HI EXCUSE ME

VEN IS THE REPLACEMENT

THE ARK!!! THE PLACE FROM THE WORLD TERMINUS!!! LAURIAAAAAAM

Ventus fans, don’t worry. We all know Vanitas or whatever Darkness will be blamed ?

Actually I hoped that was not the case but fine... When they made roxas came back from life, I think they would do the cheap way anyways. Now I saw the video, Ventus is so quiet and Skuld is the one arguing. Finally females that is not sidelined

Ok bringing back the machine from the World Terminus is too cool. One the series’ oldest mysteries. I always just assumed it was an early concept for a machine built by the apprentices to separate hearts from bodies.

Is that same place with the poem that Mickey quotes in 0.2?

And here... It... Is. :ROFLMAO:

Shoulda seen this coming a mile away, tbh
(ESPECIALLY after ReMind hammered it home)

Also, glad to see them finally using that secret chamber from KH1. Is that the ark, I wonder?

Just woke up and checked this on a whim. I'll process this when I get up for real. See you then.

I will try to translate from 5:38, this is just rough translation so better wait for proper one but I feel like translating
Chirithy: Here they are
Brain: Thanks
Ven: Brain, Ephemera , You are together all the time? What's the matter?
Ephemera: Two people? ( I think because only ven is intended)
Chirithy: There's no other option
Ven: Hey, do you look at the snow?
Skuld: You said you need to talk but why do you bring us here?
Brain: Well, fine. Then, let me ask something. Who assigned you as a leader?
Skuld : Master Ava
Ven: Yeah, it's master Ava
Ephemer: well, this is wrong? ( I don't know how to translate this sentence properly because it depends on the conversation later)
Ven and SKuld: ?
Brain: Where was Master Ava at that time?
Skuld: It was here
Ven: Mine was ...
Ven: Near the tower
Brain: I see
Skuld: What is this? It feels like interrogation
Ephemera: We have reasons, Skuld
Ven: We are being suspected for something?
Brain: Actually, there was something that only I received from Master Ava
Skuld: That is book of prophecy?
Brain: Yeah, but that's not what's important now
Brain: In this book, there is a memo that is left from Master Ava which contains the names of the 5 union leaders and who is supposed to receive the book circled in red
Skuld: Supposed to? You are not circled, Brain?
Brain: Yeah, actually I realized it when she gave me the book
Brain: Master Ava wants to change the future that is written in the book so she gave me the book instead of supposed one.
Brain: But there is one more thing. The problem is the names of the leaders. There is one person here whose name is not on the list and lauriam's sister Strelitizia name was on the list
Skuld: Huh? Is that also Master Ava's doing?
Brain: I think that's not it. As you know, Strelitzia is going missing which means probably something happened to her. If the replacement of the leaders is also her doing, she don't need to give me the note. Strelitzia missing makes Master Ava suspicious but I don't think she is the person who will do that
Skuld: Maybe because something happened to Strelitizia makes her to appoint another leader?
Brain: Last info on where Strelitizia is seen was before that bell before keyblade war rang. When Strelitzia herself doubts on joining the dandelion but decides to invite player
Brain: Probably because she heard from Master Ava keyblade war was going to happen
Brain: If the replacement happens at that short time, at least there will one person who will be infomed
Brain: At least to me , who received the book
Skuld: Yeah. Lauriam's name was also on the list?
Ephemer: Yeah, and because Lauriam also has Strelitizia's case to deal with, we plan to talk to him after we figured out more
Brain: I wanted to confirm if the replacement realizes that he is replacement or not by the questions just now
Brain: So even if we know the truth, our relationship won't change
Brain: And I discussed with Ephemera
Ephemera: I think he doesn't realize it so for figuring out the cause of this , we need to work together like before
Brain: Ventus , your name was not on the list

Marluxia part will be tranlasted later

And to think the one Maleficent has been trailing in Corona wasn't Sora all along.... oh, and Corona is Latin for "crown", and crowns of laurel leaves are often used to signify high status in ancient Rome or Greece. Sheesh, Nomura, calm down with the royalty symbolism.

Hey didn't the secret reports in 3 say they were planning a second world line jump.


?

Guys, Do you think someone behind the scenes is pretending to be Ava due to what Ventus said?

Maleficent: This place is so guardless
Darkness: Originally, this place isn't allowed to be entered so nobody came in
Maleficent: Not only about the box, you are quite familiar with this place, aren't ya? What's your relationship with this place?
Darkness: An ancient people? ( I am not sure)
Maleficent: And why is that ancient people troubled if I don't return to my era?
Darkness: To be destination
Maleficent: Destination?
Darkness: Originally the residents in the world here does't have a future ( ??? not sure)
Darkness: So if you return to your era , you will become their destination
Maleficent: The resident of this world to the future?
Darkness: No matter what it is, you have no other option than to return to the future
Darkness: Everything else doesn't matter, does it?
Maleficent: Hmph, fine

Darkness: Here
Maleficent: How do get in?

Maleficent: I see

Maleficent: Is this it?
Darkness : Yeah
Darkness: Without further ado, please get inside
Maleficent: It seems like I cant do that
Darkness: You better get back without searching something else ( Searching is searching personal matter something like that)
Door noises
Maleficent: You see
Lauriam: Why are you here?
Lauriam: I may need to defeat you depending on the matter

Darn so it was Ven. I like that they're making it very likely that he was tricked and isn't the murderer of Strelitzia. Ven killing Sterlinzia just clashes too much with how Xehanort described him in his reports.

