Dark Road ► Xehanort Is Player's Nobody?

[Face My Fears]

I watched the cutscenes for Dark Road and the very first one felt reminiscent to when Roxas was waking up at the start of KH2. Xehanort was having dreams of "Player" from KHUX, then he wakes up. Of course, this goes back to an older theory people used to throw around: the fact that Xehanort's name - without the X - is an anagram for Another (the password Xemnas used in KH2)/No Heart (the name of his armour). "Another" also can be a reference to "Another Side, Another Story" which was about nobodies (Roxas) and No Heart is the literal definition of a nobody.

The interesting thing is that if Xehanort was the first nobody created - that may explain how he knew that nobodies regrew hearts - because it happened to him. I also found it strange that there was practically no details about his life on Destiny Islands. Ansem just showed up and opened a corridor of darkness for him. All we see of him on Destiny Islands is sleeping on the beach alone. He has no friends or family. It could be that he was born on that island and no one else was around?

We've only ever seen one scenario where characters has visions/dreams of another's life - and it involved nobodies' and their somebodies.

 

[Zettaflare]

There were some details about his life on the islands though. He gained a reputation as the boy who left Destiny Islands as told by a younger Riku. People had to have known him for that to become a legend.

 

[Chie]

I keep getting interested in these Player theories but then have to realize that they all by necessity involve making it so the female player is non-canon. Is that something Nomura would do? Say that if you're a girl you aren't canon? Well, the introductory cutscene already kinda does, so I guess so. This is something I seriously won't defend, though.

 

[Foxycian]

Don’t nobodies look exactly like their original selfs? If anything we can say Xehanort May have the memeory’s of the player.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

There is another scenario where characters have visions/dreams of another's life which was already shown even back in KH 1 and that is when they carry another heart inside themselves. Sora had visions of Kairi's memories when her heart was within him.
That he had Ven's heart too and no visions/dreams of his life can be explained by Ven' s heart being still damaged and sealed, it didn't start to become active again until Dream Drop Distance.

A third possible scenario are also copied and/or planted memories as was shown in both Chain of Memories and KH 2. In Chain of Memories Vexen used memory samples of Riku and injected/planted them in the Replica.
In KH 2 the entire prologue and the "Roxas" we experience there was based on implanted memories put into him by DiZ/Ansem the Wise. It's only towards the end of the prologue when Roxas starts to regain his true memories.

Thanks to Nomura introducing multiple concepts it is not as clear which case we have exactly at hand with Xehanort and "player". It might also be an entirely new, before unheard concept because Nomura likes doing that too.

 

[Zettaflare]

I'd have an easier time believing the Player was Xehanort's ancestor. Or Xehanort himself was a sort of reincarnation of him/her

 

[Face My Fears]

I keep getting interested in these Player theories but then have to realize that they all by necessity involve making it so the female player is non-canon. Is that something Nomura would do? Say that if you're a girl you aren't canon? Well, the introductory cutscene already kinda does, so I guess so. This is something I seriously won't defend, though.

I never thought of it that way because I never saw games where you can select the gender of the character make that created character "canon" in a situation like this. Maybe Xehanort has memories from the male "Player" and there is a female "Player" out there? If he wants to do another flashback scene with "Player", Nomura should just have a male and female avatar in Xehanort's dreams.

Don’t nobodies look exactly like their original selfs? If anything we can say Xehanort May have the memeory’s of the player.

Well Roxas and Namine don't look like Sora/Kairi, so there's that... but they are "special" nobodies.

There is another scenario where characters have visions/dreams of another's life which was already shown even back in KH 1 and that is when they carry another heart inside themselves. Sora had visions of Kairi's memories when her heart was within him.
That he had Ven's heart too and no visions/dreams of his life can be explained by Ven' s heart being still damaged and sealed, it didn't start to become active again until Dream Drop Distance.

A third possible scenario are also copied and/or planted memories as was shown in both Chain of Memories and KH 2. In Chain of Memories Vexen used memory samples of Riku and injected/planted them in the Replica.
In KH 2 the entire prologue and the "Roxas" we experience there was based on implanted memories put into him by DiZ/Ansem the Wise. It's only towards the end of the prologue when Roxas starts to regain his true memories.

Thanks to Nomura introducing multiple concepts it is not as clear which case we have exactly at hand with Xehanort and "player". It might also be an entirely new, before unheard concept because Nomura likes doing that too.

