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You know what'd be sick? A Kingdom Hearts remake



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Face My Fears

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Man I agree to this so hardcore.
KH1 is so convoluted and clunky. I mean, some of the boss fights are obnoxious and difficult not for any lack of skill but because the camera likes to randomly focus on Sora's ankles or something. I experienced this mostly during the fights with Oogie Boogie and Ursula, but it was a consistent issue throughout. I kept finding myself feeling frustrated instead of having fun because I couldn't see what I was fighting.

Some connections that you were supposed to make instinctively just didn't seem to make sense to me?
For example, in Atlantica you have to ride the dolphin near Ariel's Grotto to get the second dolphin that takes you to the sunken ship to spawn. But the first dolphin doesn't take you anywhere so I thought it was a fun gimmick or something because the game never established that the dolphins take you places, in fact it established the opposite.

Many of the locations seem like complete labyrinths where there is no clear indication of where to go. Without a walk-through it almost feels impossible to navigate to me.
Some players might find this level of unaware exploration fun, but I find KH2 to be a superior game in nearly every way when it comes to directing the player's assumptions.

Don't get me wrong, for 2002 it's excellent...but it doesn't hold up in 2021. I think a KH1 remake with updated graphics and smoother gameplay would be a phenomenal idea. It makes it less of a hassle to replay, and the OG exists for everyone who wants it.
I actually liked being confused as hell in Atlantica. It added depth to a world that was pretty straight forward. When I got lost, it made me actually look around the world and interact with it. That's much better than a straight line leading you directly where you need to go and a map/instructions telling you exactly what to do. If it were up to me, I would only allow the map and instructions info box pop up only if you're playing Easy Mode. I will say that there should be dialogue boxes or hints from characters like Sebastian or Flounder to lead you to the dolphin at least.

Compared to KH2, it felt like they didn't trust me to figure things out when the worlds were already straightforward. I really didn't like the amount of handholding in KH2. I mean, do we really need an info box to tell us "defeat the opponent" and then go in detail to explain how to do it and/or basically tell me what to do in new situations like the Xemnas battle when you're jumping around and it's telling you to "use stunt dodge!" instead of letting me use my brain and figure out hmm, this new action has appeared called "Stunt Dodge" and I'm trying to dodge being killed... I wonder what to do, I know I'll use stunt dodge.

I don't get the idea why it's bad for something old to not "hold up" in the present day and thus it immediately needs a remake. Why can't some things just be left as is? To me, this constant remaking/rebooting is low-key saying that the present day stuff isn't good enough and we have to resort to using old stuff. Unlike Final Fantasy VII, KH1 isn't a contained story and it isn't even the game held to the highest esteem - that goes to KH2. So what then? Remake KH2 because by 2025 it doesn't hold up? Then in 2039 remake KH3? Developers should keep looking to the future and not live in the past, otherwise they will never be able to make anything groundbreaking. I seriously doubt when games like Kingdom Hearts, Halo, Metal Gear Solid and other major franchises were made that the developers were thinking at that time "what was done before?", I'm pretty sure they were all excited and energized to see what could be done. Nowadays, it seems like the opposite is happening where people want to revert to what worked as a safety net rather than be bold and different.
(this isn't really directed at you, just a general thought that came to me because you mentioned "doesn't hold up" which I've seen stated many times before)
 

v4vendetta

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I don't get the idea why it's bad for something old to not "hold up" in the present day and thus it immediately needs a remake. Why can't some things just be left as is?

No worries I didn't take anything personally! I like discussing different opinions on things like this.

I think there are a few logical fallacies in your post I might like to address though (if I have misrepresented any of your opinions here just ignore my poor characterization as I do not make these points in bad faith, only to simplify my arguments):

1. Making a remake of KH1 necessitates a remake for all the other games (when do we stop?)
I don't think this is the case. KH2 still plays REALLY well, and I think it probably always will. Sure there are hallmarks of an older game, like poorer graphics, but the game-play is really smooth. I play that right now and there is no frustration, just fun. I don't think that giving the OLDEST game in the series (nearly two decades!) a remake necessitates one for every game (although I would like to see one for 358/2 as well but it's in DS hell).

2. Remakes mean that there is no longer original content being produced because companies rely on old properties.
I think this is incorrect too. For every staple series like Pokemon and kingdom hearts, there are innovative games like Hades being released. I don't think that remaking a twenty year old game is going to dissuade Square Enix or anyone else from making new games with new stories.

3. Games don't need to hold up, we should just leave them as they are.
I think that while this is a matter of opinion, there is no harm done in making a game more accessible to more people.
The value of a remake is that the old game still exists for purists who prefer to play things as they are, but the remake is more accessible to new players or those like me who just get easily frustrated when dealing with old mechanics and game design.

4. Having no sense of direction is part of the fun of the game, and people should just enjoy the added exploration.
Exploration is fun sure, but being lost isn't. And while I don't think all games should hold your hand (one of my favorite games is Breath of the Wild), I do think that there should be a coherent line of thought from place to place. It shouldn't be an "easy mode" thing to know where you are going. It should just be good game design.
We should also remember the target audience for this was CHILDREN. I wouldn't expect a nine year old to figure something like the dolphins in Atlantica out through anything other than random chance, which I don't think is fair or accessible.

These opinions come from my hellish experience playing the game recently. Maybe I'm simply spoiled by the ease of newer games like KH2 and KH3, but the lack of coherent direction and the awful camera really hindered my experience. I can't say I had fun in a single world without some degree of frustration.

I'm not saying it's bad by any means...but experiencing the same story and worlds with perhaps upgraded graphics and a functional camera would still be a very fun experience.
And again, it hurts NO ONE to have a decent, honest remake of the game that is accessible to more people.

I hope that clarifies my position a little bit.
 

Face My Fears

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No worries I didn't take anything personally! I like discussing different opinions on things like this.

