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Why did KH2 suck to everyone??



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Samhain

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Xehanort's Heartless wasn't a heartless shadow or whatever

He was an existence of a heart
what sora was from the end of KH1 after he turned into a heartless - beginning of KH2 before he forms back with Roxas
 

Lonbilly

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Xehanort's Heartless wasn't a heartless shadow or whatever

He was an existence of a heart
what sora was from the end of KH1 after he turned into a heartless - beginning of KH2 before he forms back with Roxas

While he had Riku's body, sure. But before that? We don't know for sure if he had been truly human or had been in the form of a coherent Heartless, do we? Otherwise he wouldn't have needed a body.

Hell, the only reason Sora didn't need to possess anyone for a body is because Kairi made him a new one, basically.
 

Samhain

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While he had Riku's body, sure. But before that? We don't know for sure if he had been truly human or had been in the form of a coherent Heartless, do we? Otherwise he wouldn't have needed a body.

no.
Xehanort was always an existence of a heart before he even took over Riku's body

"Ansem's Report 12
I have transcended to an existence of only the heart. I should have come back as a Heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation.
My body has surely perished. However, I am different from the other Heartless, keeping the memories of before, and I have not taken on the form of a Heartless
.
It is evident that there are still many things to be studied.
In order to cross over to the dark realm, which is not this world, you must go beyond the door of Kingdom Hearts, the heart of all worlds.
The core connected to the world's heart, the place that will take me to the world of darkness. (I will record the details in another report...)
There are still so many unknown worlds.
The Realm of the Present...The Realm of darkness. The Realm of light.
And, The Realm of in-between.
In which one will I find sanctuary?"
Xehanort definitely had no change when he turned into a heartless 9 years before KH1

He even said himself there was no change in his body, so while he lost his body and soul in the process of becoming a nobody his appearence stayed the same. its probably in those 9 years his body was surely dying down because he had no protection from the darkness and wandering around that close to darkness should have that big of an impact on his body so he needed a new body by the time he reached Destiny Islands anyway

Hell, the only reason Sora didn't need to possess anyone for a body is because Kairi made him a new one, basically.
no
Kairi purified the darkness from his body. so since a heartless is an existence of a heart but covered by darkness when kairi cleaned the darkness from him sora had his heart "clean" so he was an existence of a heart
 

Lonbilly

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no.
Xehanort was always an existence of a heart before he even took over Riku's body

"Ansem's Report 12
I have transcended to an existence of only the heart. I should have come back as a Heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation.
My body has surely perished. However, I am different from the other Heartless, keeping the memories of before, and I have not taken on the form of a Heartless
.
It is evident that there are still many things to be studied.
In order to cross over to the dark realm, which is not this world, you must go beyond the door of Kingdom Hearts, the heart of all worlds.
The core connected to the world's heart, the place that will take me to the world of darkness. (I will record the details in another report...)
There are still so many unknown worlds.
The Realm of the Present...The Realm of darkness. The Realm of light.
And, The Realm of in-between.
In which one will I find sanctuary?"
Xehanort definitely had no change when he turned into a heartless 9 years before KH1

He even said himself there was no change in his body, so while he lost his body and soul in the process of becoming a nobody his appearence stayed the same. its probably in those 9 years his body was surely dying down because he had no protection from the darkness and wandering around that close to darkness should have that big of an impact on his body so he needed a new body by the time he reached Destiny Islands anyway

Lol, it's official, I really do need to go reread the Reports xD Either way, it still works with the point I was making that Ansem needed a body, be it because he was in the form of a Heartless or was just a fractured, decaying, old man Rasputin body.

no
Kairi purified the darkness from his body. so since a heartless is an existence of a heart but covered by darkness when kairi cleaned the darkness from him sora had his heart "clean" so he was an existence of a heart

I wasn't being serious on that it was actually a new body lol. I was just making a point.
 

alexis.anagram

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True, but when has anything in KH been logical? I mean, yeah, sure that's an old excuse to use, but I think it makes sense why it was there to represent symbolism and what-not. I strongly believe that's why it was there.
I consider most of KH to be quite logical, but that's going to be another subjective vs subjective stance on rationale, so I'll agree to disagree.

