Why were Hayner Pence and Olette on the destiny islands? (Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

What happened to the world order that Donald was obsessed with? Me personally, it doesn't bother me, because those are trustworthy, and in way. it's a way for Roxas to have that trip to the beach he never got to have with any of his friends, of course, the day became ruined when Sora disappeared after saving Kairi, (seriously they had a beach party while their friends were lost, there was a possibility that one of them, was never coming home, I mean technically, he did come home, for only a day, that he spent with Kairi, but still, they are the worst friends ever if they're going to throw a party while their friends are missing or presumed dead),but that's beside the point, I'm just curious, what are thoughts, also, do you think HPO could become keyblade wielders at some point?

 

[andreverts]

Maybe Destiny Islands is the beach which they referred to in KH2 and a train from Twilight Town leads there.

 

[WaltK]

Maybe Destiny Islands is the beach which they referred to in KH2 and a train from Twilight Town leads there.

I highly doubt that lol

 

[vaderskywalker]

Maybe Destiny Islands is the beach which they referred to in KH2 and a train from Twilight Town leads there.

That would make sense, because in KH2, there was a train that went from Twilight Town to the mysterious tower, and if you look closely at twilight on the world map in KH2, you can see that the two are completely separate worlds, but there is a catch to your theory, the train to the tower was decorated to look like it belonged to Yen Sid, but maybe that's how that works, maybe there are other trains, that go to other worlds, maybe decorated to look like they belong to that world, but there are a lot of worlds that don't have trains, like Agrabah, so how would that work?

 

[palizinhas]

I think the world order went out of the window for HPO the moment Sora put them in contact with Ienzo. KH2 you could still explain the two Twilight Towns away as being a weirdness of their own world, Ienzo very clearly wasn't a TwTw local

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I think the world order went out of the window for HPO the moment Sora put them in contact with Ienzo. KH2 you could still explain the two Twilight Towns away as being a weirdness of their own world, Ienzo very clearly wasn't a TwTw local

Indeed, you could even say that the "world order" went out of the window even on a grand scale once the gummi phone itself was introduced which apparently functions across the entire universe.

Even more so because apparently every major character got gifted one as well as a whole swath of supporting characters too and not all of them are Keyblade Wielders who by the world order are supposedly allowed to know.

If they would want to take holding up the world order seriously each of them would have to double-check no local resident is around before they make or take a call.

---
Also, concerning the initial topic of the beach party I do recall that specifically Roxas was not even near HPO in a single scene. First he is seen doing a racing game with Riku and Terra, then he is seen afterwards standing in the background while chatting up both Aqua and Terra.

 

[Elysium]

I think the world order went out of the window for HPO the moment Sora put them in contact with Ienzo. KH2 you could still explain the two Twilight Towns away as being a weirdness of their own world, Ienzo very clearly wasn't a TwTw local

Well, I think it went out the window for HPO much earlier than that, thanks to the twin Twilight Towns debacle, their unexplained feelings for Sora as he left for Mysterious Tower (triggered by Roxas), Kairi appearing out of nowhere and then being dragged by Axel into a pool of darkness, etc. I feel like they fit on Destiny Islands with the others because of their connections to Roxas and Kairi, and since Roxas, Lea, Isa, and Xion (maybe also Namine?) join Twilight Town at the end of the story.

 

[vaderskywalker]

lso, concerning the initial topic of the beach party I do recall that specifically Roxas was not even near HPO in a single scene. First he is seen doing a racing game with Riku and Terra, then he is seen afterwards standing in the background while chatting up both Aqua and Terra.

Well, you are allowed to socialize at a party, you don't all have to stay in one particular group, and he was seen on the clock tower with Lea, Isa, Xion, Hayner, Pence, and Olette.

 

[WaltK]

That would make sense, because in KH2, there was a train that went from Twilight Town to the mysterious tower, and if you look closely at twilight on the world map in KH2, you can see that the two are completely separate worlds, but there is a catch to your theory, the train to the tower was decorated to look like it belonged to Yen Sid, but maybe that's how that works, maybe there are other trains, that go to other worlds, maybe decorated to look like they belong to that world, but there are a lot of worlds that don't have trains, like Agrabah, so how would that work?

None of that seems plausible.

I reckon the train to Yen Sid’s tower was just a one off, specifically for Sora’s use. And it’s said on one of the KH3 social media loading screens that the tower moves.

 

[kirabook]

Hayner, Pence, and Olette are already clued in the "World Order" stuff. It's not like they invited the entire Twilight Town over for a midnight rager in the beach. Those three are in the in crowd now, so they get special treatment.

But, I have always liked the idea that Destiny Islands is the "beach" they're always talking about even though it doesn't really make sense for them to be connected like that. It's just, from what I remember of Days, especially the movie version, they seemed to tie Twilight Town and Destiny Islands together a lot whenever "the beach" was mentioned.

I guess two worlds being connected like that isn't TOO odd.
There's Yen Sid's Tower and Twilight Town.

But there's also things like Disney Castle and um.... what's the name of it again.... Timeless River. That's right. That's more of a time travel thing, but still.

Then you got Radiant Garden and Space Paranoids, which is technically just a data world.