I think there are a few logical fallacies in your post I might like to address though (if I have misrepresented any of your opinions here just ignore my poor characterization as I do not make these points in bad faith, only to simplify my arguments):

1. Making a remake of KH1 necessitates a remake for all the other games (when do we stop?)
I don't think this is the case. KH2 still plays REALLY well, and I think it probably always will. Sure there are hallmarks of an older game, like poorer graphics, but the game-play is really smooth. I play that right now and there is no frustration, just fun. I don't think that giving the OLDEST game in the series (nearly two decades!) a remake necessitates one for every game (although I would like to see one for 358/2 as well but it's in DS hell).

2. Remakes mean that there is no longer original content being produced because companies rely on old properties.
I think this is incorrect too. For every staple series like Pokemon and kingdom hearts, there are innovative games like Hades being released. I don't think that remaking a twenty year old game is going to dissuade Square Enix or anyone else from making new games with new stories.

3. Games don't need to hold up, we should just leave them as they are.
I think that while this is a matter of opinion, there is no harm done in making a game more accessible to more people.
The value of a remake is that the old game still exists for purists who prefer to play things as they are, but the remake is more accessible to new players or those like me who just get easily frustrated when dealing with old mechanics and game design.

4. Having no sense of direction is part of the fun of the game, and people should just enjoy the added exploration.
Exploration is fun sure, but being lost isn't. And while I don't think all games should hold your hand (one of my favorite games is Breath of the Wild), I do think that there should be a coherent line of thought from place to place. It shouldn't be an "easy mode" thing to know where you are going. It should just be good game design.
We should also remember the target audience for this was CHILDREN. I wouldn't expect a nine year old to figure something like the dolphins in Atlantica out through anything other than random chance, which I don't think is fair or accessible.

These opinions come from my hellish experience playing the game recently. Maybe I'm simply spoiled by the ease of newer games like KH2 and KH3, but the lack of coherent direction and the awful camera really hindered my experience. I can't say I had fun in a single world without some degree of frustration.

I'm not saying it's bad by any means...but experiencing the same story and worlds with perhaps upgraded graphics and a functional camera would still be a very fun experience.
And again, it hurts NO ONE to have a decent, honest remake of the game that is accessible to more people.

I hope that clarifies my position a little bit.
I understand where you're coming from and I feel you.

1. The point I was really trying to get across was that once the door is opened (pun intended), it won't be able to be closed. If KH1 gets a remake, there's no way you can say that fans will not demand KH2 to be remade as it is the pinnacle of the franchise (for the vocal majority). And if they give in and do KH2, then what's going to stop BbS/Days/KH3? I know it's a hypothetical of another hypothetical, but I think it might be a bad idea to ultimately have remakes hanging over the development team for years to come alongside future titles.

2. I didn't mean Square Enix or gaming in general, I meant more the KH team. Look at what happened with Dark Road. Instead of being something brand new with Xehanort, it's a copy and paste of KHUX. Even Melody of Memory, which granted is a brand new gameplay system, still is basically one huge copy and paste heavily relying on the older styled models for attention/nostalgia. It's like they're stuck in the past and don't really want to move forward. I know that MoM was meant to be a "love letter"/"goodbye" to Phase 1, but it still seems like they're thinking about the past too much and not the future and doing new things. That is conjecture though.

3. I agree that there is no harm in making the games more accessible. KH1 is accessible through various platforms nowadays. Why is a remake the way of making it accessible? That's like saying Monopoly or Chess needs a remake for it be accessible for kids today. Once they can find a way to play it on a modern system, that should be enough for them. I think it's a disservice to games of the past and modern day gamers to sort of imply that games need to be remade to be accessible to them. If I play the same Pac Man that was originally in the arcade, I'm pretty sure I will have the same enjoyment that I had back then.

4. The no sense of direction thing... I didn't remember if there was guidance in Atlantica, but I checked and if you talk to Flounder he says that there is a big fish that swims against currents but didn't like the heartless. So guidance is in there, you just need to engage the environment. When KH1 was released, that time period of gaming was when you were really encouraged to talk to NPCs and/or people just did it because it was cool/new (at that time) to actually have characters you can interact with rather than just silent figures. The game already sets you up to understand that you can gain new information from talking to characters (like the Final Fantasy ones in Traverse Town or even Kairi on Destiny Islands), so if you reached Atlantica, I would think a player would assume that if I'm lost I should talk to a character and see what they say. I think that's why Atlantica wasn't an issue for me when I first played it because I always make sure to talk to every character (or as many as I can) before leaving an area. When I think about it, there are moments where NPCs guide you to certain things, like Kairi will hint on locations of the items on Destiny Islands, someone (I think Triton) tells you how to fight Ursula (with the cauldron), when you try to fight Phantom and you don't have Peter Pan in your party I think Tinker Bell or Donald/Goofy suggests to bring Peter etc. So there is guidance in KH1.

The camera thing, I kind of agree. I never had major issues with the camera in KH1 and actually didn't really understand the hatred for it. I don't know if I'm just used to the camera being like that because I played the game 20+ times or what, but I don't know if a remake guarantees that the camera will be fixed. I mean - would the direction be to simply polish up the game and keep the visual aesthetics (as in how the HUD is and the camera angles/perspective used in KH1 because it suited the slower combat in KH1) or would it be a complete revamp to make KH1 play like KH2 in KH3 graphics?

At the end of the day, most gamers, even PC gamers can play KH1. They have access to it. If they need a shiny, new remake to appreciate it, then I think that says more about them than it does about the game itself. I don't see a remake as hurting anyone or taking anything away from the original. I do think that it will be the wrong direction, development wise, for the franchise. Nomura has always been swamped with projects and KH always had to be his main focus while focusing on a whole bunch of other stuff. The series has finally reached a point where he can seemingly work on fewer projects and be more focused. I would like for him to focus on the future than remaking KH1 and being distracted... or worse yet (as I'm talking Nomura) be tempted to incorporate the remake into the main storyline.
 
