this totaly took me by surpise i guess they damon waynes for some reason all well it not a big loss i guess

CAN YOU FEEL MY APATHY AND DISDAIN. No wonder Fred wasn't in the announcement.

But he's secretly a good guy, y'all. /s

Can’t believe I called that. Of all the dumb theories I’ve proposed since I’ve been here, this would be the one that comes to pass. D:

you jinxed it, zip!

I guess I completely missed all the news about him, cuz I went from "yay another original voice actor" to "oh no, another harasser and crappy person" after reading up on it *sigh* Now I wish they did just use the show voice.

Separate the work from the actor, who really is a good person, to be honest. Most people are misinterpreting and/or not looking into things well enough. Either way, the voice acting should not be judged based on this.

No one is criticizing his acting skills at all. All of the backlash here is in response to the harrassment, assault, etc.

He’s a solid comedian and a solid actor, but I’m not going to be happy that between the harassment and assault claims against him and the god damn false bomb threat he actually committed, he had time to come in and record for KH3.

Sorry. I worded that wrong. Saying one wishes it was now a different voice actor due to these past news stories on the man, is what I was getting at that should not be done. You're judging the voice actor himself and not the quality of his voice acting, which is kinda redundant and pointless seeing as though the man has been out of jail for months, didn't really hurt anyone, and is still getting work regardless. Again, separate the work from the man, or you might as well not enjoy a lot of talent that's out there, even though I personally view Miller as a good person myself.

Next you're gonna say Bill Cosby should be starring in a new family sitcom from jail.

Actions have consequences, and like it or not, he's going to be criticized for them just like James Woods has been.

Look, even SE and Disney didn’t want to have him in the announcement and it is very clear why. We all have to deal with it and we will all likely still enjoy the game. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be critical about the people involved in the media they consume.

I'm not saying actions like that shouldn't be criticized in general (even though I am of the belief that he didn't do anything, myself).......I'm saying it is more mature to separate those critiques from the work because it has nothing to do with the voice acting for Fred. That's all. To say you all of a sudden prefer another voice over the original just because of alleged allegations is ridiculous, to me at least. But hey, to each their own, I guess. I personally love the guy and can't wait to hear him when the game is released.



No, I'm not because that makes no sense.

Well .... that came by fast.

I don't think its more mature to be aware of people's failings and wanting them to have actual consequences for their actions. The consequence here being they just use the other VA they already had for the character. And I mean, "alleged" is sorta a loaded term, statistically the allegations are probably true, unfortunately. Like I assume you are coming at this in a "innocent until proven guilty" sorta way, but this sorta thing happens far too often, and its extremely rare for the allegations to be false.

I'm not happy about that, as I do think he is a good VA. I'm not gonna like boycott the game or anything. Just don't like my money going to people who do crappy things without at least being punished for it. That's why we have a legal system in the first place lol.

Disney is so weird with who they choose to reprise roles, Hayden and Billy can't come back as Kairi and Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, but James Woods and T.J. Miller can as Hades and Fred? I suppose those two Disney characters are heavily affiliated with their voice actors, but that's as far as I can see with the justification of this news.

These things happen too often in the past year mainly and it's mostly all lies. So, yeah, it makes perfect sense to have that innocent until proven guilty mindset. Alleged is the word that very much defines the accusations and most BS accusations out there today. Besides, if he really did it, he'd be like most people who are guilty and leave the internet/industry in silence. It's very mature and important actually, to learn to separate the artist from the work despite their mistakes (again, even though I believe he's a good person). If everyone shunned people for all things in their pasts or all alleged accusations of their pasts, their would be so much more negativity than there already is. It's a damn shame seeing so much of it lately too. Breaks my heart. I, for one, will move forward with continued support for TJ Miller in this game as Fred and all his future endeavors.

Its probably like they said before, they offer the Disney roles to the original actors no matter what and these two took it. Billy hasn't been Ansem for ages so that isn't surprising. They recast a ton of the side characters, namely FF, in KH2 so it isn't like he was the only one as well.

