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Why do so many hate Xion?



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DarkosOverlord

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Again, it's not about what they remember. It's about feeling emotions and reasoning and what role their age plays in, something in which Roxas and Xemans shouldn't be divided by anything.
 

Alpha Baymax

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It's because Xion's existence as a being is face-palm worthy. She's "Sora's memories of Kairi manifested into a being, but she's really a part of Sora, but she's also a clone of Roxas". How am I supposed to get invested in a weirdly formulated character like that?

There's nothing wrong with Xion's personality, her appearence has some lore reasoning behind it, but her means of being created is just so dislikable. I can stand Data Sora and Replika Riku because their existence's are to the point, the former is Data and the latter is simply a carbon copy. Xion's convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.
 

KudoTsurugi

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It's because Xion's existence as a being is face-palm worthy. She's "Sora's memories of Kairi manifested into a being, but she's really a part of Sora, but she's also a clone of Roxas". How am I supposed to get invested in a weirdly formulated character like that?
Really? I found her origin rather straight forward, she's a prototype replica designed to siphon off Sora's memories through Roxas. Since she didn't have any memories she could truly call her own, any memories she shared would disappear with her.

If I had to compare her to another character it'd be Senna from the 1st BLEACH movie 'Memories of Nobody'. Both are characters that are conceived from others' memories, both make a connection with the protagonist, both sacrifice their existence to save their friends(though on differing scales) and both die along with their memories.

Personally, I like Xion and the relationship she had with Axel and Roxas, but I can understand why people think her execution could be handled better in spots.
 

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I don't hate her, I just find her so depressing. Her negative vocal tone that swims in hopelessness. Her defeatist attitude. I know that's a given theme in many Japanese gaming and anime storylines, but Xion ultimately didn't get HUGE amounts of screentime in the greater scheme of things, but when she did it was always bringing the tone down.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Really? I found her origin rather straight forward, she's a prototype replica designed to siphon off Sora's memories through Roxas. Since she didn't have any memories she could truly call her own, any memories she shared would disappear with her.
But she's formed from Sora. Does that still not bother you? It's not as though Vexen created an original vessel and poured Sora's memories of Kairi into it, she was a Relica who was personified because of Sora's memories of Kairi. Out of all the characters connected to Sora, Xion seems to be the most forced.
 

Launchpad

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she doesn't add anything that Roxas didn't already establish. It's like if they gave Goofy a best friend named Spoofy and he traveled with SDG and said "gawrsh" every time Goofy said "ahyuck"
 

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She was just a walking retcon. Literally created to be swept under the rug and forgotten about. What could make a character more pointless than that?

She's just Roxas if he actually gave a fraction of a damn about what was happening around him.
He's an idea, Nomura: You scrap your dumb Original the Character fan-insert, and give her role to Roxas instead. He goes on his own looking for answers. He explores Castle Oblivion. He finds Namine.
 
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There are plenty of reasons to dislike Xion in terms of series continuity. As others have mentioned, her sudden introduction and the necessity of rationalizing her absence in KH2 relies on some pretty convenient retcon-territory posturing. A lot of people had different hopes for what Days would look like as a game in general, and Xion represents and, in many ways, singularly accounts for the betrayal of those expectations.

But ultimately, Days is a better game because it did break from those expectations. Rather than wasting our time watching Roxas execute prime shipping material with other org members and retread the same conflict of identity we already know the resolution for, we got a game that advances the larger story's central philosophy through a new character's connection with established lore. And that was really the point of the entire Days-BBS-Coded trilogy: to reconstruct the active plot in order to accommodate a broadening narrative.

The argument that Xion's story could have been filled by Roxas is really missing the point, but I understand the sentiment since watching a fan-fave character whose motivations and personality have already been established play second-fiddle to a character we get to watch develop in real-time makes it more difficult to reconcile the two stories where they converge.

I've never really understood the Xion as Mary-Sue or self-insert perspective, though. She's a character who is expressly designed to have no power of her own, who is frustrated at (almost) every attempt to establish her own will or control her narrative in any way, who disappears for large portions of time, who pointedly has no real insight nor secret special knowledge about anything that's going on, and who spends most of the story either at odds with or being manipulated by the protagonists. If it's simply a matter of introducing a central female character with mythological relevance, contrived relationships with existing characters and a tragic fate then both Aqua and Namine are Mary-Sues. And what does that say about Roxas, Ven, and Terra? Are dudes categorically exempt from this criticism? 'Cause it applies to all of them equally.
 

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I've never really understood the Xion as Mary-Sue or self-insert perspective, though. She's a character who is expressly designed to have no power of her own, who is frustrated at (almost) every attempt to establish her own will or control her narrative in any way, who disappears for large portions of time, who pointedly has no real insight nor secret special knowledge about anything that's going on, and who spends most of the story either at odds with or being manipulated by the protagonists.
She's literally the 'new' best friend of two already established characters and is a main character now, is ""tragic"", and has a "dramatic" and "sad" story. She even has a Keyblade, which is the weapon only limited people can use. Sounds pretty self-inserted to me.

