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Would you want ReMind to Change Anything in the Canonical Story



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Noivern

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I do remember my initial reaction to that line “take care of them” as being like really??? Terra?? But I like to think of it as being Eraqus’s way of telling Terra that he recognizes him as a capable person, since it was clear Terra wanted to prove himself to Eraqus through out BBS. I’m not sure in what sense he belittled Aqua in this scene?

I definitely feel like that line could have been phrased better to not make it look like Ventus and Aqua were somehow lesser and needed supervision. I think it would have been better if had told them to all look after one another. Solidifying the three of them as being his legacy.
Definitely agree on this. It just rubbed me wrong how it makes it seem like Terra is the elder brother taking care of them, when he and Aqua seem to be of the same age and both are his kids. I also understand what they tried to do with how fragile Aqua looks at that scene, rushing to her master's side and looking as innocent as Ventus. In theory it could have been a good follow up to her breakdown at Destiny Islands for finally being back and showing some fragility to the character, but seeing her just stand there and accept her foster father and master kind of ignoring both of them only to give Terra the "talk" to look after them just did not fit for me.

Although honestly it's still pretty in character considering how Terra seemed to always be his favorite anyways. lol

(By the by, I know I'm coming of as a huge Aqua fan and while she is one of my favorites, I love the BBS trio and have a lot of love for Terra as well and it's definitely not his character's fault to be written in the way he is in 3. It's just that she's essentially the ONLY female character to be treated equally to the other main characters up to that point and it honestly felt to me that they kinda threw her to the side a bit on the endgame to redeem Terra, when there was space for both of them.)
 

Twilight Lumiair

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Definitely agree on this. It just rubbed me wrong how it makes it seem like Terra is the elder brother taking care of them, when he and Aqua seem to be of the same age and both are his kids. I also understand what they tried to do with how fragile Aqua looks at that scene, rushing to her master's side and looking as innocent as Ventus. In theory it could have been a good follow up to her breakdown at Destiny Islands for finally being back and showing some fragility to the character, but seeing her just stand there and accept her foster father and master kind of ignoring both of them only to give Terra the "talk" to look after them just did not fit for me.

Although honestly it's still pretty in character considering how Terra seemed to always be his favorite anyways. lol

(By the by, I know I'm coming of as a huge Aqua fan and while she is one of my favorites, I love the BBS trio and have a lot of love for Terra as well and it's definitely not his character's fault to be written in the way he is in 3. It's just that she's essentially the ONLY female character to be treated equally to the other main characters up to that point and it honestly felt to me that they kinda threw her to the side a bit on the endgame to redeem Terra, when there was space for both of them.)
I don't think "fragile" is necessarily the best term to use. It's more like... Vulnerability. It's always important that we get to see characters be raw and open with their emotions, because that's one of the most human ways you can portray a character.

That said, I don't think that final scene with Eraqus would bother me so much if Aqua just got better treatment and respect in KH3 as a whole. As it stands, it just feels like a bow on all the needless humiliation the game threw her way, and having someone say she "needs to be looked after", only compounds how diminished her influence feels as a character.

What exactly was her reward for enduring those 10+ years in the RoD? She gets her Keyblade randomly stripped from her, is screwed over as an afterthought by someone who shouldn't have even been there to begin with, and consequently loses any and all agency she could've had in her eventual return to the RoL (even managing to take an L to Sora, while also actively resisting the salvation her whole arc has had her fighting to achieve). Then she miraculously goes on to fail in every task she was brought back to complete (undermining the whole point of her rescue), loses every battle she's in, and now in the end, she has to be "looked after" by the person who's mess she had to sacrifice herself attempting to remedy, too? Where's the respect in any of this? Where's her agency? Where's her impact?

I get what they were trying to do with showing how Eraqus finally trust Terra (even if he already admitted his failure to him in BBS), but it comes off as odd how Aqua gets one line of acknowledgement from him despite doing the most (and arguably suffering the most) out of the three of them in her efforts to keep the light safe. I'm not asking for much, don't want the scene to drag, but would it really have been so hard for Eraqus to throw her a bone?

Maybe he could've told Aqua how much he was proud of her for fighting so long, and that her struggles have allowed her to mature into an even better Keyblade Master than him (in principle). Aqua's whole arc was about recognizing what it was that made her a worthy Master, and believing that she's strong enough to overcome the various hardships thrown her way. The problem is that KH3 never gave her a moment to affirm this growth to herself or anyone else (in fact, it does the opposite), and a bit of acknowledgement and praise from Eraqus could've at least helped do that to some degree.
 