My current theory is that Darkness is the one that did the deed and who will later implant themself into Ven or be sealed within him, which will later mix with Ven's darkness to create Vanitas. Right now it seem pretty clear that Ven and Darkness are two different entities, with the events of the inspection and infiltration seemingly happening at the same time. Guess Darkness knew Ava appointed the leaders but didn't know where she did it.

Having those chambers reappear is very unexpected. Seems despite meshing well with KH1 Hallow Bastion they aren't actually creations of the apprentices. Guess DDD (or was it coded) already confirmed they weren't used to deheart the apprentices, but cool to see it brought back. Though weren't there only 4 lying directly at the machine with two on the walls?

I think the theory that someone impersonated Ava and gave Ven the rulebook gets more and more likely.

It also looks like Ven doesn't even know he is the replacement.

Also kudos to Blaine handling all this much better and with more care than the original Foretellers. They would have probably already descended into another argument.

Also gotta love Maleficent dissing on the sloppy security of the Foreteller castle.

This is probably me misinterpreting things or restating things that were already known but could the "worlds" we visit in World Terminus in KH1 be data versions of them that were created by the ark that is also there? Or is that not one of the ark's functions?

Poor Ventus. He suffer of some Bipolar Disorder for Vanitas' fault

Damn, I thought I had solved this... Still, a lot of the logic I used applies to this new situation as well.

1. The Master of Masters wants to restore light after it expired. He has created some data worlds and trapped the Dandelions in them. The natural connection for these two things is that he is creating a utopia dominated by light. He locks the device that runs the data worlds into a box, transports it to the far future, and then plans to turn the data worlds into real ones, restoring light. If this is the case, he would want the Dandelion leaders to be as hard as possible to corrupt by darkness. He seems to have used humility as the key characteristic, as can be seen by observing how they react to being selected as leaders. Also, humility is the opposite of pride, the missing deadly sin. Now, since Lauriam is not humble and also ended up becoming a villain, it is clear that he isn't supposed to be one of the leaders. What is wrong here? MoM knows that this simple version of the plan will not work, so he has to adapt it to deal with the problems that have arisen. Lauriam being there must be a consequence of such adaptation.

2. Ven was named as replacement by Ava. If he wasn't, he wouldn't know where to go to meet the others. Also, he would have to deal with a very disapproving Chirithy, who probably would have ratted him out a long time ago. Additionally, Ven told the others what Ava had said to him, and Ephemer & Skuld confirmed this by saying that they got exactly same speech.

3. But Ava was very reluctant to make any changes. Even when she gave the Book of Prophecies to Brain, she also gave him the list of names, so he could see the change and revert it if he thinks it is the right thing to do. So, if she did name a replacement, she would have informed the others about it. Except, if it happened under circumstances where she had no possibility to do so. The battlefield of the Keyblade War provides such circumstances. With Lauriam, I assumed she was mortally wounded when she did it. With Ven, she probably just wanted to save him from being killed in the war.

4. Lauriam's behavior as union leader seems out-of-character to me. He is bending the rules to avoid conflict between the Dandelions, such as delaying re-establishment of the five unions, and shifting Shift Pride from a real combat sport to a video game. Other than that, he isn't doing any leading at all. Yes, he is genuinely worried about Strelitzia, but it seems to be a bit too much for him to neglect his duties because of that. It is also exactly what Ava would want him to do if he was the replacement, which is why I suspected him to be in the heart hotel business.

5. Just to pre-emptively counter any nonsensical speculation about Ven's darkness that is going to follow from this: Xehanort extracted all darkness from Ven's heart when Vanitas was created. Any darkness that is there in KH3 must have gotten there after that event, and therefore cannot be conneted to what happens in KHUx.

So, what do you think? Have I missed something?

Edit: Also, it seems to be proven that the Darkness is Not A Very Dark Darkness. All it is doing is helping to get rid of Maleficent by sending her back to her own time. In fact, it probably is MoM himself stopping by...

Looks like Ventus wielding Missing Ache was symbolic after all. Good on the new Union Leaders for not immediately dismissing Ven after this revelation. This whole Ven and Darkness connection may be a catalyst to bring back Vanitas again.

And with Lauriam confirmed to be a Keyblade Wielder, looks like Elrena is one, too.