If it's simply a matter of introducing a central female character with mythological relevance, contrived relationships with existing characters and a tragic fate then both Aqua and Namine are Mary-Sues. And what does that say about Roxas, Ven, and Terra? Are dudes categorically exempt from this criticism? 'Cause it applies to all of them equally.
Do you even know what a Mary-Sue is?

A female fanfiction character who is so perfect as to be annoying. The male equivlalent is the Marty-Stu. Often abbreviated to "Sue". A Mary Sue character is usually written by a beginning author. Often, the Mary Sue is a self-insert with a few "improvements" (ex. better body, more popular, etc). The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... The Mary Sue is overpowered. In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe. There are several main types of Mary Sue:

Victim!Sues: The Victim!Sue is your whiny, wimpy, pathetic female character who can't seem to do much of anything except cry and get herself into trouble that the romantic interest of the fic has to rescue her from.
The bold part is basically a description of Xion.
 

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The bold part is basically a description of Xion.
No that's Kairi or Namine. Compared to them Xion is the least helpless person ever. She hardly ever relied on Roxas for support or rescuing (Which was all only before she mastered being able to use the Keyblade). She could fight and take care of herself for the most part. Sure Roxas spent a lot of his time worrying about her but she was never in any real danger she was just off getting answers and questioning her morals and what was right and wrong. And in the end she saved Roxas by making herself look like she wanted to absorb Roxas so Roxas would abosord her instead so Roxas wouldn't cease to exist.
 

Alpha Baymax

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No that's Kairi or Namine. Compared to them Xion is the least helpless person ever. She hardly ever relied on Roxas for support or rescuing (Which was all only before she mastered being able to use the Keyblade). She could fight and take care of herself for the most part. Sure Roxas spent a lot of his time worrying about her but she was never in any real danger she was just off getting answers and questioning her morals and what was right and wrong. And in the end she saved Roxas by making herself look like she wanted to absorb Roxas so Roxas would abosord her instead so Roxas wouldn't cease to exist.
Hold up. You stop right there, Namine actually provides a lot of progression to the Kingdom Hearts narrative. She was important in Chain of Memories, Kingdom Hearts II, 358/2 Days and Coded. She may have been a damsel in distress, but don't undermine her importance in Kingdom Hearts. And by the way, Namine still has relevance because she was the one that guided Terra in finding Aqua in The Realm of Darkness.
 

KudoTsurugi

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Maybe you should replay the game? Because both Roxas and Axel had to save her ass sometimes.
Last I checked, Roxas and Axel only saved her twice in the entire game, no more than that.
Also, being a 'Mary Sue', which doesn't really exist, implies that Xion was Mary Poppins in personality: "practically perfect in every way" and liked by everyone. But she wasn't liked by everyone. Saix never cared about her, seeing her as nothing but a useless, faceless puppet. Xemnas only saw her as a backup plan in case Roxas was deemed useless. And unless your name was Roxas, Axel, Namine or Riku, everyone else was either indifferent to her(the remaining Org XIII members) or never knew she existed(King Mickey).

Also KeybladeKnightQ, in fairness to Kairi and Namine, they have important roles in the games they appear in, plus "strong female characters" doesn't always equal being able to fight their way out of a situation, there are other types of strength.
 
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I wondered that myself awhile back... She's not what many were expecting from Days at the time, among other things.

As Days was my first Kh, I went in with zero expectations. The gameplay was alright, very slow as I remember, and I was just as confused about the story as the characters themselves were. Despite it all, it was the tragic narrative and all the mythos that just drew me in. Who didn't cry when Xion died in Roxas arms? She's this girl who tried very hard to be more than just a puppet, but in the end gave up being with her friends and her very existence to save Sora and, consequently, all the worlds. It's a nice concept for the most part.

Again, looking at the series as a whole now, I agree that Days could have done better to service the overall plot and existing characters. It probably would've been better without her. Be that as it may.. what's done is done. Xion happened lol.

That being said, I do look forward to her coming back so she can finally have that happy ending.
 

Zettaflare

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I've always been kind of neutral towards xion. She was never my favorite, but I can't say I disliked her to the extent that some fans did.

One positive I can say about Xion is that I feel she has the best character theme in the series.
 
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She's literally the 'new' best friend of two already established characters and is a main character now, is ""tragic"", and has a "dramatic" and "sad" story.
Case in point, this description can be assigned to practically any character in the series after the first game.

She even has a Keyblade, which is the weapon only limited people can use.
Ha.

Sounds pretty self-inserted to me.
Again, case in point: what about Namine and Chain of Memories? New best friend of Sora and Riku, dramatic and sad story, ends in pretty tragic fashion.

Do you even know what a Mary-Sue is?
An unhelpful catch-all descriptor for a writing trope which, with enough selective reading of the targeted material, can be applied to practically any sequel-specific character in the history of literature.
Given that, I'm using the perspectives provided in this thread to ground the discussion, because otherwise it's just too nebulous.