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SweetYetSalty

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Give Dilan and Aeleaus their voices back.
I actually wouldn't mind hearing Dilan's thoughts on things post the Organization. Reflect on his actions as Xaldin and all to see if he regrets what he did like Ienzo seems to. He and Aeleaus are likely to remain Radiant Garden background decorations though. If someone ever invades the castle you'll see them at the invaders feet defeated to sell the intruder is a threat, ala Riku destroying Captain Shang. Even if Shang always sucked as a fighter...
 

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There’s also the fact the made xehanort dumb where Sora Donald and goofy trapped him in his own body for the final battle, like how? This guys outsmarted everyone for like 10 years and have always been one step ahead and always had a backup plan so how can he let his guard down like that so easily when his enemies standing right behind him making their own plan? I wish the final battle just gets rewritten in general and not have Xehanort be defeated that easily by just Sora Donald and Goofy.
 

SuperSaiyanSora

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Pretty sure that "ganging up on a dying old man and brutally beating him to death with 12 other people" isn't Sora's style, nor anyone else's. Not even Xehanort would do that lol. Sure he killed Kairi but that was a quick strike, not a merciless beatdown.

Also revenge isn't always a good motivator for things and I think at that point nobody that would want revenge needed it anymore
If there's one thing I've noticed... It's that fans wouldn't have been satisfied until they literally curb-stomped that man into the pavement. People wanted this instead:



...I mean it's not like he doesn't deserve it lmao, but nobody there except for maybe Axel and Roxas would do that. Plus by the time everyone got there, my dude was already limping and was on his way out (but STILL wanted to go another round lmao).

Also, tornado of heartless was strong enough to solo all the Guardians of Light. No-diff.

Not the choice I probably would've made.
I finally have a place to make this comment, because I've been holding it in ever since I first saw that scene, but...

As a One Piece fan, I immediately thought, "Wack, Zoro could've taken that Heartless Tornado out easily..."

I still feel this in my heart.
 

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I'd argue that Axel and Roxas wouldn't even do that. Roxas's beef was with Saix and Axel's, if he had one, would probably be with Xemnas. But yeah, it wasn't the time nor the place and an all-out beatdown isn't really necessary all the time despite what most media may have you think. Hell, my favorite season of the Rockman.EXE anime (Stream) ended not with a brutal beatdown on the main antagonist but with friendship and compassion. There was no final battle there, not really.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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Roxas's beef was with Saix and Axel's, if he had one, would probably be with Xemnas
Lol, think you got that backwards. Axel was the main one who had beef with Siax (see: every scene the two shared ever, lol). Roxas' grudge was more with Xemnas than anyone else, really.
 

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I would like Ventus to get a better resolution. He reasll doesn't do much in the game. His big thing is getting woken up, which is really Sora and Aqua's achievement.

All Ven himself does is break through the barrier to repel Vanitas, and help bring Terra back by telling him he kept his promise, while suspended helplessly in mid air.

In the whole series, the best Ventus has achieved is little better than a draw against Vanitas which nearly destroyed his heart. Maybe I would have liked him to have more of a role destroying Vanitas or something else to indicate increased strength
 

alexis.anagram

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What exactly was her reward for enduring those 10+ years in the RoD? She gets her Keyblade randomly stripped from her, is screwed over as an afterthought by someone who shouldn't have even been there to begin with, and consequently loses any and all agency she could've had in her eventual return to the RoL (even managing to take an L to Sora, while also actively resisting the salvation her whole arc has had her fighting to achieve). Then she miraculously goes on to fail in every task she was brought back to complete (undermining the whole point of her rescue), loses every battle she's in, and now in the end, she has to be "looked after" by the person who's mess she had to sacrifice herself attempting to remedy, too? Where's the respect in any of this? Where's her agency? Where's her impact?
The whole game is super patronizing towards and dismissive of the women in the series and the emotional arcs they have either initiated or ought to have seen to completion, Aqua just gets the worst of it because she has the most screen time in action. From having Sora tell her she needs to rest after her recovery from the RoD and being basically proven right, to having her leadership role revoked almost as quickly as it's indicated in the text when Sora walks right in front of her to insist on taking out MX himself, to this scene with Eraqus, the writing is just transparently contemptuous of her agency and her triumphs as a survivor in the KH narrative. Kairi's treatment is obviously just as bad and then worse (I still cringe when she freezes against Terranort and Sora has to run over and shield her), while Namine is erased from the story altogether, and Xion is limited to a shallow one-scene retread of the exact conflict which she already overcame-- and which coincidentally demands a total revocation of her agency (only to be immediately overshadowed by Roxas's HEROIC RETURN from the heavens).