I'm starting to wonder if Player's heart went into Xehanort? The common factor with hearts finding another host is Destiny Islands. Ven - without knowing Sora - went to Destiny Islands and found him. Maybe Player's heart found its way into Xehanort?

 

[Sign]

FeMC is the only MC, don't @ me

I'm starting to wonder if Player's heart went into Xehanort? The common factor with hearts finding another host is Destiny Islands. Ven - without knowing Sora - went to Destiny Islands and found him.

Ven followed his connection back to Sora, so it wasn't like he just hopped into a random stranger.

There is definitely something more to Player's connection with Xehanort, especially if we take into account Player's own vision of what is presumably an event from KH3. Something that can't be as easily explained as "Person A is Person B's counterpart."

 

[Face My Fears]

FeMC is the only MC, don't @ me



Ven followed his connection back to Sora, so it wasn't like he just hopped into a random stranger.

There is definitely something more to Player's connection with Xehanort, especially if we take into account Player's own vision of what is presumably an event from KH3. Something that can't be as easily explained as "Person A is Person B's counterpart."

What was Ven's connection to Sora? Wasn't it only Terra and Aqua that met them? I thought Sora was a random stranger to Ven lol.

 

[Zettaflare]

What was Ven's connection to Sora? Wasn't it only Terra and Aqua that met them? I thought Sora was a random stranger to Ven lol.

Think Sign is referring to Sora healing Ven's fractured heart at the beginning of BBS. That was their first meeting

 

[Sign]

What was Ven's connection to Sora? Wasn't it only Terra and Aqua that met them? I thought Sora was a random stranger to Ven lol.

You may recall that Ven struggled to survive after Xehanort forcibly extracted his darkness four years prior to BBS. After realizing that he didn't have much time left, Xehanort brought him to Destiny Islands to spend his final moments there. At that time, Sora's heart was descending from Kingdom Hearts or wherever to enter his newborn body. Sora offered to let Ven join hearts to fill the void that Vanitas had left, which ultimately saved his life and led to Vanitas taking on Sora's appearance.

IDK if you didn't play BBS or just forgot but this was one of the first scenes of the game.

 

[Face My Fears]

You may recall that Ven struggled to survive after Xehanort forcibly extracted his darkness four years prior to BBS. After realizing that he didn't have much time left, Xehanort brought him to Destiny Islands to spend his final moments there. At that time, Sora's heart was descending from Kingdom Hearts or wherever to enter his newborn body. Sora offered to let Ven join hearts to fill the void that Vanitas had left, which ultimately saved his life and led to Vanitas taking on Sora's appearance.

IDK if you didn't play BBS or just forgot but this was one of the first scenes of the game.

I remember the scene, but I don't remember Sora being there or any connection being established during the scene. I haven't played BbS or watched that scene in a long time, so I guess I have to rewatch. Thanks.

 

[Face My Fears]

I think that it's only in a scene at the end when Ven's heart goes to rest in Sora's that it's made explicit that it was the newborn Sora's heart that healed Ven's at the start.

Edit: Here's the scene, at the 3:00 mark is where Ven says it was Sora's heart before.

I didn't get that Ven was talking about Sora's newborn heart saving Ven when he was weakened by Xehanort in that video at all. I always thought the second chance Ven was talking about was at that very moment where Sora saved him.

Is there anywhere else that actually says that it was Sora's newborn heart that saved Ven when Xehanort split Ven and Vanitas apart?

 

[The_Echo]

Aside from Xehanort being a Nobody of anyone being more or less impossible, I think that in a macro scale we're done with Nobodies as a major plot element.

Whatever Xehanort's connection to Player is, it's one that goes both ways, given Player's visions of Xehanort's Keyblade War.
However... that only makes things more confusing. Xehanort had these dreams repeatedly during his life on Destiny Islands, which means this is a plot thread independent of his connections and adventures as a Keyblade wielder from Scala.

Also, am I wrong in remembering that Player's dreams were given to him by the Nightmare Chirithy?

When Darkness said that the seventh Princess world wasn't summoned on purpose, my immediate thought was Radiant Garden.
But perhaps he meant Destiny Islands, and the information being protected was related to Xehanort, not Kairi.
Maybe Player connects to Xehanort via his data copy inside the Book of Prophecies.

I don't really have a concrete line of thought here, just a bunch of conflicting ideas.

 

[Chaser]

I didn't get that Ven was talking about Sora's newborn heart saving Ven when he was weakened by Xehanort in that video at all. I always thought the second chance Ven was talking about was at that very moment where Sora saved him.