The whole Kairi thing is a bit confusing still. It is sorta strange if they decided now of all times to not view Hayden as the main actress even though they jumped at the chance to bring her back for like 2 lines in the handheld titles lol.

Yeah it doesn’t make much sense, particularly with Hayden. I wonder if the contracts are different for original characters?

Nope. Statistically speaking, they're not mostly all lies at all.

TJ Miller has a bad track record across the board in different capacities. If you don't want to believe that, that's fine, but separating the art from the artist is kind of a privileged viewpoint to take during times like these. The perpetuation of bad actions tends to be tied with power dynamics which come from, you guessed it, money and status. So, yeah, plenty of people are going to want him to lose his job, especially because his voice is the same stoner voice than 90% of somewhat experienced male voice actors can replicate with ease.

A quick google search says the FBI estimates there are only about 8% of sexual assault charges that are fake. And thats just one source, but I thought it was the most notable brought up. That doesn't sound like its happening all that often at all to me.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45565684

And again, I said that maybe I would be more forgiving if there were actual repercussions. I don't think its mature at all to just forgive people when they had none, its naive. It just lets them think they can get away with it again. Nothing will get better if you just ignore that.

Now I dunno, if you are talking about the James Gunn sorta deal, where they randomly decided to give him repercussions a decade late and after he had already tried to change himself, then that's quite different and I agree that was ridiculous. Its the part where he actually changed that is key, though.

Respectfully disagree with you on all points. I've seen wayyyy more liars (a recent example being the lady that tried to ruin Chris Hardwick's life) in recent times and there's no proof on not only a majority of them, but not on Miller as well. TJ Miller has made a few mistakes, and so have many people, the allegations not being one of them. I'm not gonna single him out for his other mistakes, nor do I believe in the BS accusations. I don't see the privileged nature of it at all. In this particular case, the actions of the individual does not affect the quality of their work, a la voicing Fred. Think. Did Roman Polanski molest children? Yes. Did he still make an amazing film and get a standing ovation for it after the fact in 2003? YES, because was talented and people knew how to be mature and separate the artist from the work. It's called being an adult. Do I personally like Polanski for what he did? No. But, he did good work that deserves to be commended. That is the same here. I'm excited for the VA work that will be provided for Fred via Miller and it deserves the praise, despite his past (even though, again, I believe Miller is a good person). To each their own if they don't like his voice over another, but you can't sit their and relate it to the fact of his past troubles (whatever it is you want to believe on them). The perpetuation of bad actions is closely tied, but not always caused by the things you mentioned. Sometimes, yes. But, always? Hardly. Differing views, though. Can't be helped. And I don't know what you're hearing in terms of the quality of voice, either. He's got one of the most recognizably unique voices I've ever heard, which is also why I'm excited for it and his future material. So, believe what you will. I'll believe what I will. Either way, let's all just be hyped for KH3.



Well I've seen different compared to your one google search. Nobody said to ignore what they've done, but it's actually possible to forgive people, you know, without them doing the thing again. In fact, I forgive people all the time and they've not done whatever bad thing it is again. So,...not really naive, but it's also based on my own personal experiences. You don't ignore. You forgive, but never forget. That's being mature in my book. And in my experience, 95 percent of the time, it gets better, repercussions or not. To each their own based on what they've seen though, I suppose.

As for Gunn, yeah, agreed. He changed. For Miller, nothing was proven, at all in regards to his allegations, so therefore, I am under the belief that he is a good person, despite the one or two minor mistakes he's made. We've all done dumb shit before. Nothing to try and ruin people's careers/lives over unless it really is some pure evil type shit, which neither Gunn nor Miller has presented in their actions to me. Both wonderful people at heart.

wheather you think tj millar innocent or nor please don't double post

This is such disgusting news to wake up to. Urg, fuck TJ Miller. I can’t believe Disney went to him when Brooks excellent at voicing Fred. Even Square Enix seems ashamed of having him involved with the game :/

Get ready for "art vs artist" debate and excusing awful people for their actions...

Cuz it's about to go down.

oh that guy from How To Train Your Dragon? in a Kingdom Hearts game?

Good lord. I liked it better when you shitposted.

