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Xehanort's Destiny in KH3



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Evello

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So here's some fun observation/speculation: everyone remembers how YMX made a big deal about how he may have forgotten his future self and all his evil plans, but his path was "etched into his heart" and that led him into seeking the outside world, right?

Well, how about we extend that logic into KH3. Let's make the fairly safe assumption that at some point in KH3 the 13 seekers of darkness are united, but eventually Xehanort is thwarted by Sora in some way, shape, or form. All the past forms of Xehanort cannot be destroyed, because they have to survive in order to fulfill their roles in KH1 KH2, etc. They return back to the time they were taken from, and their memories are wiped.

Well if you apply YMX's logic, they just witnessed the downfall of the the last plan of the true Xehanort at the hands of Sora, so their path to destruction lies in the depths of their hearts. Somewhere deep down, they all know, starting from the very beginning (YMX is included here), that Sora will inevitably squash their ambitions. Ansem, Xemnas, all of them. They all know subconsciously that they will fail, and that it will be Sora who ruins every one of their plans. All those battles that Sora fought in KH1, KH2, and DDD were fought against men who knew in the depths of their hearts that they were going to lose. That they'd already lost.

If you ask me, that really gives Xehanort a rather tragic twist. He was just an ordinary boy when he was shown his own inevitable future as a murdering psychopath, and was forced by his older self to join in his evil-doing. Then he was later shown and made to rewatch again and again his own downfall, all the while (between visions) unknowingly acting out the script set before him to lead to that very downfall. He never had a choice. Fate really never was left to chance, eh?

And even if KH3 goes somewhere completely different, and the 13 seekers are never assembled and defeated, this complication could still exist for Ansem and Xemnas. In DDD they were made painfully aware of the fact that they were both going to fail and be killed by Sora. However after DDD they returned to their times in order to actually have their fight with Sora. Not the best pump-up session ever.

What do you guys think; will KH3 address this at all? Would it remove some of the heroism of Sora and co. if the villains they defeated already knew they were going to lose? Or would the fact that Sora was fated to save the world make him all the more heroic? What about Xehanort? How would you feel about him?
 

Seighart

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I thought the same in both instances...it sucks that he knows he's going to end up being defeated. He did say he'd do anything to gain the knowledge he wanted and...i just feel bad for Xehanort.
 

Luap

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You're forgetting that they said that the future is a complete mystery. While in his own time, the goals are etched into YMX's heart, the future is out of reach. He'll feel the need to go to the outside world, and to eventually split himself into all these people, but he'll never know what will exactly happen. That's why MX still tried to create the X-Blade in BBS. He didn't know he'd fail.
 

Memory Master

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Well as someone who can relate to Xehanort, the frustration of living in a world you find to be flawed and knowing the way to destroy it and bring about your ideal world, is enough to make a man like Xehanort do almost anything. Even if it means willingly allowing yourself to constantly fail along the way to win in the end.

Some people accept the flaws of the world (Sora and his friends) and some people view the acceptance of a flawed world as madness, and so will do anything create their perfect world and erase any annoying flaws in the world no matter what the cost (Xehanort). Given the chance to have the power and knowledge Xehanort does, I can't deny the path he has followed would be a tempting one to take.

I would love the chance to speak to Xehanort myself, I think he and I would find alot in common with each other.
 

Sephiroth0812

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What Luap said is correct, the goals are there but MX does not know of the outcome of every single of his plans.

As for pitying Xehanort, nope, not a chance. I appreciate him as a really well thought out villain, but I despise his goals and methods completely.
One who uses living beings as tools, has no empathy and no value of life other than his own deserves no pity.
 

Love Machine

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An example would be when Axel thwarts MX's plan in the World That Never Was.
 

Evello

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You're forgetting that they said that the future is a complete mystery. While in his own time, the goals are etched into YMX's heart, the future is out of reach. He'll feel the need to go to the outside world, and to eventually split himself into all these people, but he'll never know what will exactly happen. That's why MX still tried to create the X-Blade in BBS. He didn't know he'd fail.
Yes, they won't remember any specific events, but it showed that some of their resulting feelings lingered, like Young Xehanort's ambition. So if they were to learn of their own failure, you would think it would take a little bit of their drive away. As they returned to their world it would be like going knowingly to their own death. I would imagine that feeling could carry over. And I'm guessing there could be some residual hatred for Sora mixed in.

MX creating the X-Blade in BbS (and being downright obsessed with doing so) is a pretty good counterexample, so I suppose this conflict might not exist, however the time between YMX learning of his failure and living it out is huge, while Ansem and Xemnas could very well be going straight from the future to their deaths.
 

Original Sin

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"It is the future which lies beyond my sight."