Is there anywhere else that actually says that it was Sora's newborn heart that saved Ven when Xehanort split Ven and Vanitas apart?

The dialogue ties in with the opening of the game, where Ventus was saved by a newborn heart. Sora isn't even aware of Ven's second chance in the scene above, questioning it with "I did?," and then Ventus says he has to go back to sleep. This all points to the conversation being about the first time Sora saved Ventus, which is what the game opened up with.

If you don't think it was Sora's newborn heart that saved Ventus 4 years prior to the start of Birth by Sleep, whose heart do you believe it was?

 

[Face My Fears]

The dialogue ties in with the opening of the game, where Ventus was saved by a newborn heart. Sora isn't even aware of Ven's second chance in the scene above, questioning it with "I did?," and then Ventus says he has to go back to sleep. This all points to the conversation being about the first time Sora saved Ventus, which is what the game opened up with.

If you don't think it was Sora's newborn heart that saved Ventus 4 years prior to the start of Birth by Sleep, whose heart do you believe it was?

I'm not arguing that it wasn't Sora's heart that saved him, it's the newborn part that is confusing to me. It just seems weird to me that Sora's newborn heart - straight from Kingdom Hearts - would house Ven's broken heart for four years, then leave for the events of BbS. I feel like if that was the case, it should have been explained way better because this is literally the first time I'm hearing that Ven was in Sora's heart twice (the first time being when Sora was just born).

But that comment from Vanitas about Sora being the piece that Ven needed to be whole again did confuse me, so I guess it makes sense. Normally when KH is vague, I can at least get it without someone telling me, but this is really out there.

 

[Sign]

I didn't get that Ven was talking about Sora's newborn heart saving Ven when he was weakened by Xehanort in that video at all. I always thought the second chance Ven was talking about was at that very moment where Sora saved him.

Is there anywhere else that actually says that it was Sora's newborn heart that saved Ven when Xehanort split Ven and Vanitas apart?

BBS Ultimania

Birth by Sleep - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider

Kingdom Hearts Insider - the largest kingdom hearts community and news resource on the web!

www.khinsider.com

-- Considering the conversation between Sora and Ventus in the ending of the Last Episode, is this saying that the "just-born heart" that Ventus connects with in the opening is Sora's?

Nomura: Yes. At first we supposed that it could be Sora before he was born, but because of opinions from overseas that "the heart doesn't exist until after birth", we discarded that portrayal.

I'm not arguing that it wasn't Sora's heart that saved him, it's the newborn part that is confusing to me. It just seems weird to me that Sora's newborn heart - straight from Kingdom Hearts - would house Ven's broken heart for four years, then leave for the events of BbS. I feel like if that was the case, it should have been explained way better because this is literally the first time I'm hearing that Ven was in Sora's heart twice (the first time being when Sora was just born).

He didn't house Ven's heart, they just linked together. It wasn't until the end of BBS that Ven actually entered Sora's heart.

Also, am I wrong in remembering that Player's dreams were given to him by the Nightmare Chirithy?

The normal Chirithy gave Player the dream of the Foretellers and MoM at least. I'm blanking if there were any other times where these were acknowledged in case there was more than one person delivering them, but I figure this Chirithy was probably responsible for all of them?

 

[zander1995]

There's another possibility: Xehanort's heart could have been the heart of a keyblade wielder who perished in the war. Once the worlds were remade, his heart was restored to a body, leaving him with vague memories of another life.

I think he'll probably have witnessed player's final moments rather than being player, because him being player seems too complicated even for Nomura.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

There is another scenario where characters have visions/dreams of another's life

I feel like this is going to be a subject that is going to be addressed in subsequent KH releases, especially with the concept of Worldlines. It feel as though Yozora has a connection with Sora and it's the reason as to why he could find Sora in the Final World: because of his connection with him. I think that the ability of having visions/dreams (more inclined to dreams) can be developed into actually being physically present. Maybe Yozora wasn't physically present in the Final World, but rather, transported his... whatever and contacted Sora.

Maybe this is why Xehanort has so much knowledge about the Keyblade War: he indirectly experienced through the Player.

 

[zander1995]

[snip]

With how many elements of Versus XIII Nomura is choosing to rework for Kingdom Hearts, dreams are definitely a likely one. Dreams were supposed to be an element of FFXV, most likely a holdover from Nomura's version, but were cut sometime late in development.

With phase 1 exploring the heart in dozens of ways, phase 2 exploring dreams would be interesting, and he could definitely connect that with DDD.