Having a really tough time processing this for some reason. Not sure I can qualify my feelings about TJ Miller's involvement in KH3 one way or the other rn (too loaded maybe) but I can say I really hate the systems that make it possible for abusive people to go about their business unchecked, meanwhile there aren't nearly enough mechanisms in place for supporting, elevating and empowering survivors of abuse who have had their lives disrupted by it.

Well

Well, thats surprising

Excuse me for being a bit ignorant, but what did he do?

Whatever it is, it's sad, if it was criminal I hope he gets his eventually, but it won't stop me from enjoying the game.

Just got a call. They're not using Miller. They're asking me to do it. I'm going to be "Fred" in Kingdom Hearts III. So... Look forward to that, I guess. I don't really want to do it, I've got some stuff going on, but I guess it's just one of those things where it's better that I do it than Miller... So yeah. Look forward to hearing me. (I'm also recording it from home on a usb mic so it's not going to sound great)

really? and your willing to voice him?

lol it launchpad being launchpad

well good luck recording there man.

Well he's an original voice actor & that's a good thing I guess. As long as political stances don't delve into the work then I can overlook for the sake if kingdom hearts

I said this before, and saying it again, I'm quite surprised to see T.J. Miller coming back to voice Fred in Kingdom Hearts III. Although much like with James Woods, he will voice the character again but I’m not expecting Disney and/or Square Enix to put his name in the press releases and promotional material due to his actions he’s been getting lately (e.g. Sexual allegations, Work misconduct allegations, getting arrested, making a fake "bomb" threat) just to avoid bad publicity/press.

As Oracle Spockanort said, w

e all have to deal with it and still enjoy the game rather than leading to a boycott on the game over something that is really isn't worth fighting for.

I'm still interested and also perplexed why people demand Billy Zane to come back as Ansem when he hasn't been voicing him since the first game. I can understand that Billy is superior to Richard Epcar when it comes to Ansem in terms of the acting and voice but honestly can't anyone just learn to accept that he's not coming back not to mention he's not been in any more big projects ever since he starred in Valley of the Wolves: Iraq.

Dope, if true. Wouldn't put it past him to say he was in it if he wasn't though.

the real milkshake duck was theprofessional all along

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.J._Miller%23Legal_issues_and_controversies&ved=2ahUKEwiF8uW39sPeAhU9wcQHHXDICIsQpYkCKAMwGHoECAAQBg&usg=AOvVaw1URaWq9KkDfg_KeaHSAgoy&cshid=1541650223715

I honestly didn't know about this either until I read this thread. :/



It tells me SE/Disney is more concerned about Disney characters retaining their original VA's than that of the original KH series characters.

KH1 and KH2 only had about a 3 and a half year gap between each other and the devs/voice department were willing to part with Billy Zane as Ansem, the main villian of the first game.

KH3 and Big Hero 6 had a slightly over 4 year gap and (supposedly) are willing to bring back the original voice actor of Fred, a minor side character in a Disney film.



What it means to "be an adult" is a constantly changing model as people's standards and morals, as to what we as a society consider acceptable, is always an ever evolving ideal. There is no set standard of what ideals adults must carry and misdeeds to overlook to be considered "an adult".

And tbh, I know what film you're talking about, and when I first saw it, at the time not knowing much about the director, I thought it was a good film also. It made me feel very conflicted and somewhat guilty once I found out about it, and I can honestly never even think of it comfortably ever again. It in no way could ever redeem and ever overshadow the crime he did; that had he not fled the US and had any position in power, would have ever been able to even make the film to begin with.

Not sure what's got you upset when I'm just engaging in conversation for once, but okay then. I've never "shitposted" either.

Not sure what's got you upset when I'm just engaging in conversation for once

I think it's because you are saying somewhat controversial things in a slightly condescending way.

For example:

Respectfully disagree with you on all points... people knew how to be mature and separate the artist from the work. It's called being an adult.