A version of yourself has to exist in that time, in order to time travel to it, right? Does the future "lie beyond his sight", because he's already been defeated there?

I hate time travel...
 

Dannydecay

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Time travel isn't horrible, it just leads to A LOT of speculation. At least it does for me. However, I do like the fact that events cannot be changed at all and I think that's what makes the time travel aspect more bearable.
 

Decrith

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^ I have to agree, time travel isn't always horrible, and in Kingdom Hearts' case, its not. For starters, time travel in KH is limited, paradoxes can't happen and events can't be changed.
 

Villen

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What Luap said is correct, the goals are there but MX does not know of the outcome of every single of his plans.

As for pitying Xehanort, nope, not a chance. I appreciate him as a really well thought out villain, but I despise his goals and methods completely.
One who uses living beings as tools, has no empathy and no value of life other than his own deserves no pity.
What do you despise about his goals, exactly? His methods are really bad, yes, an extremist at it's worst, but the though of having a balanced world is not bad in my view. Also, I felt the same way about Xemnas when KH2 came out and we thought their goals involved only having hearts for themselves.
 

Zul

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Well as someone who can relate to Xehanort, the frustration of living in a world you find to be flawed and knowing the way to destroy it and bring about your ideal world, is enough to make a man like Xehanort do almost anything. Even if it means willingly allowing yourself to constantly fail along the way to win in the end.

Some people accept the flaws of the world (Sora and his friends) and some people view the acceptance of a flawed world as madness, and so will do anything create their perfect world and erase any annoying flaws in the world no matter what the cost (Xehanort). Given the chance to have the power and knowledge Xehanort does, I can't deny the path he has followed would be a tempting one to take.

I would love the chance to speak to Xehanort myself, I think he and I would find alot in common with each other.

If you had any understanding of Xehanort's character, you know the possibilities of your hypothetical interaction with him would be.

1. Being ingored by him.
2. Being killed by him.
3. Being used by him.

His character archetype is that of a sociopath madman, not someone to be admired in the slightest.
 

Memory Master

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If you had any understanding of Xehanort's character, you know the possibilities of your hypothetical interaction with him would be.

1. Being ingored by him.
2. Being killed by him.
3. Being used by him.



His character archetype is that of a sociopath madman, not someone to be admired in the slightest.

Sociopath madman? Please Xehanort is a far more complex character than that. Look I completely agree his methods are completely evil. No one should have the right to take over another's heart and turn them into a different person (That would be like doing the same to someone's soul in real, if you believe in a soul that is. Or if you don't then we'll go with the brain as a real life example.)

I would be totaly against using Xehanort's methods to achieve my goals. But the actual goal Xehanort has in mind isn't so far out there that it's pure evil, and certainly not the desires of a madman.

The way I understand it, Xehanorts goals are as followed:

1. Forge the complete X-Blade
2. Upon the forging of the X-Blade the complete true KH is returned to the realm of light.
3. Use the X-Blade to unlock KH thus uniting the worlds into one world again.
4. The worlds united once more, most likely some will get greedy and want the light of KH for themselves again, thus sparking a new Keyblade War.
5. At the end of the second Keyblade War the world will be consumed in darkness just like the first time thus replacing the current order of light with one of darkness.
6. With the old order destroyed, Xehanort will merge with KH and thus will have the power to create a brand new world order made in his image (I'm assuming by turning everyone in the universe into a Xehanort) and according to his vision (A world where light and dark are balanced).
7. Rule this new world as a god.

I think that is pretty much the general gists of it.

The point i'm making is that Xehanort is an extremist and yes his methods are certainly, but the desire to have the power to remake the world how we want, is something I'm sure everyone has wanted at some point in their. The chance to remake the world into our idea of a perfect paradise, is something everyone has thought about.

Everytime someone says they wish the world could be this way, or people could be this way or that way, or I wish something wouldn't happen. Those are deep desires we have to change the world to how we think it should be.

The difference between us and Xehanort, is that Xehanort knows how to make the world how he wants it and has a plan to make it happen. He's living out what all of us at one time has surely desired to do, to find a way to change the world to how we want it to be. And i'm not going to lie, if I was in Xehanort's position I would also try to make the world/universe how I wanted it to be. Though I would never use the methods Xehanort has used to achieve his goal. The only thing I can imagine myself doing that Xehanort did to achieve my goals, is trying to find a way to remain in the world of the living for as long as it takes to achieve my goals. Though unlike Xehanort I would find someone who would willingly let me take over their body, and once I had reached KH I would hand control of their body back to them and reward them with being second in command in my new world.