I should probably go reread the original reports, but did we need a true, one-line goal sentence to be put in. We knew he wanted darkness, and power, etc. and wanted to blanket the worlds in darkness. And even with the new information we have now, it's entirely possible that was still Ansem SoD's goals.
See, maybe you didn't, but the one thing I concern myself with above all else when engaging any kind of story is the question, "Why?" Why are characters doing what they're doing? Why is the world constructed in the way it is? Etc. For me, it isn't a matter of WHAT Ansem SoD was doing that confused me, it was why he would have wanted to do it in the first place.

Oh no, I know that. But during the original KH did we know he was actually a Heartless for sure? 'Cuz if I had only played it without KH2/CoM I would have thought he was just darkness.
I think someone else already answered this.

This is the way I see it - the same way Sora was a Heartless Shadow, perhaps Ansem was in a similar position. Hell, I've seen people theorize that what was under the robe pre-possession was actually Ansem in the form of Guardian because of the similar shaping. And when he possessed, it could just be he used his powers to manipulate Riku's body or darkness to change it or whatever until when the light "killed" him and Riku regained his body.
But you're talking about conjecture. Not answers. Another question, though; when Riku's body was restored, why was he in the Realm of Darkness?

I dunno, I just never saw it as complicated because even now it doesn't seem complicated. I just think maybe you're looking at it a teentsy bit hard.
I am literally only asking questions about what happened in the game. This is why I say it isn't that simple.

Lol oh yeah, forgot about him not being the original chosen one. And it's evident why the Keyblade left Riku in KH1 - his heart wasn't strong enough whereas Sora's was, so he came out the victor and the Keyblade switched to him. Some people even infer from the scene when Riku's trying to pull Sora into darkness with him that Sora touched Riku's heart (hence the single bright light speckle thing) and that's what allowed him to steal the Keyblade that was meant for Riku.
I was talking about when the Keyblade leaves Sora for Riku. During KH1, it was only ever speculated that the Keyblade was meant for Riku, and the narrative seemed to deny that even if it ended up being true based on what we learned in later installments.

Again, that was probably open to interpretation. Is not bad to have things like that when it's actually good, whereas it could have been terrible like the KH2 mistranslation Riku said of someone choosing Roxas or something but meant the Keyblade, and said "he" instead of "it". And I always guessed that he meant opening the door to KH itself. Either way, it's not even remotely close to being something to even affect the game's story.
I agree, but you were the one to bring it up. I was just responding to your statement that him being the chosen one is enough of an answer. You're contradicting yourself. If it's not even relevant to the story, how is it an answer?

But he did say he was searching for another "key", no? Therefore it was plausible.
No, he did not. He told Donald and Goofy to search for the one with the key.

It still answered the question though, albeit not to the outer territory fans who never got FM/never knew of its existence.
Which is exactly what I said. :3

I guess it just comes with how minds work. I found KH1 a lot easier to follow than KH2 because despite some of the open ended things, they had proof and other things that could help you infer and connect the dots.
Like what? No offense, but the best you've offered me is fan theory and the virtues of leaving things open to interpretation. Hardly proof. x'D

KH1's story was well explained and only left things open that would lead to future titles, and even then there was only like two open-ended mysteries. I never saw any open-ended things in KH2 that bothered me that I can remember, but still, the story was, in my opinion, weaker and executed in a very bad way.
Well, that's my whole point. KH2 was no more confusing than KH1 was. Different people might have different feelings about how the stories were told, but KH1 was not objectively any easier to understand than KH2.
 

theboywonder

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^ Or maybe because it was easy to the point where it was freaking boring? Or how this game started the tradition of every KH game retconning everything? Orall of the worlds being boring as heck? Or the triangle button solving everything?

It's called an opinion.
 

Shinjuku

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Exactly I was a huge fan of KH even lurking this site quite a bit before joining just waiting for Info on Kh2.