Also Radiant Garden and 100 Acre Wood, which again, acts more like a data world than its own world.

 

[Elysium]

I wonder if Nomura had been thinking of the beach scene at the end of 3 when he was writing the Twilight Town prologue in 2 considering the hints about a beach they want to see that they never get to go to? I suppose not, since I think someone said he hadn't intended to bring Roxas back at one time. Or was that Xion he was talking about?

 

[palizinhas]

I wonder if Nomura had been thinking of the beach scene at the end of 3 when he was writing the Twilight Town prologue in 2 considering the hints about a beach they want to see that they never get to go to? I suppose not, since I think someone said he hadn't intended to bring Roxas back at one time. Or was that Xion he was talking about?

Nomura basically spent a decade flipflopping on whether or not to bring Roxas and Xion back. He started putting in hints they could return as early as BBS but right up until writing KH3 still wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not.

I don't think the beach ending was planned from KH2 at all - if anything, Sora ending up back on the Islands in the ending of KH2 and Roxas appearing briefly was probably as much of a closure for his wish to go to the beach as he was going to have. And then Roxas became the second most popular character of the series.

 

[Face My Fears]

Indeed, you could even say that the "world order" went out of the window even on a grand scale once the gummi phone itself was introduced which apparently functions across the entire universe.

Even more so because apparently every major character got gifted one as well as a whole swath of supporting characters too and not all of them are Keyblade Wielders who by the world order are supposedly allowed to know.

If they would want to take holding up the world order seriously each of them would have to double-check no local resident is around before they make or take a call.

---
Also, concerning the initial topic of the beach party I do recall that specifically Roxas was not even near HPO in a single scene. First he is seen doing a racing game with Riku and Terra, then he is seen afterwards standing in the background while chatting up both Aqua and Terra.

I wish they would explain how the Gummi Phone works. If time moves differently in each world, then how would a phone call between two different worlds really work out? Also, where are the cell towers that provide coverage across the galaxy?

 

[vaderskywalker]

I wish they would explain how the Gummi Phone works. If time moves differently in each world, then how would a phone call between two different worlds really work out? Also, where are the cell towers that provide coverage across the galaxy?

It probably helps to imagine kingdom hearts as a multiverse, instead of a universe.

 

[vaderskywalker]

None of that seems plausible.

I reckon the train to Yen Sid’s tower was just a one off, specifically for Sora’s use. And it’s said on one of the KH3 social media loading screens that the tower move

What do you mean none what I said seems plausible? okay maybe a train for each world is a dumb idea, but seriously, if you look at Twilight Town on the world map in KH2 very closely you can see that there's a gap between the Mysterious Tower and Twilight town, and I know it says that on the social media loading screen, but it seemed pretty clear from the beginning that they were separate worlds, I think they just put them together for KH2 because of how small the Mysterious Tower was.

 

[Zackarix]

The World Order is an excuse to keep Disney worlds self-contained because the Disney Company is terrified of crossovers and doesn't trust SE despite them creating Disney's most successful video game franchise.

HPO are original characters, so they're exempt from crossover cooties.

 

[vaderskywalker]

The World Order is an excuse to keep Disney worlds self-contained because the Disney Company is terrified of crossovers and doesn't trust SE despite them creating Disney's most successful video game franchise.

HPO are original characters, so they're exempt from crossover cooties.

That is an out of universe explanation, which means it doesn't count, in universe I see it more akin (don't know if I spelled that right.) to star trek's prime directive.

 

[Zackarix]

That is an out of universe explanation, which means it doesn't count, in universe I see it more akin (don't know if I spelled that right.) to star trek's prime directive.

Thing is, you can't always separate in-universe and out-of-universe explanations. The world order breaks involving HPO aren't that much worse than some of the slip-ups made in front of Disney characters. Or even if they are, why does breaking the World Order around them once make it so that it no longer matters? Why aren't Simba, Genie, Mushu, Tinker Bell, etc. at the beach party? They've actually fought with Sora in worlds other than their own so World Order has been broken for them and they should be free to travel, right?

In the end, the original characters and worlds follow different narrative rules than the Disney ones. We can theorize about why in-universe, but those theories aren't canon unless confirmed by official material.

 

[Chie]

That is an out of universe explanation, which means it doesn't count

In Kingdom Hearts, there isn't much of a difference.

In Union X, when the game's end of life was announced in the real world, updates began releasing about the digital world the characters existing in bugging out as it prepared to shut down, in-universe. At the same time, it was preparing to shut down out of universe. Nomura brought his story he wrote, which was first called X, then Unchained X, then Union X, to a conclusion - and the Master of Masters brought his pre-planned scenario, which happened in three stages called X, Unchained X and Union X, to a conclusion.

This is the level the series operates on. "World order" refers to the integrity of the original Disney movie plot, something I suspected before but nearly confirmed by Dark Road. Kingdom Hearts is a metafictional story, it is not a consistent fictional universe that makes sense as a world that could actually exist and operate. You must accept this to understand.

 

[Agroogrooiya]

HPO get a free pass because they're KHOCs and otherwise not Donald Goofy or Mickey. Ansem and his rrsearchers wouldve been on DI (and in fact, Ansem himself was on DI in DDD now that I think about it) if they werent busy scanning stuff.