Contrast that with Terra basically dragging himself back from the darkness on pure willpower (and, sure, some help from Sora's magic key), Ventus's return being framed as a rescue of the person who was supposed to be rescuing him, Riku's sacrifice for Sora, or the tone of Roxas's aforementioned big moment, and while it's fair to say that virtually all of the main protagonists in KH3 get shafted in the long run, there's a distinct difference in how the men are portrayed in conflict and how the women are shown responding (or not, as the case may be). The delineation is that through adversity men are strengthened and made to prove their mettle while women are made vulnerable and "damaged," their agency easily usurped and coopted.

So, yes, the scene with Eraqus is just an extension of that trend, and it's reflective of how infantilized Aqua is by the end of this thing. She's yet another "light in the darkness" for a guy who ascribes his salvation to her passive purity, and arguably her only other significant contribution to the story is helping another guy get a cool moment by putting herself in danger. And then Eraqus tells Terra to take care of her, and I guess if we just ignore all of the context surrounding that comment it's only a generic sort of snub instead of an affirmatively condescending cap on a series of misguided attempts to secure her feminine nature as suitably unthreatening and deferential to the male gaze. She's a badass who had some strong moments but don't worry guys, she still needs you to take care of her!

In short I would like ReMind to place Kanemaki back on the writing staff.

When you spend a near-decade having your villain act like a smug, remorseless psycho and having his main victims go through the wringer - don't be shocked if most of your audience wants ^this^ instead of Talk No Jutsu.
I mean it's a pretty funny state of affairs when the best argument in defense of the ending as it was delivered is, "Wait, you actually expected all of the protagonists who drove this saga to have a hand in the resolution to the story?"
 

SweetYetSalty

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The whole game is super patronizing towards and dismissive of the women in the series and the emotional arcs they have either initiated or ought to have seen to completion, Aqua just gets the worst of it because she has the most screen time in action. From having Sora tell her she needs to rest after her recovery from the RoD and being basically proven right, to having her leadership role revoked almost as quickly as it's indicated in the text when Sora walks right in front of her to insist on taking out MX himself, to this scene with Eraqus, the writing is just transparently contemptuous of her agency and her triumphs as a survivor in the KH narrative. Kairi's treatment is obviously just as bad and then worse (I still cringe when she freezes against Terranort and Sora has to run over and shield her), while Namine is erased from the story altogether, and Xion is limited to a shallow one-scene retread of the exact conflict which she already overcame-- and which coincidentally demands a total revocation of her agency (only to be immediately overshadowed by Roxas's HEROIC RETURN from the heavens).

Contrast that with Terra basically dragging himself back from the darkness on pure willpower (and, sure, some help from Sora's magic key), Ventus's return being framed as a rescue of the person who was supposed to be rescuing him, Riku's sacrifice for Sora, or the tone of Roxas's aforementioned big moment, and while it's fair to say that virtually all of the main protagonists in KH3 get shafted in the long run, there's a distinct difference in how the men are portrayed in conflict and how the women are shown responding (or not, as the case may be). The delineation is that through adversity men are strengthened and made to prove their mettle while women are made vulnerable and "damaged," their agency easily usurped and coopted.

So, yes, the scene with Eraqus is just an extension of that trend, and it's reflective of how infantilized Aqua is by the end of this thing. She's yet another "light in the darkness" for a guy who ascribes his salvation to her passive purity, and arguably her only other significant contribution to the story is helping another guy get a cool moment by putting herself in danger. And then Eraqus tells Terra to take care of her, and I guess if we just ignore all of the context surrounding that comment it's only a generic sort of snub instead of an affirmatively condescending cap on a series of misguided attempts to secure her feminine nature as suitably unthreatening and deferential to the male gaze. She's a badass who had some strong moments but don't worry guys, she still needs you to take care of her!

In short I would like ReMind to place Kanemaki back on the writing staff.


I mean it's a pretty funny state of affairs when the best argument in defense of the ending as it was delivered is, "Wait, you actually expected all of the protagonists who drove this saga to have a hand in the resolution to the story?"
The treatment of the females in KH3 bugged me greatly. But hey, now that Kairi is getting her time to shine in ReMind, maybe the others will get something too!
 