[spoiler=Translation]
[Ephemera and Brain wait at the outlook]
???: I brought them~
[Brain's Chirithy hops into frame and onto Brain's lap. Brain puts him down.]
Brain: Thank you.
[Ven and Skuld walk in]
Ven: Brain, Ephemera, you're both here? What's going on?
Ephemera: Both of them?
Brain's Chirithy: Nothin' I could do about it~
V: Hey, did you two see the snow falling?
Skuld: We were told you had something to say, but why are you here?
B: Hmmm, well, whatever. There's something I'd like to ask. Who appointed you as Union Leaders?
S: Ava-sama.
V: Yeah, it was Ava-sama.
E: Nope, that's not right.
S/V: What?
B: Where did Ava appoint you?
S: It was right here.
V: I... was near the tower.
B: ... I see.
S: What is this? Feels like an interrogation.
E: There's a reason for that, Skuld.
V: Is there something you don't trust about us?
B: Truth is, there's something Ava-sama gave only to me.
[Brain produces the Book]
S: That! Is that the Book of Prophecies??
B: Yeah, but the problem isn't that. In this Book, Ava-sama left a note. On it were the names of the five Union Leaders, and originally, one of them was circled.
S: "Originally?" You're not the circled name, Brain?
B: Yeah, I sensed that when I was entrusted with the Book. Ava-sama wanted to change the future written here, so instead of the original Leader, she entrusted the Book to me. But, there's one more problem, in the names of the Union Leaders. Among the five names, one of them isn't in the Union Leaders. Lauriam's sister, Strelitzia's name is there.
S: Huh? Then, Ava-sama changed that too?
B: I don't think so. Strelitzia's whereabouts are unknown. Something might have happened to her. If the Union Leader change is Ava-sama's intention, then it wasn't necessary to give me this note at all. I don't doubt Ava-sama's involvement with Strelitzia, but I don't think she'd do something like that.
S: Maybe because something happened to Strelitzia, another person was appointed as Union Leader?
B: Strelitzia was witnessed just before that bell rang to start the War. Strelitzia, who was hesitation about being a Dandelion, became desperate to invite Player into the Dandelions. Ava-sama probably appointed her as Union Leader, and told her about the Keyblade War. In that short time, if there was a change in Ava-sama's knowledge, she'd have to tell the truth to someone. To me, to whom she'd entrusted the Book to change fate.
S: I see... Was Lauriam's name there?
E: Yeah, it's there. I'm going to tell him we've learned a little more about Strelitzia's case.
B: So with that previous question, someone who was aware they were a replacement would point themselves out. Therefore, knowing the truth doesn't change our relationship. I spoke with Ephemera and decided that.
E: I don't think the person is aware of the change. So to clarify how this mystery came to be, I want us to continue working together as we have until now.
B: Ventus. Your name wasn't on the note.

[Maleficent is in the tower]
M: This place sure lacks security.
Darkness: Originally, entry was forbidden, but nobody's here now.
M: I still don't know what your purpose is, with this ark or with me. What in the world is your concern here?
D: An old, old friend.
M: Then, this old, old friend will be in trouble if I don't return to my original time? Why?
D: You'll mark me.
M: Mark?
D: I told you earlier, didn't I? In order to transcend time, you'll require a body to inhabit, and people who remember you. By nature, nobody in this world will be in the future for that. Therefore, if you return to the future, you'll have marked the people living in this world.
M: To take the people here into the future?
D: In any case, having you return to your own time isn't all. There are other things I can do.
M: Hm! Have it your way.
[Maleficent approaches a large clockwork]
D: Right here.
M: How do I get in?
[Darkness creates a Corridor]
M: I understand.
[Maleficent and Darkness appear in a room with the large machine from the World Terminus in KH1]
M: Is this it?
D: Yeah. Climb in there to quickly return.
[Maleficent gets a sinister look on her face]
M: Actually, I don't think I'll do anything of the sort.
D: I can continue my investigation without you returning.
[A sound like clocks/locks turning comes from offscreen. Maleficent looks behind her. Darkness disappears.]
M: Look at that.
???: What are you doing in this place?
[It's Lauriam]
Lauriam: Do I have to take you down?
[Lauriam summons his Keyblade, Divine Rose]
[/spoiler]

TL;DR
Ephemera and Brain believe that Ava was aware of the change in Union Leaders, but not responsible for it.
Ventus is the replacement, but he was not aware of it and believes it was Ava who appointed him.
Darkness reveals he's helping Maleficent for "an old, old friend" and that her going back to the future will fulfill the requirement of needing someone who remembers you for the people in Daybreak Town.
Lauriam is based.

when I searched for something related to ven I found a statement that also feels strange to me which is ven had said master ava is similar to skuld. If ven doesnt lie and fake ava ia the onw appoints him then that fake ava is similar to skuld? And skuld arguing on everything this time feels strange. Sure, the behaviour is not suspicious at all but sonething just feels strange. I maybe overthinking things and nomura just make the easy vanitas way but..

Edit: I forget it is Brain that said that and Ventus says so master ava is like skuld afterwards,

Lauriam's keyblade is Divine Rose, and Marluxia's data battle in KH2 is in Beast's Castle. You get Divine Rose from Hollow Bastion, that teleporter room leads to Hollow Bastion. Marluxia's motif is about the rose petals, when Maleficent put up thorn bush to lock up Sleeping Beauty and roses are , of course, is about both petals and thorns. It wasn't Sora she was stalking in Corona, it was Marluxia....

I just realize Darkness was walking on the railings without falling. What if they fell off the railing now? Darkness is crazy.

[SPOILER]So let me get this straight.

Travelling to the past requires a version of yourself to be at the destination, and you cannot change the future. (Ansem (as a heart after becoming a heartless) -> Young Xehanort, Maleficent (as a heart after Riku releases it) -> "Data-Maleficent").

Travelling to the future requires something that can grant you a body, and people who have met you at the destination. (Maleficent from UX to KH2, many of the Real Organization XIII members, maybe even the Foretellers through Luxu)

If you travel to the future, should you lose your body, your heart will go back to whence it came (Real Org members like Repliku or Ansem/Xemnas/YX going back to their respective time upon defeat) and it'll forget about what happened in the future.