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1. The point I was really trying to get across was that once the door is opened (pun intended), it won't be able to be closed. If KH1 gets a remake, there's no way you can say that fans will not demand KH2 to be remade as it is the pinnacle of the franchise (for the vocal majority). And if they give in and do KH2, then what's going to stop BbS/Days/KH3? I know it's a hypothetical of another hypothetical, but I think it might be a bad idea to ultimately have remakes hanging over the development team for years to come alongside future titles.
This is a really good point and one that already applies to Final Fantasy. Even though FF7R isn't done yet (not even close) fans are already talking about remakes for 8 and 9, and Nomura wants to go back and remake 5 and 6. Thanks to the mixed reactions to 13 and 15, alot of FF fans would rather have remakes of old games instead of new games like 16. And I won't be surprised at all if Square Enix decides that it's easier and safer to do so. I just hope that never happens with Kingdom Hearts.
 

Absent

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Not y'all trashing Kingdom Hearts 1 on my lawn. Kingdom Hearts is a testament to its time. Back when video games would make fun of you and spit on you for being ignorant. Constant exploration with trial and error was the standard, so miss me with those 2010+ standards on my 2002 video game.
Y'all need some nostalgia to truly appreciate what birth this franchise, because Kingdom Hearts 1 is an experience unlike anything else.

The very definition of lighting in a bottle.

Also Nomura has no self restraint to NOT mess with the plot for a rewhatever.
 

v4vendetta

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KH1 is accessible through various platforms nowadays. Why is a remake the way of making it accessible? That's like saying Monopoly or Chess needs a remake for it be accessible for kids today. Once they can find a way to play it on a modern system, that should be enough for them.
I have a bit of a headache for so I hope you will forgive me for not responding to your post in its totality. I agree with a lot of your points here, but I think you missed what I meant by accessibility.
I don't mean having the same game on various platforms, I mean having it be less frustrating for younger/new players- people who are used to more intuitive control schemes.
I think it is valuable to remake a game in such a way that is is playable to a modern standard (functional camera, ease of navigation, etc.).

I really just don't see how it is more harm than good to have a KH1 remake, I think it could be a lot of fun.

Not y'all trashing Kingdom Hearts 1 on my lawn. Kingdom Hearts is a testament to its time. Back when video games would make fun of you and spit on you for being ignorant. Constant exploration with trial and error was the standard, so miss me with those 2010+ standards on my 2002 video game.
Y'all need some nostalgia to truly appreciate what birth this franchise, because Kingdom Hearts 1 is an experience unlike anything else.

Noooo, I adore Kingdom Hearts. That includes KH1. But the fact of the matter is, it was made in 2002.
It was an incredibly ambitious game for it's time and I think it has a lot of value obviously.
But just because something is a "classic" doesn't mean you can't criticize it.

By modern standards, it is VERY frustrating to play. I think that curbing that frustration for a new audience who is used to intuitive gameplay wouldn't degrade the experience if everything else was kept relatively the same.

I don't like the notion that we can't improve upon things from the past or make them better. Like, "people these days are just babies who can't play games" instead of "oh hey, the camera in KH1 is really frustrating and people who grew up with modern video games with objectively better control schemes are going to hate that and it will make it a less valuable experience".

I love KH1 just as much as you do, I think. I think everyone here on both sides of the debate adore KH1 and the series that it spawned or we wouldn't be here.
It's just some people express that adoration by wanting to preserve every aspect of it. Other people express that love by wanting to update it for a new generation to experience, with renewed game-play and the same old heart.

I think both of these opinions are valid, and neither is an indication of any ill will.
 

Alpha Baymax

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It’s very generic in fact. It’s the same moe art design present in every single run of the mill anime game of the past 10 years. Simply compare the character art for the leads of 1 and 2 (which DE is obviously based on) and the difference is clear as day:

b19a3fc45b03f2caf9aebe2e8dfa8c3a.jpg

1200px-Rex.png


The first is a more realistic, almost western design, which is uncommon in these type of JRPGs. And the second is just... generic anime. Also, I never said anything about the graphical fidelity of the models themselves?

And dude, DE is literally the same game but with some gameplay and graphical improvements. Just like 99% of remakes. Don’t act like they’re these completely different games. 7R’s style is not the norm. Of course, the original will always be available... until it isn’t. Because companies would rather preserve the shiny, newer version over the ugly, old one (Ex: Sonic Adventure, Yakuza 2, Chain of Memories).

In my experience, any hype that comes with seeing any improvement or update in graphical quality in a remake is usually overshadowed immediately by the bad. Like to give my own example:

The Ratchet and Clank reboot had some great graphics and polished shooting, but all I could think about throughout was how the game was the antithesis of everything good about the original. The story being a parody on consumerism was turned into a by the numbers kids movie plot. The characters were removed of any ‘unmarketable’ personality traits. The legendary OST was replaced with the most generic movie score imaginable. It was such disgrace.

But the real twist of the knife is that now, whenever someone searches for ‘Ratchet and Clank’, that’s the version they’re gonna see. When a newcomer looks for the most convenient version to play, that’s the one they’re gonna see.
The character art for the Xenoblade Chronicles characters used in promotion isn't actually art, it was just the 3D models of the characters underneath a 2D sketch layer. And in regards to the ideal version of the game to play, consumers are smarter than you give them credit for, if they want to find the original version of the game then they will find a way to get access to it.

The entire Kingdom Hearts franchise is available on the Epic Games Store via Kingdom Hearts 1.5+2.5 HD Remix so even if a hypothetical remake were to be announced, the original game is still available and has no valid reason to be delisted.

I think the elephant in the room is obvious: Nomura would make the reboot itself a part of the lore.
Without a shadow of a doubt, just make it an alternate worldline and there's the connection to the larger lore.
 

