Oh yes I'm going there, my boredom today is that great. (at least it is until I can get back to FFX) C=
This is it folks my last boredom thread, I swear, hopefully I've kept some of you at the very least occupied the past two days.
Now then let's get to it!
As you all know at the of bbs following the rather brutal battle between Master Aqua and Terra!Xehanort two things happened:
1) Aqua sank into the dark realm to save Terra
2) Xehanort is fond later with what appears to be amnesia (yet he remembers the name Xehanort)
However #2 has been really called into question as of late, namely this scene from DDD:
^link: #01 | My Name is Ansem - [All Cutscenes - No Subs] Kingdom Hearts 3D [Dream Drop Distance] - YouTube
This scene is that fateful moment that Xehanort and his fellow apprentices under Ansem the Wise became heartless and nobodies as pointed out here:
Now we know that figure we see stabbing Braig here is Apprentice Xehanort for a couple reasons.
1) Riku pointed out in DDD when confronting Ansem that Ansem had lost, for whatever reason, MX's keyblade.
2) Because the form Xehanorts Heartless, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, took was that of this deformed being:
As pointed out by Young Xehanort this being is Xehanort "reduced to just a heart".
The heartless born from the fateful experiment depicted above.
--------------------------
That is, of course not to say that YX is wrong either one just has to remember that what a heartless truly is at it's core is just that; a heart.
A heart that was cast from it's body+soul and consumed by it's own darkness becoming a void of instinct.
Nonetheless though they are called "heartless" because they lack a sense of self they are still very much just an existence of just a heart.
Which is what Ansem SoD is.
This heartless would later go on to steal Riku's body taking on this form:
------------------------------
It seems like I'm rambling obvious facts here but I assure you I'm not, what I'm doing is pointing out that for a fact the person in that scene is the Apprentice though just a few moments before he turned his keyblade on himself and becoming "Ansem".
Basically the scene is: Apprentice attacks everyone>>>>then braig>>>>>says he is now "Ansem">>>>>turns keyblade on self and becomes the Ansem we know
But doesn't this course of events seem rather odd to you? He was supposed to have amnesia but here he is swinging around a keyblade.
He could've, of course, simply regained memories. He was after all the first subject they experimented on. (Ansem the wise's psychological tests)
But I dont think that to be the case. Diz (Ansem the Wise) points out a couple times in his kh2 secret reports that Xehanort regularly/occasionally displayed "super human" feats.
He also points out Xehanorts curiosity and how he readily, and (implied) quickly, absorbs Ansem the Wise's teachings.
(And while I'm not saying Terra is stupid we must remember the man's no scholar, Xehanort was)
But most importantly there is the matter of Xehanort opening the door/keyhole to Radiant Garden.
In the kh1 reports he recounts this moment which he found and opened the door by following a heartless to it but what's important was that he opened it.
How could he open something that only heartless & keyblades can get into when he isn't a heartless yet nor supposed to be able to remember the keyblade?
Simple, because he remembered, at least remembered something.
All of this, of course, doesn't exactly prove anything (but come on whenever does a theory?) but it does lead one to wonder especially when looking at this quote here:
I find this quote rather stand out, namely the part in bold.
Does it not seem odd phrasing to you? It's no outright confirmation but it is certainly no denial. The wording itself almost makes it seem like Nomura is backing Braigs assumption to me doesn't it you?
If he had really lost his memories wouldn't Nomura point this out? But instead, if anything, Nomura seems to go along with Braig's assumption.
So what do you think? After taking all this circumstantial evidence into account what do you think happened?
Did he truly forget?
Was it merely him being disoriented when Ansem the Wise found him?
Or did he forget only to remember during the experiments?
You decide and tell me what you think. As always I dont mind theories being posted in my own so feel free to be totally open. =3
(seems like I had more to post but lost my train of thought helping my father just now)
Also there are those who go about the eyes but to me this is irrelevant in this case. The eyes and ears are a sign of Xehanorts influence and we know for a certain that Xehanort was within the apprentice so the whole bit of eyecolor doesn't really seem all that important to me here though feel free to add anything revolving your view on the eye bit, I dont mind.
Either way hope you enjoyed at least reading this. ^_^
EDIT:
Something I forgot but if Xehanort never truly lost his memories then that also means something else...that the individuals Terranort, the Apprentice and Ansem, all presumed separate identities of Xehanort are actually all the same man.
Because if Terranort never forgot then he and the Apprentice would obviously be of the same mindset and of course Ansem is the heartless of this man that curiously retained his sense of self as we see him mention in the kh1 reports.
Basically it would mean that rather than separate versions, all three of these people would be Master Xehanort.
All one mindset. (with Xemnas forming his own mindset as he was the nobody born from him)
This is it folks my last boredom thread, I swear, hopefully I've kept some of you at the very least occupied the past two days.
Now then let's get to it!
As you all know at the of bbs following the rather brutal battle between Master Aqua and Terra!Xehanort two things happened:
1) Aqua sank into the dark realm to save Terra
2) Xehanort is fond later with what appears to be amnesia (yet he remembers the name Xehanort)
However #2 has been really called into question as of late, namely this scene from DDD:
^link: #01 | My Name is Ansem - [All Cutscenes - No Subs] Kingdom Hearts 3D [Dream Drop Distance] - YouTube
This scene is that fateful moment that Xehanort and his fellow apprentices under Ansem the Wise became heartless and nobodies as pointed out here:
— Is the first cutscene we see in KH3D a flashback to 10 years before the first Kingdom Hearts when Xehanort and co. lost their hearts in an experiment?