Nomura is, at the very least, sticking to his own rules when creating a method to get the Dandelions to the future.

Maleficent meets the UX members in the past, so they now have someone that knows them in the present to travel to the future. The question is, what gives them their bodies back? Maleficent had her cloak and the fairies, and the organization had to use replicas, but...

Additionally, are Marluxia and Larxene truly the same as Luariam and Elrena, or was Nomura's quote from before actually literal? After all, removing their hearts should send that heart back to UX like what happens to the Real Org members, no? So the real Lauriam's heart went back to the past, and the nobody Marluxia then just developed his own heart? Unless the Ark does something special in this case...

In that case, I demand we see Maleficent's nobody, Nomura!

So, once Maleficent returns to her time, she will be the reason the leaders can also travel, since she will seemingly meet them and have memories of them, however hidden and etched.

It seems Darkness was the one to tell her about the box. I always thought it was Xigbar until ReMind. So, I guess this truly means Xigbar having the other members look for the box was not a strategic move but a desperate hail marry attempt to protect it.

Also, MoM said that the ancient darkness took on the form of humans, so perhaps this is what darkness did to appear as Ava to Ven. It was also probably the one to connect the data town to the Wreck It Ralph world to give the leaders incentive to escape to another world line.

My questions now are, how much does Xehanort truly know? He released the darkness from Ven and was the one to enlist Maleficent and inform her of time travel to begin with. Is the darkness in league with MoM or his enemy?

This could explain how Ventus ended up in Master Xehanort's time. Seeing (through the eye's gaze) that Xehanort needed somebody containing great light and great darkness to re-enact the Keyblade War, he could've been delivered through this machine as an ideal test subject. Correct me if I'm wrong though!

Also on a side note:
[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/machine-at-the-end-of-the-world.71250/[/URL]

I'm really excited that this person (and everyone else) finally got their answer!

Dang, "An old friend" could be MoM. If Darkness came from where he did, it could have plans against his plans or that play on them. They could even be working together; Or it could be that both of them are using the same means to work against one another. Maybe even that MoM doesn't care about Darkness' plans because they don't matter to his plans in the end.

Hearts in KH contain memories, so maybe something messes with the Dandelion's hearts in the transfer which is why most if not all of them we've seen seem to be amnesiac. Elrena isn't a leader so it's possible that either there are a lot more Dandelion Refugees than thought or that she uses up one of the spaces for either Ephemer or Brain. Scala ad Caelum was built on the ruins of Daybreak, so that could mean that one or both stayed in the past and built Scala; and Ephemera staying would fit with his ghost helping out in the Keyblade Graveyard.

I knew this update would make me think, but not this much I haven't even stated all of my theories

Now I have a sudden urge to play through KH1 again just to visit that room in world terminus. Why does it have to be the only unrevisitable area from The End of The World? ?

THE! THE THING! THE THING FROM THE FIRST GAME! I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT BEFORE GETTING ON HERE HOW IT'S A BUMMER WE NEVER SAW IT AGAIN! AND NOW IT'S RIGHT THERE! ASDFGHJK!

umm. So I went back to look at kh1 and there are only 5 spots on the machine there. Does that mean 2 people already used it? O.o

I'm such a sucker for KH1 that this thing alone is enough to raise my hype to infinity and beyond

I'd like to add that in the Japanese version, the text of the machine was specifically "children" of darkness and not just darkness. Considering how UX chars are mostly children...

Good evening, I sure woke up to a lot today!

can we also account for a second all the boostrap paradox that is happening in this series? first it was old xehanort going back to his younger self and teaching him about the outer world, in remind future sora helps the guardians thus influencing the past, now maleficent a character from the future acts as a catalyst for transportation of ven and the rest which basically causes the rest of kh bbs and beyond to occur in the first place... mind boggling

Uh, I seem to have completely missed this part:

I wonder if Strelitzia is gonna stay dead at this point. Thought the star was maybe something but...yeah

If Luxord ends up being in a pod, then this begs the question:
* Is Luxord originally from KHx/Ux and ended up in Verum Rex;
* Or is Luxord originally from VR and ended up in x/Ux?

[spoiler]I'm still 100% positive Ven is not Strelitzia's murderer. It just doesn't make sense. Even with the new Re:Mind stuff, they reaffirmed that Ven is much too pure, even for his own good. I don't think "Darkness" has anything to do with Ven, as in, I don't think he possessed Ven and killed Strelitzia or has ever made Ven do something he didn't want to do.

I think Ven is "Darkness"'s vessel in the loosest terms possible. If the machine is the arc in the future, then Ven is the arc Darkness uses to reach it.

As for Vanitas, I'm positive that Vanitas is actually a combination of Ven's darkness (the little he had) and whoever "Darkness" is with Sora's influence coated on the very top of it all. It's why his back and forth statements on who he is and who he isn't are literally contradictory.

One moment he says his home is in Ven and he'll disappear if he goes back. In the other, he says he and Ven are not the same and have never been. So the only conclusion I can draw from that is Vanitas is MOSTLY Ven, but a little bit of "Darkness" too. I don't think Vanitas has ever acted on the whims of "Darkness" and I think Vanitas only has a surface level understanding/knowledge that he is more than just Ventus.

At the end of the day (his death), he seems to accept he will always be a part of Ven and Sora (their shadow).