Elysium

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Although I don't care about KH2, I imagine that if they were to re-make KH1, they'd re-make 2 as well. That way 1, 2, and 3 all have a similar graphic style. And, you know, I think a KH2 re-make would be more deserving than one for KH1 really. People are complaining about blocky rooms in KH1, but at least those worlds were actually open, challenging, and invited exploration. KH2 had the same flaws as FFXIII--you just march straight through from place to place with no thought needed at all. Huge worlds would be an even bigger step up where it concerns KH2 than it would with KH1 really. Most of its worlds are smaller than several of KH1's, all because they were afraid some players might be confused about what to do or where to go. So the design was dumbed down for everyone.

Beast's Castle, for example, is fantastic plot-wise, but pretty disappointing design-wise considering how beautiful the movie's backgrounds and environments are. Land of Dragons and Pride Lands were...sort of pathetic, tbh. Maybe we could actually get to fight the Hun army in the re-make instead of fighting Rapid Thrusters for a minute and a half...

1. Making a remake of KH1 necessitates a remake for all the other games (when do we stop?)
I don't think this is the case. KH2 still plays REALLY well, and I think it probably always will. Sure there are hallmarks of an older game, like poorer graphics, but the game-play is really smooth. I play that right now and there is no frustration, just fun. I don't think that giving the OLDEST game in the series (nearly two decades!) a remake necessitates one for every game (although I would like to see one for 358/2 as well but it's in DS hell).

2. Remakes mean that there is no longer original content being produced because companies rely on old properties.
I think this is incorrect too. For every staple series like Pokemon and kingdom hearts, there are innovative games like Hades being released. I don't think that remaking a twenty year old game is going to dissuade Square Enix or anyone else from making new games with new stories.

3. Games don't need to hold up, we should just leave them as they are.
I think that while this is a matter of opinion, there is no harm done in making a game more accessible to more people.
The value of a remake is that the old game still exists for purists who prefer to play things as they are, but the remake is more accessible to new players or those like me who just get easily frustrated when dealing with old mechanics and game design.

I agree on all three of these points. A remake wouldn't stop original content from being produced simultaneously; re-makes wouldn't require anywhere near the scope of Nomura's time as an original game would and he works on multiple games at the same time as it is. Of course it would be frustrating to hear people claim a KH1 remake is better than the original, but the fanbase's claims about many things are already frustrating. What's new? An original and a remake can coexist. Naturally, newer generations will prefer what is newest, but that doesn't take away anyone's enjoyment of the games that exist.

This is a really good point and one that already applies to Final Fantasy. Even though FF7R isn't done yet (not even close) fans are already talking about remakes for 8 and 9, and Nomura wants to go back and remake 5 and 6. Thanks to the mixed reactions to 13 and 15, alot of FF fans would rather have remakes of old games instead of new games like 16. And I won't be surprised at all if Square Enix decides that it's easier and safer to do so. I just hope that never happens with Kingdom Hearts.
Personally, I'm really looking forward to FFXVI and I'd *also* love re-makes of VIII and IX especially (but V and VI would be nice, too). But I liked XV, so... Honestly, I'm not sure whether remakes of VIII and IX will ever happen though. Those games just aren't juggernauts like VII, but I hope it happens one day. I feel like a X remake has more likelihood of happening because it's one of the biggest in the series just like VII.
 
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toniostarke

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Re:coded shouldn’t have been a game to start with imbho
😰
💔
Maybe they can make a point of revisiting some worlds in new games (lets' face it, they will anyway).
Yeh, but what're the chances of Wonderland showing up again? I mean I just started playin UX recently and it shows up in there pretty good, but I'm not too confident we'll see that again in 3d. But who knows?
 
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Face My Fears

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I have a bit of a headache for so I hope you will forgive me for not responding to your post in its totality. I agree with a lot of your points here, but I think you missed what I meant by accessibility.
I don't mean having the same game on various platforms, I mean having it be less frustrating for younger/new players- people who are used to more intuitive control schemes.
I think it is valuable to remake a game in such a way that is is playable to a modern standard (functional camera, ease of navigation, etc.).
This is what I think it boils down to and where we disagree I suppose. I do see the merit in having a game that is playable in "modern standards" and it would be great to have a version of KH1 like that... but this mentality opens the door to endless remakes. What happens 20 years from now when "modern standards" have changed? Do they remake KH1 again and again?

I view video games as art. It captures a time period, technical aspects and storytelling in a very unique medium. Complete remakes - in my eyes - wipes that clean and tries to reconstruct something using a modern lens. But the beauty of the original piece is the time and technical abilities of the time it was produced. Seeing the KH1 cutscenes back in 2002 was breathtaking. The models used are iconic, so much so that they're constantly reused like in MoM.

So yeah, it would be great for younger audiences that only know modern standards to be able to play KH1 in a way that matches their modern ways... but is it a necessity when they can play the original? Why should the game conform to modern standards, rather than modern players conform and approach a piece of art history in a 2002 game? Remaking the game to suit modern times is changing the piece of art into something completely different, while modern players playing the original KH1 is simply asking modern players to adapt to a different playstyle.
 

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The character art for the Xenoblade Chronicles characters used in promotion isn't actually art, it was just the 3D models of the characters underneath a 2D sketch layer. And in regards to the ideal version of the game to play, consumers are smarter than you give them credit for, if they want to find the original version of the game then they will find a way to get access to it.

The entire Kingdom Hearts franchise is available on the Epic Games Store via Kingdom Hearts 1.5+2.5 HD Remix so even if a hypothetical remake were to be announced, the original game is still available and has no valid reason to be delisted.
Obviously if someone really cares about a game, they’ll go through whatever lengths to play it. That doesn’t mean the casual rando next door will. Say a guy wants to get into 3D Sonic games starting with Adventure 1. What do you think is more likely? Him scouring the internet for some Dreamcast emulator and SA rom, then spending time making sure it’s compatible with his PC setup? Or will he just get the shoddy but easily accessible remake on Steam? He’s not a hardcore Sonic fan. He has better things to do than look for the supposedly better version.