I'm sure if I could speak to the real Xehanort (If he does exist in some alternate KH based universe out there) then by expressing my understanding of his end goal, i'm sure I could find a well intentioned man under the the harsh exterior. Though we would disagree once we reached the subject of methods and how to go about achieving such goals.
 

Love Machine

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I'm sure if I could speak to the real Xehanort (If he does exist in some alternate KH based universe out there) then by expressing my understanding of his end goal, i'm sure I could find a well intentioned man under the the harsh exterior. Though we would disagree once we reached the subject of methods and how to go about achieving such goals.

No he'd outright kill you for bothering him.
 

Lanydx reborn

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Sociopath madman? Please Xehanort is a far more complex character than that. Look I completely agree his methods are completely evil. No one should have the right to take over another's heart and turn them into a different person (That would be like doing the same to someone's soul in real, if you believe in a soul that is. Or if you don't then we'll go with the brain as a real life example.)

I would be totaly against using Xehanort's methods to achieve my goals. But the actual goal Xehanort has in mind isn't so far out there that it's pure evil, and certainly not the desires of a madman.

The way I understand it, Xehanorts goals are as followed:

1. Forge the complete X-Blade
2. Upon the forging of the X-Blade the complete true KH is returned to the realm of light.
3. Use the X-Blade to unlock KH thus uniting the worlds into one world again.
4. The worlds united once more, most likely some will get greedy and want the light of KH for themselves again, thus sparking a new Keyblade War.
5. At the end of the second Keyblade War the world will be consumed in darkness just like the first time thus replacing the current order of light with one of darkness.
6. With the old order destroyed, Xehanort will merge with KH and thus will have the power to create a brand new world order made in his image (I'm assuming by turning everyone in the universe into a Xehanort) and according to his vision (A world where light and dark are balanced).
7. Rule this new world as a god.

I think that is pretty much the general gists of it.

The point i'm making is that Xehanort is an extremist and yes his methods are certainly, but the desire to have the power to remake the world how we want, is something I'm sure everyone has wanted at some point in their. The chance to remake the world into our idea of a perfect paradise, is something everyone has thought about.

Everytime someone says they wish the world could be this way, or people could be this way or that way, or I wish something wouldn't happen. Those are deep desires we have to change the world to how we think it should be.

The difference between us and Xehanort, is that Xehanort knows how to make the world how he wants it and has a plan to make it happen. He's living out what all of us at one time has surely desired to do, to find a way to change the world to how we want it to be. And i'm not going to lie, if I was in Xehanort's position I would also try to make the world/universe how I wanted it to be. Though I would never use the methods Xehanort has used to achieve his goal. The only thing I can imagine myself doing that Xehanort did to achieve my goals, is trying to find a way to remain in the world of the living for as long as it takes to achieve my goals. Though unlike Xehanort I would find someone who would willingly let me take over their body, and once I had reached KH I would hand control of their body back to them and reward them with being second in command in my new world.

I'm sure if I could speak to the real Xehanort (If he does exist in some alternate KH based universe out there) then by expressing my understanding of his end goal, i'm sure I could find a well intentioned man under the the harsh exterior. Though we would disagree once we reached the subject of methods and how to go about achieving such goals.
Yet here's the thing with that MM, he's acting out on selfish wills. He's not making the world better, he's only doing what he wants. He wants to play God and to hell with who or whatever gets in his way. What he is is Satan in human flesh. Also if someone where to do what he did, I would call you the scum of the earth for forgetting your fellow men and woman, for your own selfish gain. I can't wait for Sora to take his goals and cause them to fall to the ground crashing on him for all the people he's harmed.
 

Relix

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Xehanort is a selfish individual who thinks that because the world is not the way he envisioned it and because of his sociopathic curiosity he will do anything and everything to achieve this goal. Changing the world into your own image, no matter how "good" you think it is, is wrong. Imposing your will over others is wrong. Wishing war and devastation, separation and annihilation, is wrong. Xehanort is wrong.
 

Love Machine

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MX wants answers, and he just goes about it the easiest way possible, even if he fucks up peoples' lives.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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MX wants answers, and he just goes about it the easiest way possible, even if he kupos up peoples' lives.

And to what end will this accomplish? Once he knows everything, what is left? What does anyone do with that amount of knowledge? What is left when you are all that there is to the universe. His goal is fruitless.

He'll make everybody into himself, the universe into how he believes it should be. You know what he'll have done? He'll have created a universe just as isolated and "dull" as the world he left as a teenager.
 

Relix

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Knowledge obtained just to benefit one's self without the consideration and safety of others (who have clearly showed their disdain, concern, and horror of your goal) can't possibly be morally justified. I don't care how rational Xehanort may think he is or how understandable his goals may be. He may not be insane but he is far from just or moral
 
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