Your language wasn't particularly respectful here, I think. Not to mention you made a few sweeping statements about those who report about misconduct and seem to believe it is, as you called it, "mostly false BS". You dismissed a reported number and linked study to prove that most statements people make are actually true, and instead said your view of the opposite was substantiated by what appeared to be anecdotes and a few particular cases. If you are skeptical of every accusation that comes forward, that is up to you, but I don't think it is right to say others who are doubtful and/or seek consequences for those accused are being immature by finding it distasteful.

In Japan, it is often very difficult for women to come forward and say things still, so I am very proud of those in America who are able to. I think the reason you are seeing a rise in accusations are because now we are beginning to feel more comfortable in discussing it, not because we are coming out lying in droves. It makes me very sad to hear you believe most are untruthful, but I understand if you still feel that way.

(I don't actually know anything about Miller, nor what he was accused of, and I barely remember what his character even sounds like in English, but I assume it is something related to a sexual misconduct case?)

Some people can enjoy works done by horrible people. Some can't. That isn't a failing one way or the other. Wagner was a terribly racist man, but wrote wonderful operas. If some film, for example, chose to include an opera created by him I personally wouldn't mind. But if someone were to boycott his works entirely, saying it just makes them too uncomfortable, I would understand that as well. That's kind of the point of art, that people can be as subjective as they like with it.

In regards to Miller, you said yourself:

He's got one of the most recognizably unique voices I've ever heard...I am under the belief that he is a good person...Both wonderful people at heart.

That is perfectly fine if you want to believe that, but you are clearly a huge fan and are very heavily biased as a result. You want him to be given a chance because you like him. Others, who aren't as big of a fan are looking in at the situation with a much different light and it then makes sense for them to be kinda iffy about him being included in the project.

I hope as well that his inclusion will not taint the experience of KH3 for too many people, because so many others have been working very hard on the project and I don't think it would be too fair to hold everyone involved accountable for one person's error, but I sympathize very much with those who are concerned and disappointed with him filling the role.

Geez, this blew up as much as James Woods.

TJ Miller has done a lot of stupid shit, but I like Fred. I'm glad he gets his original VA just like Hades.

I'm biased, but also logical. And I believe most these women speaking out are untruthful because of the sheer fact that they are proven to be untruthful after the fact. Not all of them, but a lot of them. I even gave an example. And think what you will, but I'll keep my stance about it and separate the artist from the work provided. I don't sympathize with anyone who wants to act that way about it, especially when nothing's even been proven against the guy. It's immature, in my personal opinion, and that opinion won't change. TJ Miller, among many other artists I enjoy with controversial mistakes they've made in the past, have my support.

Exactly, even if the likes of James Woods, TJ Miller and Johnny Depp (if he's in KH3) have done stupid actions,

w

[COLOR=#333333]e all have to deal with it and still enjoy the game as a game rather than continue quarreling which will soon lead to a boycott on the game over something that is really isn't worth fighting for.

Which is the reason why the James Wood thread rocket fired leading to the topic thread almost being derailed and you know how that went.

Now if you excuse me:

[/COLOR]

I'm biased, but also logical. And I believe most these women speaking out are untruthful because of the sheer fact that they are proven to be untruthful after the fact. Not all of them, but a lot of them. I even gave an example.

Isn't being biased being emotional and the opposite of logical? Maybe I don't understand the connotation properly.

And I still wanted to assert that while if you choose to believe they are mostly fake you are well within your right, but the facts actually state the opposite, so it is a bit unfair to say that them being fake is a "sheer fact". (I am choosing to believe the numbers reported by the FBI are factual and that false allegations are indeed <10% of all allegations).
Naming one example is using one anecdote from within that 10%...

I'm very sorry to be butting in. I don't like causing disagreements and I hope we can all at least agree that we are looking forward to the future with hopeful eyes.

damn TheProfessional coming out as an expert on women's perspectives and being able to surgically decipher when they're lying about assault is truly a plot twist no one saw coming

Despite your assertion, I do not believe the "facts" from the FBI state the opposite. It is a sheer fact, based on almost all accounts that I've seen, that most of them are proven fake. It's all for money or trying to ruin lives. I wouldn't trust the FBI with my life, let alone anything else they wanna try to pull. But, again, you believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe what I want to believe, as we, like you said, look towards the future with hopeful eyes.