A female fanfiction character who is so perfect as to be annoying. The male equivlalent is the Marty-Stu. Often abbreviated to "Sue". A Mary Sue character is usually written by a beginning author. Often, the Mary Sue is a self-insert with a few "improvements" (ex. better body, more popular, etc). The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... The Mary Sue is overpowered. In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe. There are several main types of Mary Sue

So focusing on the main definition, this doesn't jive with Xion's character at all. Xion isn't intended to be "perfect" or even necessarily "good": she spends the majority of the game confused and prone to bitterly lashing out at the people around her, essentially attempting (wrongly) to work out her troubles as a one-woman island who actively isolates from the other characters, investing only in Riku because she sees in him a reflection of her own journey (Xion's thematic power as a mirror character is paramount) and a kindred spirit. The questions of Xion's appearance is overtly deconstructed, given that her nature is to reciprocate the vision of others so her "beauty" can only be conferred upon her: even her appearance doesn't belong to her. Overpowered? She only has access to that super rare "Keyblade" (which has been or will be wielded by every single KH original main good guy and several Disney tie-ins by the time KH3 rolls around) through her connection to other, more powerful characters: she's consistently shown getting her ass whooped even by characters who don't have a Keyblade. Upstaging? This is superficially true, but a closer reading indicates that the whole point of Xion's character is to reframe and deepen our understanding of existing character dynamics and the natural logic of the KH universe, to put the greater story that is occurring around her into perspective.

Victim!Sues: The Victim!Sue is your whiny, wimpy, pathetic female character who can't seem to do much of anything except cry and get herself into trouble that the romantic interest of the fic has to rescue her from.
The bold part is basically a description of Xion.
1: Overpowered
2: Can't seem to do much of anything except cry
And this is why I say the descriptor is nebulous and unhelpful. You can't have it both ways, but as it happens, this completely contradictory version of the trope you just listed is no more relevant here. First of all, it lacks context: let's go back to Namine. She starts CoM having been kidnapped, spends the entirety of the game literally taking on the role of romantic interest of the main character, arguably accomplishes nothing of her own volition, bemoans her circumstances and uses them to justify her melancholic so-sad attempt to entrap SDG and then whines to them about how even that wasn't the right choice, and then basically sits around and begs everyone to forgive her for the rest of her character arc.

Obviously that is a totally unbalanced, surface-level reading of her character which doesn't take any of the particulars of her circumstances and the real strengths of her character into account. But that's how people read Xion. Doesn't do much of anything? Xion abandons the Organization light years before Roxas ever got enough of a clue or the gumption to do so, then runs away again when they try to bring her back. She spends the game actively investigating her own origins and trying to navigate a world that is unfamiliar and essentially hostile to her, advocating as best she can for her own right to exist while being forced to reckon with the undeniable truth that her presence runs contrary to the greater good. After a game's worth of contemplation, she then uses this knowledge to summon the courage to make the necessary sacrifice in order to secure a safer future for the people she cares about. A victim?

Roxas: Did I do this to you?
Xion: No. It was my choice to go away now.

The whole of Xion's story is her journey to reclaim her agency and identity, working against the tides of a world that won't allow her to have a happy ending where she can be the person she wants to be with the people she wants to be with and making tough choices about what that ultimately means for her and for them. But the great thing about Days (like CoM before it) is that it's chock full of those imperfect decisions and genuine character flaws which prevent the story from reaching a state of straightforward conclusion: Xion sets the precedent for what Roxas needs to do, leading by example, but because Roxas is his own character who has had his own experiences over the course of the game, it drives him in a different and unintended direction, furthering the thematic wedge between them as characters: Xion sees the need to act and does so-- and therefore works in tandem with nature and a universal understanding of destiny/fate without submitting to it (it's important to recognize that her sacrifice contains many, many echoes of Sora's in KH1); Roxas sees the same situation and digs his heels in, conversely decrying the inevitable endgame yet ultimately still finding himself subject to it (literally flat on his back in front of Riku).

Xion: You and I may both be exceptional Roxas, but I don't think we're quite the same. (Day 151)

This doesn't even touch on the constant use of "time" as a refrain (the visual symbolism of the ice cream as a marker), Xemnas's own repeated failures of imagination and how that contextualizes him as a character ~and the best KH villain~ (indeed, one who knows nothing can understanding nothing), or the excellent work done to bridge Axel's extremes in personality which puts that old KH question of what a real friendship is to the ultimate test. Xion made all of that possible as a matter of presentation, and while it's obviously true the writing team could have gone about things any old way they wanted-- that's the nature of storytelling. Everything could always be different.
 

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One positive I can say about Xion is that I feel she has the best character theme in the series.
Tbh I'm one of the few people who really hate her theme. I consider it the worst KH theme (after Castle Of Dreams Bibbity theme and Vector to the Heavens).
 

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Again, case in point: what about Namine and Chain of Memories? New best friend of Sora and Riku, dramatic and sad story, ends in pretty tragic fashion.
Lol Are you being serious with this? Namine being their new best friend was ploy by the Organization to manipulate Sora. With Xion, Nomura was blatantly trying to recreate another SRK.
 
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