
Mickey is a great example of how a "less is more" character can start failing when promoted to a bigger role.

Mickey is KH1 is awesome and makes every moment of his limited screen time count. Mickey in CoM has a slightly bigger role, but at the end of the day is moral support for Riku.

But as the series has gone on Mickey's role has grown and he can no longer rely on offscreen awesomeness. But he's still not the main character so he doesn't get much opportunity for onscreen awesomeness. And as a mentor figure he's supposed to know Important Things but the things he's supposed to know about have increased and the excuses for why he didn't tell the rest of the cast are wearing thin.

Maybe Disney had the right idea when they restricted Mickey to a cameo in KH1.
 

Launchpad

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Mickey is a great example of how a "less is more" character can start failing when promoted to a bigger role.

Mickey is KH1 is awesome and makes every moment of his limited screen time count. Mickey in CoM has a slightly bigger role, but at the end of the day is moral support for Riku.

But as the series has gone on Mickey's role has grown and he can no longer rely on offscreen awesomeness. But he's still not the main character so he doesn't get much opportunity for onscreen awesomeness. And as a mentor figure he's supposed to know Important Things but the things he's supposed to know about have increased and the excuses for why he didn't tell the rest of the cast are wearing thin.

Maybe Disney had the right idea when they restricted Mickey to a cameo in KH1.
Mickey lost a lot of his coolness when he got downgraded from 'Mysterious Keyblade Wielder who works in the shadows' to 'Yen Sid's most loyal bitch'.
 

vaderskywalker

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Okay, I just realized that theyre no better than The Jedi from the prequels, theyre both terrible at theyre jobs.🤣
 
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