Yes, the collections have been well preserved. Notice tho how none of them include the original CoM? Sure, they have no valid reason to delist them now. They had no valid reason to delist OG Warcraft 3 and Dark Souls either. But they did it anyway. Because the companies saw them as obsolete.
 

v4vendetta

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So yeah, it would be great for younger audiences that only know modern standards to be able to play KH1 in a way that matches their modern ways... but is it a necessity when they can play the original?
Well, I don't think it is a "necessity" per say.
But I would LOVE to share the story of KH1 with my little siblings in a way that wouldn't be frustrating for them (and I know it would be because even as someone who grew up in the early 2000's with the original KH1, the game-play of KH1 was frustrating for me). Asking modern players to conform to an experience where the camera doesn't function seems silly to me when we could just give them a modern experience with a story so beautiful that we all came here to appreciate it!

I don't think something has to be "necessary" to exist. A remake isn't inherently a detriment.
It doesn't tarnish the original in any way as long as it is made well.
And I also view video games as art...so why not see an old piece of art in a new style? I don't think remaking KH1 wipes clean how impressive KH1 was for its time.
If ANYTHING there's an argument that when remakes are made, people go buy the original game when they otherwise wouldn't out of appreciation for its story (I did this for FF7).

I'm not saying a remake has to exist, I'm simply saying there is no harm done by its existence (as long as they don't REALLY jack it up in some spectacular way like adding in rides from KH3 or some awful crap like that).
If they continue to remake KH1 in the future, great! More content for the fandom and more new fans. It means the series is alive and thriving and people want to experience that story again. That sounds GREAT to me.
 

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I actually liked being confused as hell in Atlantica. It added depth to a world that was pretty straight forward. When I got lost, it made me actually look around the world and interact with it. That's much better than a straight line leading you directly where you need to go and a map/instructions telling you exactly what to do. If it were up to me, I would only allow the map and instructions info box pop up only if you're playing Easy Mode. I will say that there should be dialogue boxes or hints from characters like Sebastian or Flounder to lead you to the dolphin at least.

Compared to KH2, it felt like they didn't trust me to figure things out when the worlds were already straightforward. I really didn't like the amount of handholding in KH2. I mean, do we really need an info box to tell us "defeat the opponent" and then go in detail to explain how to do it and/or basically tell me what to do in new situations like the Xemnas battle when you're jumping around and it's telling you to "use stunt dodge!" instead of letting me use my brain and figure out hmm, this new action has appeared called "Stunt Dodge" and I'm trying to dodge being killed... I wonder what to do, I know I'll use stunt dodge.

I don't get the idea why it's bad for something old to not "hold up" in the present day and thus it immediately needs a remake. Why can't some things just be left as is? To me, this constant remaking/rebooting is low-key saying that the present day stuff isn't good enough and we have to resort to using old stuff. Unlike Final Fantasy VII, KH1 isn't a contained story and it isn't even the game held to the highest esteem - that goes to KH2. So what then? Remake KH2 because by 2025 it doesn't hold up? Then in 2039 remake KH3? Developers should keep looking to the future and not live in the past, otherwise they will never be able to make anything groundbreaking. I seriously doubt when games like Kingdom Hearts, Halo, Metal Gear Solid and other major franchises were made that the developers were thinking at that time "what was done before?", I'm pretty sure they were all excited and energized to see what could be done. Nowadays, it seems like the opposite is happening where people want to revert to what worked as a safety net rather than be bold and different.
(this isn't really directed at you, just a general thought that came to me because you mentioned "doesn't hold up" which I've seen stated many times before)
Tl:dr
Kh3 Carribean undersea parts were better versions of Kh1 Atlantica. Those kinds of huge, open, and interesting level design choices would be all I want in from a KH Remake. A perfect Kingdom Hearts remake would be the (mostly) same gameplay as the OG with worlds made to reflect the experience learned from making 19 yrs worth of games. Kh2 can stay on ps2 no remake needed

So I would argue that, yeah alot of games dont really need revisiting, but when a future game in a series like Kh3 shows what the full potential of a games idea could be (ie exploration and world design), any games that were lacking in thoses same areas before would definitely benefit from a revisit with those new ideas in mind. Like, Atlantica wasnt that bad of a level, but to me at least, it wasnt that great either. Like it did have plenty of cool things to explore, but I remember the areas before Ursula lair and the wrecked ship just being boring and easy to get lost in (which wouldn't have been bad if the locations were interesting). Now, how did you feel about the Carribean in Kh3? Specifically the underwater parts. To me, those were like what Atlantica should've been but couldn (due to hardware constraints, inexperience,etc). All the ideas were there, undersea caves, coral reefs, shipwrecks, fish, the only things missing were the rideable wildlife and undersea castles, but everything there was all present but exponentially more fleshed out and enjoyable to explore. It actually felt like exploring the ocean as opposed to wide open rooms with claustrophobic and confusing canyons between (that's how I remember it at least, it's been a while since I played kh1 but I dont remember feeling good about the levels). Of course the controls were greatly improved in 3 so that probably helped playing thru, but still I would say that underwater experience is greater than the one in Kh1. Now of course, I'm not gonna sit here and call Kh1 a bad game for it, that's the best they could do at the time so that's the game we got. But now with their, what, decade+ worth of experience and better technology, they could definitely apply what they've learned to the worlds of the first game and deliver the experience, I would guess, they wanted to make by creating these huge disney WORLDS for us to explore. Like I said before, the ONLY thing keeping me from replaying KH1 are the worlds. I can't be the only one who wants to take Kh1 sora (kh1 gameplay included, no upgrades, just straight up high jump, superglue sora) and put him in some huge, open, and intricate versions of wonderland, agrabah, atlantica, and halloween town so I can play with him in these huge playgrounds. Say what you will about 3, that game had some solid ass worlds. All I'd want is to see that world design philosophy in the worlds of kh1. I dont even want a kh2 remake, ima be real. When I think kh2, I just think combat, and all I'd want from that is more things to fight. We have mods for that, so no remake is even required. But when I think Kingdom Hearts 1, I think exploration, and Kh3 has the kinda worlds I'd want to explore. It's just not as fun in 3 cuz Sora can run up walls for whatever freakin reason, it's the DDD problem, too much freedom not enough limitations and you fly through them so fast you can't really take the time to enjoy them. Kingdom Hearts 1 has the perfect mix of not too over the top action and just enough movement options to be enjoyable that would make exploring big worlds fun. It just doesn't have the compensate, or at least big worlds wouldn't hurt the game. That's what I'd want a remake for, to run around in these big re imaginings of worlds. ...I kinda forgot what I was gettin at here, tho so, idk that's the kind of (and really only) remake I'd want. One that serves as a deserved enhancement as opposed to a reinventing and replacement, ya know? It's own kinda treat to the fans, super late Dlc in a way.
 