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I dont understand how anyone can complain about Kairi not putting up a fight against Xehanort when he did this to ven who had armor and 1000x her experience

 

SuperSaiyanSora

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When you spend a near-decade having your villain act like a smug, remorseless psycho and having his main victims go through the wringer - don't be shocked if most of your audience wants ^this^ instead of Talk No Jutsu.
But it wasn't a Talk no Jutsu, because Sora kicked Xehanort's ass multiple times and was gonna go AGAIN but the guy was dying on his feet. And plus, TnJ is when the villain suddenly has a change of heart or can otherwise be reasoned with. Xehanort died still believing that he was right and had zero remorse for his actions, this isn't a Nagato or Tobi situation at all.

Sure, you could argue that they all should've went and had one final showdown with Xehanort, but by the time they got there, he was already on his way to the afterlife. Will ReMIND change it? Who knows. But like others have said earlier, none of them were gonna curb stomp the man into the pavement, as much as Xehanort warrants that kind of response.

I'd argue that Axel and Roxas wouldn't even do that. Roxas's beef was with Saix and Axel's, if he had one, would probably be with Xemnas. But yeah, it wasn't the time nor the place and an all-out beatdown isn't really necessary all the time despite what most media may have you think. Hell, my favorite season of the Rockman.EXE anime (Stream) ended not with a brutal beatdown on the main antagonist but with friendship and compassion. There was no final battle there, not really.
Roxas's issue was Xemnas, and Axel had issues with Saix (for obvious reasons). But agreed, it just wasn't the time. If they got there earlier, absolutely. In fact, the final showdown where Xehanort is using the X-Blade and KOs Sora would have been the opportune time for that kind of fight to happen. But it didn't. It is what it is.

One thing I don't like that seems to be a common thought is that Xehanort was redeemed. He wasn't, not at all. He conceded defeat because he was already dying and even more Keyblade wielders showed up... And it was Eraqus that made him do it, Xehanort was gonna again. Eraqus might've "forgiven" Xehanort (and we don't know if that's ACTUALLY what Eraqus is doing there), but that doesn't excuse every deed he's done. I think in that sense, Eraqus realizes that he was pretty similar to Xehanort, but on the opposite side of the coin.
 

alexis.anagram

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I dont understand how anyone can complain about Kairi not putting up a fight against Xehanort when he did this to ven who had armor and 1000x her experience
It's not a question of the internal logic surrounding the power disparity between Kairi and Xehanort, but one of writing her into that scenario in the first place. People don't take as great of an issue with Ven's loss to Xehanort because it's integral to directing the resolution of his arc in that game; Kairi's, by contrast, is cut short and she has not part in any of the events that follow.

And plus, TnJ is when the villain suddenly has a change of heart or can otherwise be reasoned with.
This is precisely the role that Eraqus plays in closing the conflict, which results in Xehanort willingly handing his X-Blade over to Sora with a smile on his face. It's a clear gesture that he has conceded victory, and it's not difficult to ascertain that he recognizes that he was wrong; the framing and tone of the scene is sufficient to communicate that without him stating it out loud.

But FWIW, he essentially does. The entire point of Xehanort's last monologue as it pertains to his personal motivation is that he perceives the world as being "corrupted" by the darkness living in the hearts of those who are weak, and seeks to purify it on his authority as someone with great strength which he believes (or wants to believe) entitles him to lead the destiny of others. Before Eraqus even enters the frame, he's smiling at Sora and drafting the reflective comparison to "his old friend," which is the first indication that he is being reminded of his own foolishness. When Eraqus "checkmates" him, the ensuing flashback demonstrates that Xehanort never saw himself as a natural leader, or a "defender" of the worlds: all his efforts have been an attempt to prove a case to himself against all of the evidence running contrary. Because the ideological line has already been drawn from Eraqus to Sora, when Xehanort offers the Keyblade to Sora, it's a concession that his ideology has won out: it's not even a remotely begrudging action ("Well done.")