"Darkness", on the other hand, seems to have a much bigger role to play than Vanitas ever has and I hope it stays that way. I do like Vanitas as an antagonist for our heroes, but I also prefer it stay... personal. If that makes any sense.

Been discussing these updates with a pal and I randomly threw out there that baldynort found amnesiac Ven in one of these pods, somehow knew "Darkness" hitched a ride in him, told Ven he was an orphan and he'd be looking out for him but in reality, Xehanort was trying to get "Darkness" to come out but soon realized Ven couldn't do it. Cause it's not Ven's darkness, but literally someone else in there.

Switching topics again. I might be misremembering, but when Ava told Strelitzia to be a new leader, that ALSO wasn't on the hill, was it? She was in town and Ava called out to her and gave her the book. Right? Neither Ven or Strelitzia met Ava on the hill?

Edit: She didn't.

[/spoiler]

I really hope there’s “angst” scenes with Ventus. He lacks confidence and just for Brain to confirm that Ven wasn’t on the list/wasn’t an actual member, will probably kill Ven’s self esteem even more. If I see or hear Ventus calling himself “useless” due to that, I might cry for him.

It makes sense if Subject X is Skuld and that means that Luxu recognizes her in RG and understands that she has ended up there from the past. Now looking at the other characters, then the options he has left to bequeath No Name are Brain and Ephemer since currently they are the only ones we don't know at which time they end up after time traveling. Since Eraqus resembles Brain, it might be that he is a great great(x100) grandson of Brain and it raises the possibility that Brain didn't go that far much into the future

One thing I remembered is that in BBS Xehanort, before inserting his heart to Terra, says Terra is "the ark that will sustain me." . And now, Darkness says the box contain an ark... The ark may not be a device, it could be someone.

[Spoiler]Well, Darkness being a person certainly makes sense. In order for the X-blade to have been forged and then shattered, there'd have to be 13 of them. 7 Lights could be Player + 5 Union leaders + Elrena.[/Spoiler]

I'd love to know if the Thing here and the one in KH1 are actually somehow connected, or if Nomura is just reusing and repurposing the design. Or, are we supposed to understand that the room we went to in End of the World way back when was not, in fact, in Hollow Bastion, but rather Daybreak Town??? That would blow my mind, but I also wonder how it could be possible. End of the World was never a place that facilitated any kind of time travel.

Squirming Evil playing instead of Graceful Assassin, Scythe of Petals or Lord of the Castle hinting for Lauriam is the one who will gonna be rekt hard here...

Flower boy I love you, stop biting more than you can chew gdi

So just a bunch of jumbled thoughts. My brain is in overload right now lol.

After all of this, I wonder what has happened to Ava. I guess Darkness axed her or is preventing her from getting to the data realm altogether. Poor Ventus thinking he was getting the chance to be a union leader but got denied by fake Ava. I don't think Lauriam and Elrena are going to just believe he didn't know about being the imposter though. I'm predicting we're getting some kind of rift coming up soon.

That throwback to the End of the World machine from KH1 tho! I guess we're to assume Xehanort and the apprentices found those chambers and repurposed them for extracting hearts. MoM or Luxu could've been the one who knew where those pods were and influenced Xehanort into looking for them. I'm really going to need Project Xehanort to divulge into his time as Apprentice Xehanort and after. There's a ton of lore there to fill in some blanks during their descent into becoming Nobodies and forming the Organization.

As a random thought, if the Ark requires two points to travel to, is it possible there are multiple machines? There is the one shown there but maybe there's another in Verum Rex's world. We can assume that Luxord is Yozora's driver and was perhaps shot forward with Demyx and possibly Lauriam and Elrena too. He and Demyx could've been from there all along too though so it's hard to say with such little information. Maybe the MoM is from VR and used the machine to travel to Daybreak Town to specifically recruit keyblade wielders from that timeline.

Check out Lauriam being all badass and wielding Divine Rose. I can't see this ending well though. I have this feeling Maleficent and Lauriam are going to strike some kind of deal. Information on Strelitzia in exchange for remembering Maleficient in the future. We have seen Maleficient draw out Riku's inner powers/darkness so what's to say she doesn't do the same to Lauriam and Elrena. Could be an explanation for why they are so different now to their UX counterparts. Imagine those two with their Nobody personalities wanting to overthrow the others and get their own union leaders.

So I think it's actually kind of a jump to assume it's the same machine. I think what's more likely is that what AnsemSoD said is true, Ansem the wise HAS seen Subject X (Skuld's) memories. This machine most likely exists in her memories because it's most likely how she ended up traveling across time. When Ansem the Wise was trying to figure out the mystery behind subject X and looked into her memories he most likely saw the arc and thus he tried to recreate it which is why it's not quite a 1:1 but pretty close. Thus how the arc ended up in hollow bastion, it's Ansem the Wise's copy just like when he copied ENCOM's computer system to make his own. I bet you anything that's also how Ansem the Wise learned to create a datascape, people had taken note that the set up of the Daybreak Town control room was very similar to the digital twilight town computer setup right down to even the chair being similar in design. Instead of a callback perhaps the real truth is he also learned of Daybreak Town's control room and the digital daybreak town and he used that knowledge to build his digital twilight town and computer set up.