Is it my fault Square-Enix and Nomura made Kh2 bomb the way it did. With Kh2 the series could have been just as big as FF, but now we see otherwise.

@ alexis.anagram

I think you're just over-complicating things for the sake of it look I don't remember all of KH1 like I should because I haven't played it in like 6 years all the way through.

What I will say is this whether or not Riku was the original chosen one we knew his heart was very weak to take hold of the keyblade. With Ansem there really is no mystery to be had he's basically an embodiment of darkness even if you don't see that, looking through the Ansem reports you can guess okay scientist who went too far and got messed up by the darkness there is no more to it.

Plus this game really didn't leave me wondering a thing until the very end when you see the three run off into that field trying to find Riku that's all.
 

The Conquerer

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I don't think I hated KH2, only that it wasn't as expansive or in depth as I would have hoped. Felt like more could have been done with the scope of the worlds, the setting could have been darker, the plot could have encompassed more of the KH universe's lore or what not, and Sora and Kairi could have been as substantial in character as Riku and Roxas (even though I don't particularly like Roxas) were.
 

Keystaff Master

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You know there's a lot of this talk of "Riku being the true chosen one", but is that really accurate to say? Of course we don't KNOW the exact legend of the chosen Keyblade Wielder in Kingdom Hearts, but it's not like it was a role specifically given to Riku by the Gods of the KH Universe. Being "the chosen Keyblade Wielder" just seems to be the first person to wield a Keyblade in over a decade (I mean, can you really think of a better explanation of "the chosen"?). Riku WAS the only person to have the Rite of Passage preformed for him, but just because he had the rite preformed does that automatically make him chosen? If that was the case, Terra would have been the chooser of the chosen and... well that doesn't seem right having a teenager pick the chosen of legend.

So, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that fate's intervention is what chose the chosen? Sure, the Keyblade MEANT for Riku went to Sora, but Sora himself WAS the first person in over 10 years to acquire their own Keyblade (Mickey was still using Yen Sid's Star Seeker up until the end of the KH1... and we know he's not the chosen one anyway x[). In the end, it was Sora who became the chosen not by a hand-me-down, but by fate's design. I mean it's not like Sora wasn't worthy of having a Keyblade, he had the ability just as Riku and Kairi did. When it came down to it fate chose him and that is what makes him a chosen of legend.

i.e. Being a "chosen one" isn't a fate you're assigned by some higher being (or even regular person) but is written in the stars themselves, no?
 

alexis.anagram

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You know there's a lot of this talk of "Riku being the true chosen one", but is that really accurate to say? Of course we don't KNOW the exact legend of the chosen Keyblade Wielder in Kingdom Hearts, but it's not like it was a role specifically given to Riku by the Gods of the KH Universe. Being "the chosen Keyblade Wielder" just seems to be the first person to wield a Keyblade in over a decade (I mean, can you really think of a better explanation of "the chosen"?). Riku WAS the only person to have the Rite of Passage preformed for him, but just because he had the rite preformed does that automatically make him chosen? If that was the case, Terra would have been the chooser of the chosen and... well that doesn't seem right having a teenager pick the chosen of legend.

So, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that fate's intervention is what chose the chosen? Sure, the Keyblade MEANT for Riku went to Sora, but Sora himself WAS the first person in over 10 years to acquire their own Keyblade (Mickey was still using Yen Sid's Star Seeker up until the end of the KH1... and we know he's not the chosen one anyway x[). In the end, it was Sora who became the chosen not by a hand-me-down, but by fate's design. I mean it's not like Sora wasn't worthy of having a Keyblade, he had the ability just as Riku and Kairi did. When it came down to it fate chose him and that is what makes him a chosen of legend.

i.e. Being a "chosen one" isn't a fate you're assigned by some higher being (or even regular person) but is written in the stars themselves, no?
The thing about the Rite of Passage is that it's as dependent upon the Keyblade as the Keyblade Master who performs it. The Keyblade has to resonate with the receiver; it's just like Yuffie said, "The Keyblade chooses its master." In KH1, The Keyblade chose Sora because Riku's heart was clearly destabilized and weakened by the darkness, whereas Sora's was not, and also very likely because it sensed a former Keyblade wielder's heart (Ven's) residing within his. If I remember correctly, no one ever said Sora was some kind of "chosen one": only that the Keyblade had chosen him, which was true. This is evidenced further by the battle of hearts Riku and Sora fought in Hollow Bastion; whereas Sora's reluctance to face Riku in battle made his heart initially vulnerable, his willingness to continue to fight for Riku, as well as the network of friends he had connected with throughout his journey, ultimately proved his heart to be the victor.

