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People like Aqua because she was what all the Kingdom Hearts fans wish Kairi was.
Why is Aqua so popular?
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If Terra died in the end, it would be so that Xehanort cannot come back to life, rebirth, or whatever again. Then they'd have a memorial, and everyone would live happily on Destiny Islands, until some evil shit comes back.
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Alright, I'm calling it now. Terra and Ventus are saved but Aqua makes some huge sacrifice. It'd be bittersweet.
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blech, no way. I want all three to survive so they can go on another adventure but this time working together instead of splitting up. Birth by Sleep 3 or something like that.
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He'd sacrifice himself in a heartbeat, but that's the problem. By the end of the game, Terra wants to die ("Aqua... put an end to me"), which makes any self-sacrifice on his part into something much darker. Besides, Redemption Equals Death has an awful tendency to minimize any real underlying issues that the character needs to come to terms with -- he's dead and everyone else is sad, but his sacrifice basically turns him into an angel who no longer needs to concern himself with little things like the massive shame complex he has over his use of the darkness, his tendency to blame himself for things that he was forced to do, and the enormous sense of guilt he's bound to feel over everything that Xehanort did to the Worlds while using his body.
Self-sacrifice can be really effective when done right, but it would just be horribly messed up to allow a character who's been victimized as much as Terra has been to chose that believing that he's really earned that fate. =/
I'm going to swallow my pride here and simply walk away at this point. Not because I concede your point but because I don't have the initiative to argue over something that I find to be very inconsequential in the end (been trying not to do that as much but hey, old habits die hard).
Literally copied everything you said into Pages to have it better organized and started writing responses when I realized that I'm making an essay out of it (I looked at my first response alone and said what the bonk). Arguments are being scrutinized and tangents being traversed to the point of absurdity.
I just got finished writing a dissertation and several midsemester essays. I don't feel like writing another essay at this point and even if I did in a few days time, I have to ask myself whether it would even be worth bringing up. Points are being made ad nauseam and there isn't any progress.
I did skim your post and there are things that I'd like to address but I feel it would be a tad disingenuous of me to pick them out without also replying to other parts of your post which may warrant a response. Still, I can't help but make this one last point, using a piece of what I typed out, or at least reiterate it:
When Vanitas says "Our union was not finished," which is backed by the character reports, I don't understand how you can possibly say that what Vanitas was holding was the complete X-Blade. The wording is key. If Aqua had actually broken up the finished union, then that statement would, unequivocally, be invalidated (we can't take this as a lie since it is in the character reports themselves). Had the wording been different- had it been that their union was "interrupted" for instance, that changes things.
The union had not been finished = The union never was complete.
The union was interrupted = The union may have been complete.
You could even make a case if it was "The union is not finished" because it that says nothing about whether or not it was finished prior to that moment. It should be noted that the character reports uses the past perfect continuous "had not been finished," which means a duration in the past. ie, their union was not finished for a duration. According to what you say, it very much was, which is impossible. To use an analogy, saying "John's blood pressure had not reached 120/80" means... exactly that. We cannot possibly suggest that John's blood pressure may have reached 120/80. But what about the context? Say it was "John's blood pressure had not reached 120/80 in the doctor's office"? You are correct in saying that it could have been 120/80 in some time before the doctor's office, however there is no qualifier in the X-Blade sentence and the duration is set by the union itself.
The past perfect continuous tense can also be used to explain something in the right context. In conjunction with the semicolon which I already talked about, the sentence "it was damaged; their union had not been finished." grammatically means (without any doubt), "The X-Blade was damaged because their union had not been finished." And since I clarified that the union couldn't be finished during the fight with Aqua, then this necessarily means that the X-Blade was considered damaged well before she cracked it.
I'm not talking out of my ass here. But already this is way longer than it should have been and if you addressed this in your post and I didn't catch it, I apologize.
Literally copied everything you said into Pages to have it better organized and started writing responses when I realized that I'm making an essay out of it (I looked at my first response alone and said what the bonk). Arguments are being scrutinized and tangents being traversed to the point of absurdity.