The idea that he still believes he was in the right is not supported by text or context; the one defiant line he has ("No, I can still do this!") is a visceral response to Eraqus's appearance, which puts the writing directly on the wall for him (and, intentionally, the audience, because the chess game has been a framing device for the entire story). But, again, Eraqus's whole purpose is to disarm that reaction, and Xehanort concedes as a result. He is, in a word or two, "reasoned with." The scene is deliberately plotted to convey this outcome: Xehanort accepts defeat, and in so doing he's reminded that he was never in the right to begin with. Handing off the X-Blade is the cap to this, because he specifically and intentionally gives it to the one person whom he knows has the ability to undo the damage he's wrought. It's as close to an act of penance as his last moments of life will allow him-- and not nearly enough to account for the role he's played throughout the story.

It's a bit like if Vader had killed Leia, fought Luke, was beaten within an inch of his life, had to have Obi Wan Force project to talk him down, and was like, "Well now I see how wrong I was!" and handed Luke his lightsaber before fading into the Force with a giggle. And there was no Emperor representing a superior threat (and avenue for redemption) with which to contend.
 
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I dont understand how anyone can complain about Kairi not putting up a fight against Xehanort when he did this to ven who had armor and 1000x her experience

I'm not sure how this is a defense for Kairi not putting up a fight. Ven at least tried to fight Xehanort and, right after this scene, unfroze himself through sheer willpower to save his friend and finally destroy Vanitas. Yes, it was Vanitas, not Xehanort that Ven fought afterward but my points here are 1: He at least tried to fight. 2: He has plenty of shining moments, one of which occurred right after this scene.

That entire Terra scene was a disaster from a character perspective in general. All the characters were so ill-prepared for that; Mickey and Riku specifically warned everyone that he was their 13th vessel and yet they, along with everyone else, allowed themselves to get nearly killed by him. But with regards to Kairi specifically, this is adding insult to injury because it was underlined in one of her cutscenes that she and Lea were being trained in a place where time has no meaning, yet we see no indication of that at all in her scenes. Lea isn't much better, but he's had plenty of shining moments at least. Likewise, everyone else eventually does, or has already, stepped up to the plate in some fashion.

The whole Kairi saving Sora through her power as a princess does not feel like an organic plot point and just raised more questions and potential plot-holes. Why was she able to keep her power while the other 6 passed on their power? Never once does the game offer an explanation, so it just comes across as a repeated plot-point from the first game, not earned, and a copout excuse to say "See, she's not completely useless."

My overall point I guess is that there is no excuse for how Kairi was written in this game, especially when the last couple have been building her up to be an integral part of the action as a somewhat competent fighter. What we appear to be getting in the DLC with Kairi is what should've been in the base game, to begin with, I think. She's had no real character progression and is always just there to say "I want to help and not wait around any more."
 
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That entire Terra scene was a disaster from a character perspective in general. All the characters were so ill-prepared for that; Mickey and Riku specifically warned everyone that he was their 13th vessel and yet they, along with everyone else, allowed themselves to get nearly killed by him. But with regards to Kairi specifically, this is adding insult to injury because it was underlined in one of her cutscenes that she and Lea were being trained in a place where time has no meaning, yet we see no indication of that at all in her scenes. Lea isn't much better, but he's had plenty of shining moments at least. Likewise, everyone else eventually does, or has already, stepped up to the plate in some fashion.

The whole Kairi saving Sora through her power as a princess does not feel like an organic plot point and just raised more questions and potential plot-holes. Why was she able to keep her power while the other 6 passed on their power? Never once does the game offer an explanation, so it just comes across as a repeated plot-point from the first game, not earned, and a copout excuse to say "See, she's not completely useless."
Honestly if you can't believe Kairi had the capacity to save Sora I don't know how you accept even half of the stuff that happens in these games lol.

Lea and Kairi have only so much they can learn from each other or even Merlin, but the Merlins book thing was done in such an odd way I don't know how much they actually progressed during their time there.

As far as I'm aware Terra, Aqua, and Ven were forced to fight him there and they had no idea what kind of powers he had.
 
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Honestly if you can't believe Kairi had the capacity to save Sora I don't know how you accept even half of the stuff that happens in these games lol.

Lea and Kairi have only so much they can learn from each other or even Merlin, but the Merlins book thing was done in such an odd way I don't know how much they actually progressed during their time there.

As far as I'm aware Terra, Aqua, and Ven were forced to fight him there and they had no idea what kind of powers he had.
I never said I didn't believe it: that's not even a question. I said it came across as a cop out plot point not earned. If the characters can't learn from Merlin, that's not an excuse, it's more bad writing. There's a war approaching and they are sent to train with someone who can only teach them so much in a place where time is infinite?
 
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