Videos and transcripts are up in the OP. As always, thanks to goldpanner for translating! <3

Something I just thought about :

When Darkness first told Maleficent about "the ark", they told her that in order to access it, she'd first have to exit the data world, and go to the real version of the tower, and then find the ark there.

Meaning that, if this machine is really supposed to be the ark, Maleficent, Darkness, and Lauriam must already be in the real world right now.

In turn, this means Lauriam found a way to return to the real world as well.

So either Lauriam found this way back by following Maleficent, or found a way off-screen during his research, or knew how to go back all along and kept it from the others.

Now, I don't think this next part is true for sure, but what if Lauriam is behind the glitches in some form, or at least allowed it to happen, because he was trying to access data on Strelitzia of some kind? Like wanting to see her data form in order to figure out what happened, or maybe just to see her one more time.

In any case, curious to see if this will be adressed? (Or did I misunderstand something?)

Lauriam got tired of progressing his own subplot by himself so he dumped it on the others and went off to do extremely shady business.

All of them were good, but this is easily the best of the 4 updates! Not only we got another great cliffhanger, but more important we finally got some answers.

Ven is the fake leader and the ark is the machine from KH1 End of the World.

No doubt it's just a matter of time, until Sora's crown necklace has some meaning too

Hrm...a theory perhaps. I can see Maleficent using her powers to beat Lauriam, Maleficent is not weak she has a lot of skills and was pretty effortlessly able to capture Data Riku. She also never has been fought alone or at her full power alone. In BBS Ventus had the aid of the three good fairies and she seemed perfectly fine and in the Aqua fight she had the prince and fairies. When Sora fought her

I'm going to propose an idea, Maleficent will defeat Lauriam and then instead of kill him Darkness will tell her he needs to be sent forward in time. Now in doing this his body will be torn to shreds he'll lose himself and become just a heart and without a medium he will not be able to recompile so for a time he will just sort of "exist". Then Maleficent will send herself forward and that will be the end of her part. The union leaders will realize Lauriam is missing and try to find him and that will lead them to getting Elrena involved. Ultimately she will use the arc because she will try to find Lauriam.

I think "forbidden" just mean that the regular Dandelions are not allowed to go inside the tower. It does not apply to the union leaders.

Maleficent's trope is putting people into magical sleep, and Lauriam/Marluxia seems to have learned it from somewhere as well, because he used it on Sora. Perhaps it was from personal experience at the receiving end of it?

Now, here is an interesting thought experiment: Let's undo the change Ava made and give the book and the list of names to Strelitzia like they were supposed to go. What happens, what will be different? I seem to have found something revealing, and I want to see if others come to the same conclusion...

Wait a sec. Im not really follow UX story since a lot of time
There is a recap somewhere?

I played KHIII and not yet the ReMind part. Just watched the Secret Ending on YT.

But Vanitas says Ia am darkness. Is it related to Darkness? I mean, when you defeat him.
Could it be that he recompose as Darkness after that?
If Ventus killed Strelitzia as Darkness, then Darkness becomes Vanitas later. And in the end, after Vanitas disappear, he's again Darkness.

Or I am completely lost?

Oh god, what if Maleficent yeets Lauriam into the machine to test it out.

I’m fairly positive most of the KHUX cast that gets drop kicked into the future do arrive around the same time. Yes Ven is much younger than the others (and we really don’t know what age subject x is at our current time), but he didn’t age for ten years. If the others didn’t become nobodies until closer to KH1, it’d make sense that they appear about 10 years older than Ven.

I am thinking the MoM might be....

[spoiler] One of the last natural pure beings. Remember darkness was born in hearts later after the war over the true light began and now we know he participated in actual original keyblade war. This means the MoM may have been a person who was born without darkness and has a heart devoid of it, a truly pure heart, and wears the coat because unlike the seven hearts he isn't immune to the infection of Darkness so this is how he protects his heart. Likewise I suspect Darkness might be the reverse, one of the original beings of Darkness that fought in the very first keyblade war, a formless infectious force that can hide within people and change shape.

A natural born being of pure light and a natural born being of pure darkness, the only ones of their kind left, and the last survivors of the original war that started it all. I wouldn't be surprised if this ties to the talk of false light, maybe the MoM and Darkness seek to bring back true light and darkness to the world and everyone else who contains both are in their eyes false. Ruined warped beings born in a broken failed world that is at constant struggle with itself.

In that sense that comes back to my theory that the purpose of the coat is to let people of light walk and act as people of darkness, that's why it disguises them and protects them from it. All the org members were false darknesses, lights temporarily lead astray playing a role even Xehanort for a time until he embraced it all. I suspect the reverse is true of the foretellers they are false lights, destined darknesses who were delayed from their destined path and played the role of guardians when truly they were seekers/destroyers. The DLC entries state they all wear white robes...now like it's kind of a stretch IMO to call them white robes but you at least get the parallel that they are a reverse organization of sorts.

I think maybe this connects to the dream eaters as well. The old organization, Xehanorts plans, they were all about the heartless and nobodies really. The Foretellers however are tied to the dream eaters, represented best by their Chirithy helpers they all have...but also in the fact that they dress a brightly colored animals. Dream Eaters are interesting because they are not light they are darkness, but they are darkness that takes on two forms. Benevolent spirits that consume the darkness and return it to light, creating happy dreams and wicked nightmares that imprison and draw things deeper into sleep and darkness. This goes back to my whole Foretellers are actually darkness and always were, they were false lights which MoM gave a chance to lead the world for a bit and they destroyed it which is what he is alluding to with YX when he says letting false light lead is a lousy idea.