I just got finished writing a dissertation and several midsemester essays. I don't feel like writing another essay at this point and even if I did in a few days time, I have to ask myself whether it would even be worth bringing up. Points are being made ad nauseam and there isn't any progress.
I did skim your post and there are things that I'd like to address but I feel it would be a tad disingenuous of me to pick them out without also replying to other parts of your post which may warrant a response. Still, I can't help but make this one last point, using a piece of what I typed out, or at least reiterate it:
When Vanitas says "Our union was not finished," which is backed by the character reports, I don't understand how you can possibly say that what Vanitas was holding was the complete X-Blade. The wording is key. If Aqua had actually broken up the finished union, then that statement would, unequivocally, be invalidated (we can't take this as a lie since it is in the character reports themselves). Had the wording been different- had it been that their union was "interrupted" for instance, that changes things.
The union had not been finished = The union never was complete.
The union was interrupted = The union may have been complete.
You could even make a case if it was "The union is not finished" because it that says nothing about whether or not it was finished prior to that moment. It should be noted that the character reports uses the past perfect continuous "had not been finished," which means a duration in the past. ie, their union was not finished for a duration. According to what you say, it very much was, which is impossible. To use an analogy, saying "John's blood pressure had not reached 120/80" means... exactly that. We cannot possibly suggest that John's blood pressure may have reached 120/80. But what about the context? Say it was "John's blood pressure had not reached 120/80 in the doctor's office"? You are correct in saying that it could have been 120/80 in some time before the doctor's office, however there is no qualifier in the X-Blade sentence and the duration is set by the union itself.
The past perfect continuous tense can also be used to explain something in the right context. In conjunction with the semicolon which I already talked about, the sentence "it was damaged; their union had not been finished." grammatically means (without any doubt), "The X-Blade was damaged because their union had not been finished." And since I clarified that the union couldn't be finished during the fight with Aqua, then this necessarily means that the X-Blade was considered damaged well before she cracked it.
I'm not talking out of my ass here. But already this is way longer than it should have been and if you addressed this in your post and I didn't catch it, I apologize.
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Grass, both you and Ikkin are very intelligent individuals. But at the risk of demeaning a hobby we all partake in to a large degree, you guys are arguing about a video game. And both of your opinions can be equally valid until we get Nomura to flat out say what series of events happened in what order. That's the trouble with the arts, unlike mathematics and science there can be many valid interpretations. I lean towards Ikkin's side, but that is largely due to how I personally interpreted the scenes. My best friend vehemently disagrees with me, favoring your opinion.
So this is a case of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object....
So this is a case of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object....
i've been a fan of Aqua since i first saw her without her helmet in the first CG trailer. and ever since then i've grown to respect her character and want to play her character more then Terra or Ventus. I think people are so into her because she's a well balanced character. she has a mothering quality and a big sister type of personality, she cares for those who are in need. not to mention she just kicks so much @$$ in the game! She quick, agile, deadly with magic and her keyblade attacks are incredible. I'll always be a fan of Aqua and would love to see her in her own game or I would love to play the extra scenario of her in the Road of Darkness.
That argument between Ikkin and Grass was really very interesting to follow and just shows in how many ways KH can be interpreted, which is what Nomura also intends to some degree.
I have to say though that I also tend more into Grass' explanations and opinion because it makes much more sense and has more evidence overall.
Ventus's theme was not simply to sacrifice himself but also to show how much stronger he had become over the course of the game. He actively resisted being enslaved by Vanitas, and while he failed on the physical plane and Vanitas was able to enter his heart, his mind resisted enough so he could not take over.
Aqua's theme on the other hand was also to be the one who actively tries to save her friends from Xehanort's machinations and prevent the unlocking of KH, which she did splendidly without her having to steal away fame from Ven by only enabling him to resist by cracking the X-blade, it would in fact undo much of Ven's development as well.
She's further also the main cause behind Ansem the Wise taking in Xehanort, responsible for the creation of Castle Oblivion, she's the reason why Kairi ended up on Destiny Islands and not any other world when Xehanort casts her into the sea of worlds later and accidentally responsible for Kairi having the wielder ability.
There's already enough for Aqua's "glory" so to speak.