Nomura: That’s right. That’s because in a sense it was the beginning of the story of this title.
Now we know that figure we see stabbing Braig here is Apprentice Xehanort for a couple reasons.
1) Riku pointed out in DDD when confronting Ansem that Ansem had lost, for whatever reason, MX's keyblade.
2) Because the form Xehanorts Heartless, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, took was that of this deformed being:
As pointed out by Young Xehanort this being is Xehanort "reduced to just a heart".
The heartless born from the fateful experiment depicted above.
--------------------------
Spoiler Show
–The initial members of the Organization abandoned their hearts intentionally? Why, now, do they collect hearts?
Nomura: The reason is to have a ‘complete existence.’ KH1’s Ansem (Xehanort, stealing this name) had a purpose, and realizing that he had transcended being a human, turned into a Heartless. Xemnas remembers that purpose, but as a Nobody, ‘an empty shell,’ collects hearts to become complete. The other members of the Organization have their own expectations, but are there mainly for the purpose of collecting hearts to complete Kingdom Hearts, as only Xemnas stared ahead and made it a priority. It is natural that Nobodies, who do not have hearts, demand hearts, though it may seem that Sora’s defeating them is unnecessary, the Organization members don’t look for their own hearts, but collect many from unspecified persons, and use them instead, placing the hearts in a situation where they cannot go back to their origin.
There you have it, Nomura himself calling Ansem a heartless ^
For further quotes pointing it out look here: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-hd-1-5-remix/192114-xehanorts-ansem.html
That is, of course not to say that YX is wrong either one just has to remember that what a heartless truly is at it's core is just that; a heart.
A heart that was cast from it's body+soul and consumed by it's own darkness becoming a void of instinct.
Nonetheless though they are called "heartless" because they lack a sense of self they are still very much just an existence of just a heart.
Which is what Ansem SoD is.
This heartless would later go on to steal Riku's body taking on this form:
------------------------------
It seems like I'm rambling obvious facts here but I assure you I'm not, what I'm doing is pointing out that for a fact the person in that scene is the Apprentice though just a few moments before he turned his keyblade on himself and becoming "Ansem".
Basically the scene is: Apprentice attacks everyone>>>>then braig>>>>>says he is now "Ansem">>>>>turns keyblade on self and becomes the Ansem we know
But doesn't this course of events seem rather odd to you? He was supposed to have amnesia but here he is swinging around a keyblade.
He could've, of course, simply regained memories. He was after all the first subject they experimented on. (Ansem the wise's psychological tests)
But I dont think that to be the case. Diz (Ansem the Wise) points out a couple times in his kh2 secret reports that Xehanort regularly/occasionally displayed "super human" feats.
He also points out Xehanorts curiosity and how he readily, and (implied) quickly, absorbs Ansem the Wise's teachings.
(And while I'm not saying Terra is stupid we must remember the man's no scholar, Xehanort was)
But most importantly there is the matter of Xehanort opening the door/keyhole to Radiant Garden.
In the kh1 reports he recounts this moment which he found and opened the door by following a heartless to it but what's important was that he opened it.
How could he open something that only heartless & keyblades can get into when he isn't a heartless yet nor supposed to be able to remember the keyblade?
Simple, because he remembered, at least remembered something.
All of this, of course, doesn't exactly prove anything (but come on whenever does a theory?) but it does lead one to wonder especially when looking at this quote here:
source: Famitsu Interview Fully Translated - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider-- At what point in time was Xehanort split into Ansem and Xemnas? Was it while he'd lost his memories? --
Nomura: Something happened between "Birth by Sleep" and "Kingdom Hearts". The incident was in the Ansem Reports in "Kingdom Hearts". Whether or not he really lost his memories... Braig doubted as much in the Secret Movie of "Birth by Sleep".
I find this quote rather stand out, namely the part in bold.
Does it not seem odd phrasing to you? It's no outright confirmation but it is certainly no denial. The wording itself almost makes it seem like Nomura is backing Braigs assumption to me doesn't it you?
If he had really lost his memories wouldn't Nomura point this out? But instead, if anything, Nomura seems to go along with Braig's assumption.
So what do you think? After taking all this circumstantial evidence into account what do you think happened?
Did he truly forget?
Was it merely him being disoriented when Ansem the Wise found him?
Or did he forget only to remember during the experiments?
You decide and tell me what you think. As always I dont mind theories being posted in my own so feel free to be totally open. =3
(seems like I had more to post but lost my train of thought helping my father just now)
Also there are those who go about the eyes but to me this is irrelevant in this case. The eyes and ears are a sign of Xehanorts influence and we know for a certain that Xehanort was within the apprentice so the whole bit of eyecolor doesn't really seem all that important to me here though feel free to add anything revolving your view on the eye bit, I dont mind.
Either way hope you enjoyed at least reading this. ^_^
EDIT:
Something I forgot but if Xehanort never truly lost his memories then that also means something else...that the individuals Terranort, the Apprentice and Ansem, all presumed separate identities of Xehanort are actually all the same man.
Because if Terranort never forgot then he and the Apprentice would obviously be of the same mindset and of course Ansem is the heartless of this man that curiously retained his sense of self as we see him mention in the kh1 reports.
Basically it would mean that rather than separate versions, all three of these people would be Master Xehanort.
All one mindset. (with Xemnas forming his own mindset as he was the nobody born from him)
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