So, I wouldn't say it has anything in particular to do with fate or even heroic intention, it's just the way the Keyblade functions; it sides with the strongest heart, indiscriminately. As of now, both Sora and Riku are capable of using the Keyblade efficiently and they'll both be positioned as main protagonists in DDD. I don't think there is a chosen one in KH lore; just people fighting for what they believe in most.

But then, I don't really believe in a definitive interpretation of good and evil in KH, either, so I'm bias towards a more ambiguous perspective on any aspect of the story.
 

jmoneydaman

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people just admit it.. you hate it because there is no command board (what aver that thing on the side is called) but in bbs and re coded there is. Also KH1 was a more of a hack and slash then 2 , im sure when you first got it and beat it you were in love with the game.
 

Shinjuku

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Originally Posted by jmoneydaman

people just admit it.. you hate it because there is no command board (what aver that thing on the side is called) but in bbs and re coded there is. Also KH1 was a more of a hack and slash then 2 , im sure when you first got it and beat it you were in love with the game.

The Hell you say I never fell in love with KH2 no matter how hard I tried in fact it's almost so bad that I wiped it clean(or I'm trying) from my memory.
 
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KHHacker6595

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Kingdom Hearts II to me still is good but a lot of the lines for SDG was really CHEEZY, you never really needed Donald or Goofy's help. In Kingdom Hearts 1, I made sure to stock them with items and and upgrade there equipment. In KHII, Sora was so overpowered there was really no need. In Kingdom Hearts 1 I used Summons and Magic to help me against bosses most notably Tinker Bell against Maleficent Dragon but I never really used them in KH2. The thing I do like about Kingdom Hearts II is even thought the prologue was really long its gave you a deeper connection with Roxas and built up the story and finally made the overall plot really EPIC. I made me more interested in Organization XIII as an Organization, like what they do on a daily basis. Days helped me with that. BBS in its own rite had a ton of problems as well. Its script wasn't the best either when it came to Disney Worlds. Terras voice actor was terrible, but Master Xehanort and Vanitas (just to put it simply, AWESOME). The World selection was better and they connected more with the overall plot but they still felt very empty, even more so than prior games. People keep talking about Difficulty, but on all my first runs of these games, there hard. I played Kingdom Hearts 1 on easy when I was younger and it was the hardest thing in the world, (Clayton, Ursala 2nd fight, Riku 2nd fight, Chernaboog, Ansem 2nd fight). Now I can beat it on the hardest difficulty very easily, last time I played it I beat Riku 2nd fight in less than a minute without taking much damage. In Kingdom Hearts 2 the first time playing, almost every Organization member was hard for me, mostly because for some reason I played it the first time without equipting abilities. Now there all extremely easy. There were fights in Days that were hard, BBS that were hard, some in Re:Coded, and definently a lot in Re:COM, probably the hardest kingdom hearts game by far. But now after completing them, they are a lot easier, especially if you've played them multiple times. All I'm getting at is Kingdom Hearts 1 isin't that much harder than Kingdom Hearts 2, your overacting things. But in my opinion, it goes like this. KH1 > BBS > KH2 > COM > Days > Re:Coded. Oh and @Shinjuku, I quoted your comment about the whole Goofy thing, I thought it was mad funny.
 

Shinjuku

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@KHHacker6595

Which one?

Also in terms of sheer difficulty I'd actually go with COM>KH1>BBS>everything else.

In your mind KH1 might not be harder than 2, but if you think back to your first playthrough not even going as far as Maleficent. The number of times you died just getting to Deep Jungle. I remember hating Wonderland and Traverse Town a lot when I was younger.
 