In that final battle her main aim was also to rescue Ventus, not necessarily shatter the weapon. Aqua doesn't need to prove any big strength as she has already done it during her scenario by defeating Hades + Ice Colossus alone, facing Maleficent in her strongest form and beat Vanitas on her own twice.
Furthermore, that "laser-blade" she got to actually manage to crack the X-blade came because both Terra and Ventus lend her some strength through their strong connection...would be pretty much impossible if Ventus was fully subdued by Vanitas and only allowed to resist when Aqua cracked the "physical" X-blade.
It's also made pretty clear by Vanitas's wording in more than one case:
"Our Union was not finished!" is one, then there's the bit of "the X-blade should not stay broken like this, join me now and we can complete the X-blade!"
It's neither "re-join" nor "repair", the weapon was broken/incomplete from the start. It only looked complete on the outside.
The fact that Ventus still was resisting and Vanitas, while having control over the body, was not 100% in charge can even be seen in the appearance of Ventus-Vanitas, as the hybrid-existence gained Vanitas's eyes and bodysuit, but it still regained Ven's golden hair.
The takeover of Terra by Xehanort on the other hand shaped the body to imbed Xehanort's looks completely except the clothing.
The compromise situation would be, at least in my humble view, that, like Grass said, Vanitas lost control of the outside part of the battle when Aqua cracked the physical manifestation of the X-blade.
Seeing now his options on the outside running out Vanitas decides to take drastic measures (he and Ven were evenly matched during most of their fight).
So, when Aqua cracked the X-blade and it flew up in the air it was at that time when Vanitas shattered the awakening pillar and forces a D-Link on Ven to forcefully complete the blade and "save" it.
When the X-blade floats in the air it's outer "physical" shell disappears and we see that at the core it was already broken. The energy strands blasting out of it are actually the energies of Ven's and Vanitas's hearts clashing while they have their "beam-o-war" in the field of stained glass shards during the last part of Ventus's battle.
In that battle Ven finally defeats Vanitas...and the dark suit disappears finally from his unconsious body.
Sorry I turned that into an "essay" as well now but I didn't want to agree on one opinion without giving my interpretation/take on it. ^__^
Great debate anyways.
I have to say though that I also tend more into Grass' explanations and opinion because it makes much more sense and has more evidence overall.
Ventus's theme was not simply to sacrifice himself but also to show how much stronger he had become over the course of the game. He actively resisted being enslaved by Vanitas, and while he failed on the physical plane and Vanitas was able to enter his heart, his mind resisted enough so he could not take over.
Aqua's theme on the other hand was also to be the one who actively tries to save her friends from Xehanort's machinations and prevent the unlocking of KH, which she did splendidly without her having to steal away fame from Ven by only enabling him to resist by cracking the X-blade, it would in fact undo much of Ven's development as well.
She's further also the main cause behind Ansem the Wise taking in Xehanort, responsible for the creation of Castle Oblivion, she's the reason why Kairi ended up on Destiny Islands and not any other world when Xehanort casts her into the sea of worlds later and accidentally responsible for Kairi having the wielder ability.
There's already enough for Aqua's "glory" so to speak.
In that final battle her main aim was also to rescue Ventus, not necessarily shatter the weapon. Aqua doesn't need to prove any big strength as she has already done it during her scenario by defeating Hades + Ice Colossus alone, facing Maleficent in her strongest form and beat Vanitas on her own twice.
Furthermore, that "laser-blade" she got to actually manage to crack the X-blade came because both Terra and Ventus lend her some strength through their strong connection...would be pretty much impossible if Ventus was fully subdued by Vanitas and only allowed to resist when Aqua cracked the "physical" X-blade.
It's also made pretty clear by Vanitas's wording in more than one case:
"Our Union was not finished!" is one, then there's the bit of "the X-blade should not stay broken like this, join me now and we can complete the X-blade!"
It's neither "re-join" nor "repair", the weapon was broken/incomplete from the start. It only looked complete on the outside.
The fact that Ventus still was resisting and Vanitas, while having control over the body, was not 100% in charge can even be seen in the appearance of Ventus-Vanitas, as the hybrid-existence gained Vanitas's eyes and bodysuit, but it still regained Ven's golden hair.