Not once did I imply that I'm an expert on women's perspectives, only that I've seen a majority of accounts where the allegations have been proven fake and/or not proven at all. So, from what I personally have witnessed, it's mostly BS.

Except it is not mostly BS. I fail to understand why your discrediting women reporting sexual assault to justify T.J. Miller reprising this role.

It's hard to seperate art from the artist if said artist has done objectively horrible things. The lengths that you're going through to defend him is baffling.

That's the main crux of the issue: people have different ways and different strenghts when it comes to "dealing with it" that understandably has an impact on their capability to enjoy the game, and usually the "quarreling" comes from those who come in to tell people how they should feel and think. Otherwise, it's just people lamenting the surfacing of an issue with the game they're expecting.
And I don't recall anyone among them resorting to boycott.

And again, "worth fighting for"... leave that to each person to decide. People have very different moral and ethical codes and inner strenghts needed to digest news like these. If some struggle with accepting certain facts more than us, it's not up to us to pass judgement.
Between Woods, Miller, Bell and whatever new point is made in that Quinton Flynn thread every other month KH III will have no shortage of uncomfortable moments for some.
But since the game isn't in any serious danger of being boycotted, everytime someone comes and say "you HAVE to separate this!" I think it's not really that they're concerned about the game or this specific person mentioned, but more like they are bothered by the people that are bothered by it.
This is less about proving what an individual has done or not, we aren't a court of law, and more about respecting others' feelings to me.

And this comes from someone who took a lot of time realizing and accepting this so there's no moral high horse behind my words, just an advice.
Like, erase faces, names and politics and just think if some of your worst fears and most hated concepts will be in KH III, and I'm not talking about bad game design or laggy animations, I'm talking about real life issues. Would you take kindly to someone telling you to just deal with it?

This, I think, is an important way to look at it.

By way of example, I struggled to deal with one of the worlds of Dream Drop Distance. La Cite De Cloches, the Hunchback of Notre Dame world, where the slur "gypsy" is thrown around constantly. My grandmother fled Germany during WW2 to escape Nazi persecution of her caravan, her people, and was no stranger to the word. My grandmother raised me on stories of what that felt like, and I developed a heavy dislike of the slur. It may not affect most people, but hearing it constantly in the game is really hard, especially when Esmerelda refers to HERSELF as one. It's possible for someone to not feel what I feel, but respect how uncomfortable it makes me. If someone were to tell me to just deal with it, I'd say they were more cold and unempathetic than "mature".

It may not affect most people, but hearing it constantly in the game is really hard,

I'm very sorry that you had to deal with that. And I agree it would be quite disrespectful to both you and your grandmother to say that your discomfort isn't valid.

Lastly, TheProfessional...
I think we are going to disagree until the very end. I've already said my piece on the topic of these supposed false allegations, but I just wanted to suggest to you, if have some time, to please check out the Wikipedia article at least on "False accusation of rape" (I'll try to link it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape )

It has a very comprehensive compilation of multitudes of studies and their findings on the exact percentages of cases determined to be "unfounded" or "unproved" that you can research at your leisure (listed under the references at the bottom of the page).

There is also a very good section of data from 2006 that summarizes nearly every study done and their results on the topic.

I don't know by what facts you have determined your own opinion, or if you have sources other than those listed on the page there, but stated in the summary: "while researchers and prosecutors do not agree on the exact percentage of cases in which there was sufficient evidence to conclude that allegations were false, they generally agree on a range of 2% to 10%.^[1] Due to varying definitions of a "false accusation", the true percentage remains unknown..."

I think it is very wonderful that we live in an age where such comprehensive information is so readily accessible!

Sorry for the bother, again.

TJ Miller has not done many horrible things, from what I can tell, very minor mistakes that didn't hurt anyone. And the allegations never went anywhere, likely because they were BS, like most of the stories that I HAVE SEEN are. I'm not discrediting all women, just the bullshitters, because let's be honest, there are a LOT. And I'll defend a good person til the end, which I believe he is.