I'm sure this ties to Yozora as well, if MX was a scapegoat, a falsity, then it stands to reason Sora who was his parallel is the same a stand-in, someone who isn't a true king of light. A false hero for a false villain, Yozora meanwhile is the true king meant to be the parallel to the MoM even though we haven't yet fully established it. Xehanort posed a question to Sora, if the world need someone to lead it then who if not him, and Sora didn't have an answer for that only that he could tell Xehanort wasn't the right one. Maybe Yozora is or maybe the end message will be that the world doesn't need a leader at all and that it needs to stop being held back by these relics of an era already long gone, who knows.... [/spoiler]

Wow...I need to catch up on this...haven't even played it.

Praying to god Candy is at least a boss in this though. Gaston, i understand why not but come on, PLEASE make Cybug Candy a boss.

Now I haven't played this because I just think its silly to have to pay a mobile game to understand half of KH3 and so on and so forth.

I feel like no one's addressing the most obvious questions there are to make given the reveal.

If Ven truly is the replacement, yet he also isn't the killer, then what in world is he DOING HERE? The natural conclusion would be that someone posed as Ava and gave Ven his rulebook, but.... Why? Assuming this is the same person who killed Strelitzia, what was the purpose of setting up this switch in the first place? Why choose to swap her out with Ventus of all people? Why bother to swap her out at all (especially since we now know she didn't even have the BoP)?

It's not like Ven could've hepled carry out some secret agenda, because up until now he was kept completely oblivious to the fact that he was even planted to begin with. He was never going to have the BoP either (and the culprit should've already recognized this since, again, Strelitzia clearly didn't have it when she died), so it's not like he had the agency or knowledge to change the future in any kind of way once he was appointed. He's not shown to be particularly smart, proactive, or confident about his abilities or his judgement. In fact, Ventus himself was confused about why he was ever approached about being a Union Leader when he was so "unremarkable" when it came to performing his duties (and the fact that he seemingly didn't have any friends prior to meeting Ephemer and Skuld, makes it hard to think he would've had strong charisma or leadership skills). In other words, it was virtually impossible for his presence to make a real impact on the situation outside of drawing suspicion, but even Ephemer is content to just working together to solve the mysteries of their "cage" like they were before this topic came up. Nothing changed.

To be blunt, if a third party swapped out Strelitzia with Ven, it doesn't seem to amount to... anything. Unless Ven does something big that only he can do (which, as we've established, isn't much), I don't see why he would've been planted into this group at all. It's redundant.

Well, the real answer to the questions about why Ven is the replacement is that he isn't. Skuld is; I explain this at length in another thread but a good quick argument is this : watch Skuld closely a) When Brain brings out the BoP, b) When he mentions Strelitzia, c) When he reveals Ventus's name wasn't on the note. Obvious shock at a), c), no visible shock at b).

I am quite confident of that but if Ven were the replacement, I can still offer you some possible answers.

Do we know which union Ven was in before he became a Dandelion? I know the game doesn't contain that information, but do secondary sources?

I guess it is better than him being confirmed in "wrong" union for the theory...

When I got into solving this mystery about half a year ago, one of the first things I read about it (on Reddit, IIRC) was a theory about wrong victim. Now it seems like this theory is the correct one.

Here is what I think happened:
Ira was after Gula and the lost page. He was blinded physically by the poor lighting conditions in the building, and mentally by the sin of Wrath, the one of his own name. He mistook Strelitzia for Gula and struck her down. Then he picked up the book and realized it was not the Book of Prophesies, but a union leader's rulebook. A few very sincere f-words later, he thought he must do his best to correct his mistake. He disguised himself as Ava (Note the symmetry, we have seen Ava as fake Ira before), and went looking for a Dandelion. He didn't know many of them, but he knew those who were originally in his union. Ven just happened to be the first one he encountered.

To my understanding this matches everything we have. It doesn't require any unseen information leaks or unknown actors behind the scenes. It also works with my theory that Lauriam is the one who was supposed to be killed. I guess Lauriam is somewhat less similar to Gula than Strelitzia was, he is taller and wouldn't hold the book in his hand, but I think it is still plausible.

Also, let's do a traitor count. Aced, Gula, and Invi started the conflict that escalated into the Keyblade War. Aced also had plans of overthowing the others and becoming a king, while Gula planned summoning Kingdom Hearts (and the destiny chess players mention that it was actually summoned during the war). Ava gave the book to wrong person, and also struck the first blow of the war, causing the bells to ring. Luxu opened the box to read the book, and by doing so exposed the data worlds inside it to the outside world. This lead to the Wreck-It Ralph world connecting, glitches from there getting in, and Brain realizing that they are still in data Daybreak Town instead of the real one. That's five of them. It seems obvious that the final answer is supposed to be six out of six. If Ira is the killer we get that, and I don't think he has done anything else that would count as traitorous.

Why did Luxu read the Lost Page in the first place when part of his role was exactly to NOT know anything in regards to content of the BoP?
If Luxu did read it, he'd violated the boundaries of his role, wouldn't he?