The takeover of Terra by Xehanort on the other hand shaped the body to imbed Xehanort's looks completely except the clothing.
The compromise situation would be, at least in my humble view, that, like Grass said, Vanitas lost control of the outside part of the battle when Aqua cracked the physical manifestation of the X-blade.
Seeing now his options on the outside running out Vanitas decides to take drastic measures (he and Ven were evenly matched during most of their fight).
So, when Aqua cracked the X-blade and it flew up in the air it was at that time when Vanitas shattered the awakening pillar and forces a D-Link on Ven to forcefully complete the blade and "save" it.
When the X-blade floats in the air it's outer "physical" shell disappears and we see that at the core it was already broken. The energy strands blasting out of it are actually the energies of Ven's and Vanitas's hearts clashing while they have their "beam-o-war" in the field of stained glass shards during the last part of Ventus's battle.
In that battle Ven finally defeats Vanitas...and the dark suit disappears finally from his unconsious body.
Sorry I turned that into an "essay" as well now but I didn't want to agree on one opinion without giving my interpretation/take on it. ^__^
Great debate anyways.
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Aqua's popularity is due to being the first Kingdom Hearts female to be playable in the main story, as well as holding her own without being kidnapped.
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Let's not forget the fact that she has the biggest breast of all the KH females so far, tights, a very tight top thingy and blue hair. It's a no-brainer why she's so popular.
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Oh come now. It's no huge secret that Kingdom Hearts ain't exactly a series for men into fanservice.
Aqua has all of those things, but I assure you they are not why she is popular.
Out of curiosity, what is your personal view of Aqua?
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In comparison to 14-15 year old girls and one woman whose covered by an Organization coat. Which isn't saying much.
They also don't have a tight bodice that accentuates the chest. Cause that's all it really is in terms of Aqua; the outlines of the shape at the front rather than the actual boobs themselves (once they give you an actual sideways look, what's the big deal?). I definitely see nothing there to be impressed about otherwise in comparison to other well-endowed females whose hype I actually DO understand. No one's yet to explain this to me after all this time.
She's more of the average sized woman. Well, American woman. In CGI, it would be Japanese woman.
:/
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If you guys couldn't tell, I quoted the post that I quoted for a reason. I wasn't saying that she was only popular for her sex-appeal, just that it was an addition to what the other guy had said. And don't even try to pretend that her sex-appeal isn't a factor as to why she's popular, don't even try. I know loads of people into Kingdom Hearts, and I know that it's a pretty common thing within the male KH gamers to think that "Aqua is the hottest thing ever *fapfapfap*". I've seen the mods people have made that make Aqua have less clothes, or even naked.
Again, I wasn't saying that it was the ONLY reason, I was just saying all those things I said have definitely contributed to her popularity.
And my personal view on Aqua? She was an alright character I guess, she seemed a bit vanilla to me, but I know that I'm alone in that opinion. She was probably my least favourite among the BBS playable characters, but she wasn't a bad character by any means.
aqua is popular cos shes a girl and girls rule! xDDD boys drooooool well not my boyfriend he is AWESOME ! X3
^^^^^_____________wat_____________^^^^^
well u hav 2 agree, there arent a lot of girls in the kh series, only kairi and she was always like a bit dumb or sthg? she needed rescuin, so its nice 2 c a girl who can kick ass like aqua dies, thats why shes so popular and also bc teenage boys get excited wen they see boobs
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Kairi was never stop or anything of the likes, she's always seemed pretty bright to me. The only, original, character who can seem outright "dumb" at times is Sora, as much as I love him. Kairi has to be rescued because, well, she's 14 years in the original, and 15 in the sequel, how is a girl like that supposed to protect herself against some big flamboyant guy with red hair? She is also a princess of heart, so she's obviously the most amazing character in the game.
There are other girls in the KH series though, Namine, Olette and Larxene. The latter of which can kick a lot of ass.
There are other girls in the KH series though, Namine, Olette and Larxene. The latter of which can kick a lot of ass.
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