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Face My Fears

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Well, I don't think it is a "necessity" per say.
But I would LOVE to share the story of KH1 with my little siblings in a way that wouldn't be frustrating for them (and I know it would be because even as someone who grew up in the early 2000's with the original KH1, the game-play of KH1 was frustrating for me). Asking modern players to conform to an experience where the camera doesn't function seems silly to me when we could just give them a modern experience with a story so beautiful that we all came here to appreciate it!

I don't think something has to be "necessary" to exist. A remake isn't inherently a detriment.
It doesn't tarnish the original in any way as long as it is made well.
And I also view video games as art...so why not see an old piece of art in a new style? I don't think remaking KH1 wipes clean how impressive KH1 was for its time.
If ANYTHING there's an argument that when remakes are made, people go buy the original game when they otherwise wouldn't out of appreciation for its story (I did this for FF7).

I'm not saying a remake has to exist, I'm simply saying there is no harm done by its existence (as long as they don't REALLY jack it up in some spectacular way like adding in rides from KH3 or some awful crap like that).
If they continue to remake KH1 in the future, great! More content for the fandom and more new fans. It means the series is alive and thriving and people want to experience that story again. That sounds GREAT to me.
See, that's the issue with a remake being done and catering for the modern crowd. KH3 - the most modern game in the series - had Flowmotion, summoning rides, keyblade transformations etc. You're arguing that an awful camera in KH1 justifies a remake, yet also argue that you don't want other "awful crap" like the rides from KH3 in the KH1 remake. Yet the "awful crap" is what the modern gamers will know from the franchise and probably expect. If the remake is being done to cater to them, there is no way they will accept KH1's bare minimum of Attack/Magic/Items/Summons/Special Ability. They will probably complain that Sora moves to slow, the combat is too slow, there's too few options etc... of course, that's if the remake stays true to KH1. But if it's catering to the modern crowd, it goes beyond just a bad camera which in turn makes me the ask the question whether the remake can even really be considered "KH1" anymore? It might be in a new style, but it just feels unnecessary especially just because the camera is frustrating.
Tl:dr
Kh3 Carribean undersea parts were better versions of Kh1 Atlantica. Those kinds of huge, open, and interesting level design choices would be all I want in from a KH Remake. A perfect Kingdom Hearts remake would be the (mostly) same gameplay as the OG with worlds made to reflect the experience learned from making 19 yrs worth of games. Kh2 can stay on ps2 no remake needed

So I would argue that, yeah alot of games dont really need revisiting, but when a future game in a series like Kh3 shows what the full potential of a games idea could be (ie exploration and world design), any games that were lacking in thoses same areas before would definitely benefit from a revisit with those new ideas in mind. Like, Atlantica wasnt that bad of a level, but to me at least, it wasnt that great either. Like it did have plenty of cool things to explore, but I remember the areas before Ursula lair and the wrecked ship just being boring and easy to get lost in (which wouldn't have been bad if the locations were interesting). Now, how did you feel about the Carribean in Kh3? Specifically the underwater parts. To me, those were like what Atlantica should've been but couldn (due to hardware constraints, inexperience,etc). All the ideas were there, undersea caves, coral reefs, shipwrecks, fish, the only things missing were the rideable wildlife and undersea castles, but everything there was all present but exponentially more fleshed out and enjoyable to explore. It actually felt like exploring the ocean as opposed to wide open rooms with claustrophobic and confusing canyons between (that's how I remember it at least, it's been a while since I played kh1 but I dont remember feeling good about the levels). Of course the controls were greatly improved in 3 so that probably helped playing thru, but still I would say that underwater experience is greater than the one in Kh1. Now of course, I'm not gonna sit here and call Kh1 a bad game for it, that's the best they could do at the time so that's the game we got. But now with their, what, decade+ worth of experience and better technology, they could definitely apply what they've learned to the worlds of the first game and deliver the experience, I would guess, they wanted to make by creating these huge disney WORLDS for us to explore. Like I said before, the ONLY thing keeping me from replaying KH1 are the worlds. I can't be the only one who wants to take Kh1 sora (kh1 gameplay included, no upgrades, just straight up high jump, superglue sora) and put him in some huge, open, and intricate versions of wonderland, agrabah, atlantica, and halloween town so I can play with him in these huge playgrounds. Say what you will about 3, that game had some solid ass worlds. All I'd want is to see that world design philosophy in the worlds of kh1. I dont even want a kh2 remake, ima be real. When I think kh2, I just think combat, and all I'd want from that is more things to fight. We have mods for that, so no remake is even required. But when I think Kingdom Hearts 1, I think exploration, and Kh3 has the kinda worlds I'd want to explore. It's just not as fun in 3 cuz Sora can run up walls for whatever freakin reason, it's the DDD problem, too much freedom not enough limitations and you fly through them so fast you can't really take the time to enjoy them. Kingdom Hearts 1 has the perfect mix of not too over the top action and just enough movement options to be enjoyable that would make exploring big worlds fun. It just doesn't have the compensate, or at least big worlds wouldn't hurt the game. That's what I'd want a remake for, to run around in these big re imaginings of worlds. ...I kinda forgot what I was gettin at here, tho so, idk that's the kind of (and really only) remake I'd want. One that serves as a deserved enhancement as opposed to a reinventing and replacement, ya know? It's own kinda treat to the fans, super late Dlc in a way.
Well my solution was that the worlds should just return in future games rather than doing a remake just to revisit them. To answer your question, I loved The Caribbean in KH3 and it really proved that underwater controls have improved... so they better give me Atlantica in the future.