Chrono Mizaki

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people just admit it.. you hate it because there is no command board (what aver that thing on the side is called) but in bbs and re coded there is. Also KH1 was a more of a hack and slash then 2 , im sure when you first got it and beat it you were in love with the game.

...

You earn the Darwinism Award.
 

State

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Aesthetics: In terms of graphics, Kingdom Hearts II deserves a 5/5 because:

1.) It managed to upgrade the visuals presented in Kingdom Hearts, and...

2.) It established a graphical style of its own that was later re-utilized in subsequent releases.

Music: Although this game had some memorable tracks, it's the some that ruins it. The first installment had much more memorable themes and they felt magical, for example, Traverse Town's normal and battle theme. Those pieces of music actually feel like they fit for the atmosphere and make it magical. Meanwhile, KHII's track had a share of awesome themes, but the majority weren't very memorable and just fit with the environment, it didn't make it jump out or make it feel magical or inspire the hearer.

Voice-Acting: Something's that's turning into one of the series' pillars; voice-acting. It has been reacting like waves; they go big, hit themselves, and turn smaller and later grow. What I'm trying to establish with this metaphor is that the voice-acting in the series has had good and bad moments, so it's like a wave; it grows, goes, and grows again.

Gameplay: Well, I have to admit, KH2's mechanics were polished and upgraded from KH's, but in exchange for a fast-paced and flashy gameplay, we got an easy game. Although I used to prefer KH2's mechanics, Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep upgraded that same mechanism and managed to deliver a harder experience (compared with KH2). What they did with the gameplay upgrade between the first and second installment was like filling a balloon with air. It's empty, like a Nobody. A hollowed shell.

Plot: I'm not good when it comes to judging stories, but I'll just throw my opinion here. Personally, I liked Roxas' scenario. It felt like a fresh start in the series and I actually connected with him (a little). Going from the small plane to a higher one, the Organization was an interesting group. It was a group of villains whom each had their own personal way to achieve the goal of their group. But now that I think about it, I think I liked the game's plot because:

1.) I liked the Organization, and...

2.) I was sooo lost in how awesome the gameplay was (albeit easy).

In summation;
The game's plot isn't as intriguing as KH's. KH's was more mysterious. You were a boy, living with your friends in an island. Suddenly, you want to leave and go visit other worlds and later, your home is attacked by mysterious shadows. Afterward, you're lost in an unknown town and have to confront your fears to try and find your friends while saving the worlds and looking for another person.

KH2's was more like; There's a group of individuals that want to be complete again and will do anything for it. Sure, there's no mystery, but what about the tension? And no, I'm not talking about Rising Tension (awesome theme, btw xD), I'm talking about; did you ever feel tensed in the game before? Now that I think about it, I felt tense in other games, but in this one? While fighting an enemy/boss? A cutscene? I didn't feel a thing.

And last but not least...

Characters: Ah, characters. One of the joys of the series. The same series is centered around a couple of characters (some good, some bad). All of the original characters are memorable, I can even name all of them. I have no complaints on any of the characters, really. No design or personality complaints (on my part).

xXx​

All in all, this game isn't good or bad. It's a mediocre game that tends to swing for the good and the bad side, like a pendulum. Also, it hold a very special place in my heart because it's one of those games that made my childhood. :cool:
 

rac7d

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kH2 never sucked it ust made disney worlds into filler episodeds instead of plat realted. Think of Kh1 as dragon ball kai nad kh2 as dragon ball z
 

Mirby

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Well, yeah, the story relevance of Disney worlds in KH2 was virtually non-existent, no doubt due to the fact that you went through each of them twice (five times for Atlantica, but relevance and KH2 Atlantica are as different as wallabies and a black hole). The first time comes off as more of a "doin' the rounds/movie plot adaptation" time, and the second is more "let's stick organization members in disney worlds and count it as story relevance."

That said, it's always a blast to go around decimating enemies as Final Form, and I'll always have fun with the final battles in the game.
 
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