All of this is making me wonder what really was the purpose of killing Strelitzia. I remember she had a sense of purity and innocence but there’s not much else known about her. Is it she possible she’s a princess of heart? Maybe that’s why she got the BoP instead of someone else? Whoever took her out, essentially killed two birds with one stone. Got the book and destroyed a PoH. Sure, the PoH power could’ve moved to someone else. However in the end, we still had children murdering each other and the world ending so new candidates could’ve been very limited. What if Darkness (or whoever) was trying to prevent the possible use of the seven pure lights so it killed Strelitzia as a backup plan? Then again she could just be an unfortunate victim and Im reading too much into it lol. But it just feels there’s more to this whole thing with her.

Since there’s many posts to quote on Luxu, I’ll just note it here separately. Aside from the fact there’s an X in his name and not the other Foretellers, his facial scar and eyepatch do form an X (a possible recusant’s sigil?). It didn’t jump out at me right away but yeah there might be something up there. I do believe Luxu followed MoM’s orders but think he started doing some things on his own too at some point. Besides, you can’t tell me the MoM isn’t going to be like “Luxu, you’re looking a little bit more evil than usual.”

The thought of Luxu being added to the list of possible traitors gave me a mental picture of the MoM being asked who the traitor was and he slowly points at someone, then someone else and so forth, revealing that everyone ended up being a traitor in their own way.

I did notice something linking the foreteller traitor stuff to KHUX today.

Another thing Gula did that wasn't allowed was to reveal the contents of the Lost Page to two people, just as the bells rang out. These two people were Player and Skuld. I think she would be the only new union leader to know about the Lost Page.

I have expanded my theory to explain the virus. Here's the TL;DR version:

The true virus is Player, because they were not a Dandelion and hence hadn't been 'coded' into the MoM's program. As the Keyblade War was beginning, Skuld invited Player to join the Dandelions but they said no. Skuld took them to to the new worldline anyway. More reason to label Skuld the killer/replacement.

I do have a little evidence for this already and will try to find more.

Thank you AdrianXXII. I keep trying to place a character in the role of the killer of Strelitzia, but it has to be Darkness. I believe Darkness also has the ability to shapeshift, and maybe appeared to Ven in the shape of Ava to induct him into the Dandelions. Darkness needs a vessel to move forward in time, and it will be Ventus.

What I don't get is why have two siblings (Laurium and Strelitzia) be on the list of the Master of Masters? I have such a hard time getting past this. It doesn't make any sense.

The storyline is getting way too confusing lately. First we hear of worldlines, and now an ark? Which is it? Why would Darkness even lead Malificent to the ark machine, when he/she already mentions that it was never fully complete? Now we know why Malificent is hesitant to get inside. Question though, when she finds the machine, is she in digital Daybreak Town or real world Daybreak Town?

The word "ark" is being thrown about in two different ways. First a machine, and then the line from BBS, "And now it is your darkness that shall be the ark that sustains me." If we go off of the second option, Ventus would be the "ark" for Darkness. Will other characters witness this event, and follow suit? Maybe that's the key instead of moving forward in time? What if nobody uses the machine at all?

I know that Ephemer will not make it, possibly struck down by Ventus/Darkness in the keyblade graveyard. Maybe a connection to the Dark Inferno? and Brain needs to go on to rebuild Daybreak Town into Scala ad Caelum and be the lineage of Eraqus. Which leaves Skuld, Ventus, and Laurium?

I still think that Grand Central Station in the Wreck it Ralph world is a bigger key to getting to the outside world.

Guys, if you check quest 60 and you’ll see a cloak figure standing on the towers. No one saw that?
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I think it was meant to be a hint to Invi's role as the observer.

Perhaps at the time Nomura did not have a clear idea, but maybe he meant that the Five get out of Data!Daybreak Town and then some jump a Worldline?

The term "world line" is still a bit vague as far as what it truly defines.

Given what we know I think that it makes most sense for it to mean from a data world line to the RoL world line. It is still unclear what the device Maleficent has found truly is. Seeing as how Lauriam is also there it most likely exists in the data world, meaning that machine might be a way to escape the data worlds. However Darkness has described the ark to be in the castle which is supposed to be a way into the future. In which case this device may be accomplishing both methods. Regardless, the Five will find a way out of the Data Cage, and at least three characters will jump into the future.

What I am currently thinking is that the five who jump out of this cage and into the future are going to be Lauriam, Elrena, Skuld, Ventus, and Brain. Ephemer stays behind and remains trapped in the Data Cage along with the rest of the uber powerful Dandelions. (I also feel like this Data Cage is what the Black Box contains). This could possibly explain why he appears before Sora during the Keyblade War alongside a whole bunch of Keyblades. As for the other five, I definitely feel like something will go awry with the machine causing it to malfunction and scatter them across space and time. Brain will be the first to emerge, and be the one to establish the new order of Keyblade wielders who will build Scala from the ruins of Daybreak, with the main goal of being to protect the light. I also feel like Brain will be the one to receive No Name which would make sense for the way we know history will unfold. Then later on the other four emerge, scattered across the real worlds, with no memory of their past lives. Skuld lands in Radiant Garden, where she becomes Subject X. Lauriam and Elrena are unknown, but emerge presumably together and stick together until becoming members of the Organization. Ventus emerges in a place where he is quickly found by Master Xehanort, perhaps Scala?

Hopefully Dark Road will expand on the World of Scala.