To your comment about KH2 can stay on PS2, no remake needed... I don't get how you can say that and also comment on how crap the KH1 worlds were. If anything, KH2's worlds are the ones in desperate need of an overhaul. Each Disney world in KH1, except Olympus and maybe NeverLand, were pretty well designed and actually engaged the player to explore. Even limited ones like WonderLand were inventive to keep you exploring them. Where was that in KH2? Compare Agrabah in KH1 to KH2. KH1's Agrabah is superior. The town involves different levels you explore and little nooks and crannies, which really makes you feel like Aladdin did in the movie moving around in the streets of Agrabah. KH2 it's one big empty space that you fly across with glide to where the map points you to go. The Cave of Wonders in KH1 requires you to actually investigate to advance. The Cave of Wonders in KH2 is a straight line to where you need to go... so much for the "wonders". Even though I would rather see a KH1 remake because I love the story and the worlds more (and think they and the DISNEY villains deserve revised boss fights), I think KH2 is the game that sorely needs a remake to salvage those worlds. I mean The Pride Lands and Land of Dragons were a huge letdown to me especially because I love those movies and thought those worlds had potential.
 

toniostarke

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See, that's the issue with a remake being done and catering for the modern crowd. KH3 - the most modern game in the series - had Flowmotion, summoning rides, keyblade transformations etc. You're arguing that an awful camera in KH1 justifies a remake, yet also argue that you don't want other "awful crap" like the rides from KH3 in the KH1 remake. Yet the "awful crap" is what the modern gamers will know from the franchise and probably expect. If the remake is being done to cater to them, there is no way they will accept KH1's bare minimum of Attack/Magic/Items/Summons/Special Ability. They will probably complain that Sora moves to slow, the combat is too slow, there's too few options etc... of course, that's if the remake stays true to KH1. But if it's catering to the modern crowd, it goes beyond just a bad camera which in turn makes me the ask the question whether the remake can even really be considered "KH1" anymore? It might be in a new style, but it just feels unnecessary especially just because the camera is frustrating.

Well my solution was that the worlds should just return in future games rather than doing a remake just to revisit them. To answer your question, I loved The Caribbean in KH3 and it really proved that underwater controls have improved... so they better give me Atlantica in the future.

To your comment about KH2 can stay on PS2, no remake needed... I don't get how you can say that and also comment on how crap the KH1 worlds were. If anything, KH2's worlds are the ones in desperate need of an overhaul. Each Disney world in KH1, except Olympus and maybe NeverLand, were pretty well designed and actually engaged the player to explore. Even limited ones like WonderLand were inventive to keep you exploring them. Where was that in KH2? Compare Agrabah in KH1 to KH2. KH1's Agrabah is superior. The town involves different levels you explore and little nooks and crannies, which really makes you feel like Aladdin did in the movie moving around in the streets of Agrabah. KH2 it's one big empty space that you fly across with glide to where the map points you to go. The Cave of Wonders in KH1 requires you to actually investigate to advance. The Cave of Wonders in KH2 is a straight line to where you need to go... so much for the "wonders". Even though I would rather see a KH1 remake because I love the story and the worlds more (and think they and the DISNEY villains deserve revised boss fights), I think KH2 is the game that sorely needs a remake to salvage those worlds. I mean The Pride Lands and Land of Dragons were a huge letdown to me especially because I love those movies and thought those worlds had potential.
Well it's like I said somewhere in that small booklet of a post I typed, i dont go into Kh2 expecting anything from the worlds. You're absolutely right, the worlds in 2 were a friggin joke compared to 1. But, I guess because of that, I dont even think about the worlds like that anymore. Where it fails at interesting level design, it kinda compensates in being a pretty solid action game and I think alot of the people who really like 2 can agree that that's the biggest draw of the game. So, absolutely, Kh2 would be better if the disney worlds were actual worlds, but in my eyes it wouldn't be necessary. I dont know about you, but when I think Kh1, I think jumping and gliding and finding secrets(exploration), and when I think Kh2, I think launching Sephiroth and then following up with an aerial spiral and falling down with firaga(combat). Kh2 as a "combat" game is fine and any real updates could be fixed with mods. Kh1 as an exploration game is fine with a lot of people, sure, but definitely would be helped out more with newer technology and level design... tactics(?)
Like dont get me wrong, it kinda sucks that the worlds of Mulan and Tron are in the game and I barely even think of them as anything more than "just hallways to beat up enemies". Those worlds definitely deserve more justice than they got, but if I had to choose which game I'd want to see those worlds recieve that justice in, itd be Kh1. To me, kh1 is probably the most traditional rpg this series ever got, and it's in that slower paced gameplay that I'd want to see more detailed and intricate worlds to explore. Kh2, to me at least, is like 4 or 5 steps away from being Devil May Cry. For action games like that, I'm more concerned with getting to the next fight than I am discovering secrets (and that's kind of a problem I had in 3 tbh, I'm zipping and flying all over the place I can barely take in the work square put into these awesome worlds). So if I had to choose which experience I'd want presented with a fresh coat of paint, I'd choose Kh1 simply because that experience could use the update more than 2. I'm not opposed torpedoing 2, far from it. I'm just pretty sure I wouldn't be zooming past everything in Kh1 if I got that one instead

That AND using Kh1 as the one to remake would be a cool sort "look how far we've come" kinda move Square could do just as like a sort of novelty. That's why I'm not too worried about the remaking of the other games. Having the Kh1 gameplay (with or without the original swimming controls...) in these cool new worlds would just be like a cool treat for old school fans and something of a nice intro for newbies.
 