Statistics are not always true, are half true, or are doctored in some cases, not all, but some. So I do not trust them, especially from wikipedia articles. I believe directly from the sources involved that I hear from, in which most cases, the accusers are full of it, due to wanting money or wanting to ruin a genuinely good person's life. They either go silent or admit it once they can't prove it, and that's what I choose to believe. No bother. Engaging conversation/debate is healthy.

I'm verry sorry this wasn't meant to be an attack at you nor to anyone and neither am I defending the actions of these people that done these stupid things.

And again sorry for taking this way to far.

I'm still waiting for counter studies or evidence proving your anecdotes to be true theprofessional. Multiple people in here have provided links proving their point with hard math and studies that back up their claims. All you have is "Well, IIIII don't think he's a bad guy. I think they're lying. Their accusations don't seem true to me."

Maybe you should take a step back and think about how you sound. You said you aren't claiming to be a professional on this topic, but you are. You turn away evidence and proof from actual professionals who studied this topic and claim your 'evidence' or feelings are worth more than cold hard logic and reality. The math says majority of accusations are true. After looking at probably thousands and thousands of cases, they added it all up and realized, "Most of them are true."

You on the other hand have nothing to back you up other than what you feel. That is not logic. Denying reality is not logical.

"Separate the art from the artist". Of course people will still love this game AND dislike TJ Miller for being in it. That is the act of separating the art from the artist. That's not what you want. You want people to forgive the artist or pretend the accusations against him don't exist or are fake. That's not "Separating the art from the artist", that's just ignorance.

We are here today on this forum, on the internet, safely in our homes or work place with electricity and heating/cooling because professionals did math and engineering and studied statistics and figured out how reality works so we can have all these nice things. The planet hasn't suffered another bubonic plague killing 2/3s of the entire earth's population because professionals studied diseases and stats and concluded the best way to control diseases and outbreaks.

We are getting Kingdom Hearts 3 because developers know C+ or C# or whatever programming language they're using based on the very foundation of math and engineering. It is a part of life. Don't turn away from math, stats and science because it goes against how you feel.

I think kirabook made some very great points, and I also think this is probably the best place to end the topic at.

I do want to make a final remark, though:

TJ Miller still called law enforcement on a woman and claimed she had a scarf on and a bomb in her purse while drunk. People don't do that kind of stuff drunk without having some kind of already-existing racial and/or gender bias against a group of people that would be heightened though inebriation thanks to impaired function of the frontal lobe, which regulates our judgement and impulse control.

His attentions on that woman were unwanted, she made it known and it caused an altercation, and he retaliated by falsely claiming she was a terrorist with a bomb.

That is fact. Corroborated by multiple sources and investigators.

https://deadline.com/2018/04/t-j-miller-charged-calling-in-fake-bomb-threat-train-arrested-1202361644/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43719494
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/10/entertainment/tj-miller-arrest/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/t-j-miller-arrested-at-nyc-airport-after-making-false-bomb-threat-on-amtrak-train-officials-say
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/arts/television/tj-miller-charged-false-bomb-report.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/04/10/former-silicon-valley-actor-t-j-miller-has-been-charged-with-calling-in-a-fake-bomb-threat/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.850d028e05bf

Things of this magnitude don't happen as simple mistakes. They almost always are signs of an existing pattern.

The pattern, to the surprise of nobody, was what those women from his college shared. You don't have to believe their claims, but Kira and so many others have brought up that it is a fact that most of the time these types of claims are legitimate. It is very rare when they aren't. You can't refute the math because of some anecdotal evidence or feeling.

I'd rather believe the women who may have suffered through a traumatic event over the man who makes light of the alleged sexual assault by making jokes about it and hasn't ever even attempted to at least do something to show his respect to women.

I haven't stopped enjoying Deadpool or Big Hero 6 or HTTYD or anything else I've enjoyed with TJ Miller in it. I'll play through San Fransokyo and enjoy the game, too. I don't have to enjoy knowing TJ Miller is in this game.

None of us should forgive him, or be expected to forgive him.

That isn't mature, that is being ignorant of reality. That's taking a privileged stance to compartmentalize where it suits you.

We all know where we stand on this, so I think it is best to close this now.