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Face My Fears

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Well it's like I said somewhere in that small booklet of a post I typed, i dont go into Kh2 expecting anything from the worlds. You're absolutely right, the worlds in 2 were a friggin joke compared to 1. But, I guess because of that, I dont even think about the worlds like that anymore. Where it fails at interesting level design, it kinda compensates in being a pretty solid action game and I think alot of the people who really like 2 can agree that that's the biggest draw of the game. So, absolutely, Kh2 would be better if the disney worlds were actual worlds, but in my eyes it wouldn't be necessary. I dont know about you, but when I think Kh1, I think jumping and gliding and finding secrets(exploration), and when I think Kh2, I think launching Sephiroth and then following up with an aerial spiral and falling down with firaga(combat). Kh2 as a "combat" game is fine and any real updates could be fixed with mods. Kh1 as an exploration game is fine with a lot of people, sure, but definitely would be helped out more with newer technology and level design... tactics(?)
Like dont get me wrong, it kinda sucks that the worlds of Mulan and Tron are in the game and I barely even think of them as anything more than "just hallways to beat up enemies". Those worlds definitely deserve more justice than they got, but if I had to choose which game I'd want to see those worlds recieve that justice in, itd be Kh1. To me, kh1 is probably the most traditional rpg this series ever got, and it's in that slower paced gameplay that I'd want to see more detailed and intricate worlds to explore. Kh2, to me at least, is like 4 or 5 steps away from being Devil May Cry. For action games like that, I'm more concerned with getting to the next fight than I am discovering secrets (and that's kind of a problem I had in 3 tbh, I'm zipping and flying all over the place I can barely take in the work square put into these awesome worlds). So if I had to choose which experience I'd want presented with a fresh coat of paint, I'd choose Kh1 simply because that experience could use the update more than 2. I'm not opposed torpedoing 2, far from it. I'm just pretty sure I wouldn't be zooming past everything in Kh1 if I got that one instead

That AND using Kh1 as the one to remake would be a cool sort "look how far we've come" kinda move Square could do just as like a sort of novelty. That's why I'm not too worried about the remaking of the other games. Having the Kh1 gameplay (with or without the original swimming controls...) in these cool new worlds would just be like a cool treat for old school fans and something of a nice intro for newbies.
Honestly when I think of KH1, the thing that gets me most excited is the DISNEY worlds/usage - the council of villains, the overwhelming ratio of original characters to Final Fantasy characters to DISNEY characters, the princesses of heart storyline etc. As much as I love King Roxas and Queen Xion, I can go through games without them just fine (or many other original characters and Final Fantasy characters), but what a KH game needs for me to really enjoy it are good DISNEY worlds and KH1 delivered on that better than any other game in the series (I would argue about KH3, but KH1 beats it because of actual DISNEY boss fights).

Maybe it's because I'm not a gamer like that, but I didn't really even see KH2 as an action game or a game where I really was more concerned with the fighting especially because Sora eventually becomes god-like and the fights are mere nuisances while still playing the main story, rather than some epic fight. Being able to clear a room with Thundaga in one second while zooming through the air with two keyblades isn't exactly appealing to me versus better world design. But that ship has sailed and KH is moving forward with the faster paced style, which is fine once I get better worlds (which KH3 did provide). All I want now is better use of the worlds. I mean, even if they remake KH1 and make the worlds huge and beautiful... if they have nothing to do in them like KH3, I think I would be even more disappointed. They go through the trouble of remaking KH1 for a functioning camera, but can't give us more to do in the worlds?
 

toniostarke

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Honestly when I think of KH1, the thing that gets me most excited is the DISNEY worlds/usage - the council of villains, the overwhelming ratio of original characters to Final Fantasy characters to DISNEY characters, the princesses of heart storyline etc. As much as I love King Roxas and Queen Xion, I can go through games without them just fine (or many other original characters and Final Fantasy characters), but what a KH game needs for me to really enjoy it are good DISNEY worlds and KH1 delivered on that better than any other game in the series (I would argue about KH3, but KH1 beats it because of actual DISNEY boss fights).

Maybe it's because I'm not a gamer like that, but I didn't really even see KH2 as an action game or a game where I really was more concerned with the fighting especially because Sora eventually becomes god-like and the fights are mere nuisances while still playing the main story, rather than some epic fight. Being able to clear a room with Thundaga in one second while zooming through the air with two keyblades isn't exactly appealing to me versus better world design. But that ship has sailed and KH is moving forward with the faster paced style, which is fine once I get better worlds (which KH3 did provide). All I want now is better use of the worlds. I mean, even if they remake KH1 and make the worlds huge and beautiful... if they have nothing to do in them like KH3, I think I would be even more disappointed. They go through the trouble of remaking KH1 for a functioning camera, but can't give us more to do in the worlds?
Oh christ, yeh good point. Before they think about remaking anything, they gotta figure out how to fill those worlds with stuff to do. Believe it or not, I appreciated the world specific mini games (especially after I found out you could get abilities from most of them) but a hidden mickey scavenger hunt wasnt a good reason to explore the levels. So at least that part we can agree on.

But that's fair. At this point, I guess I've been so jaded by the lack of good Disney worlds after 1, that I just stick around the series for the cool magic sword battles that make varying amounts of sense. Disney world authenticity are just kind of in the background for me. At least with recent games. Kh1's still special though so I guess that's why I'm harkin for that remake so much. After that tho, I can definitely think of more worlds than the ones in 2 that could use a proper revisiting
 
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