While I'm excited for the story, the gameplay is sounding more and more like KH2 with Flowmotion. I'm kind of bitter.

Glad to hear the staff has more say over what worlds are put in than Disney, though. Maybe one of them watched Kim Possible.

Well this clears up some people's concerns about the issue. Personally I expect we'll see more anti-sora after the events of DDD. Though I hope this doesn't mean glide will once again be limited to Final Form. I also think Dual Wielding will be insane with keyblade transformations. Does this mean DUAL KEYBLADE TRANSFOMATIONS. I'm hoping combos will create awesome new things.

Were you expecting more BBS style gameplay.

I'm glad too. Also Kim Possible would be great.

I was expecting the series to continue the growth in gameplay the BbS started and that Re:coded and DDD continued with. Not the inferior system that was KH2 to return (which is definitely because of the casual fan base. Ugh)

I'm glad too. Also Kim Possible would be great.

Never givin' up that hope.

I always preferred KH2 gameplay and if drive forms came back it would be amazing. I am surprised you say this is like kh2 at all though. Unfortunately it feels like one of the handheld games with all of the features of them. What with transforming keyblades, and annoying flowmotion (sigh), and sadly no summons it looks like. I was fearing this the minute I heard the Osaka team was working on the project instead of the original team. However it will still be amazing and I am pleased and impressed with what has been seen thus far!

But have you played the new games though, they were actually really fun.

If they return i hope they're more balanced,after you get Final and Limit,Valor and wisdom are pretty much ignored completely.

Now with the battle system the only thing i really liked about BBS was the varied attacks,though with kh2 i didn't like how it was pretty much endless combo's but at the same time i preferred the fluid combo system of kh2 over BBS,especially on critical.

Honestly not sure how I feel about Drive forms returning. At some point, the breadth of gameplay gimmicks is going to hurt the depth of each. Nice for variety, definitely, but I've got a feeling there are going to be a lot of features that players won't even get around to using.

One idea came to mind, though, that could make this actually pretty cool. Instead of your traditional Valor/Wisdom/etc forms, I'd like to see variations on Limit form. Give me options for not just KH1 Sora's move set, but KH2 as well. And maybe other characters connected to Sora, like Roxas and Ven.

KH2's base combat system was heads and tails above BBS. It's combo system, strategies, variety and sheer smooth-ness was incredible.

BBS only featured a different way of accessing different skills. It's shotlock system was broken, aerial combos were fairly useless, form changes were unbalanced, bosses were made badly and dodge was completely broken.

If you had KH2's combo-system + magic, with BBS commands and 3D flow motion, you'd have the perfect game.

I have played DDD, actually seeing flowmotion return I am going to replay DDD and try to use it more to force myself to like it so I can find away to enjoy the gameplay! I sadly never got the opportunity to play BBS but from watching videos I did not like how the gameplay was looking.

I just hope Drive Forms and Keyblade Transformations don't make Sora OP.

Not sure how I feel about Drive Forms making a possible return. Aside from not really liking them to begin with (though Valor Form was okay) we already have enough variety with Attraction Flow, transforming Keyblades, and possibly regular summons (I feel like I'm missing one) that Drive Forms would be too much on something that could already be too much.

Same here. And Command Deck forever!

Honestly Sora already looks incredibly OP,i don't think he can get any more OP than he is now.

I presume we'll get the Keyblade Transformations later in the game. Maybe mid-game.

How are normal enemies even gonna be a threat to Sora? lol

Could the enemy difficulty be tweaked as you level up?

Jesus, how many features are going to be in this game. We got free running, attraction flow, keyblade transformations, flowmotion, magic, unison attacks, and now the possibility of drive forms. I'm so curious how its all going to play. I guess this is why there going back back to the command menu instead of the deck.

Still wouldn't matter all that much if Sora's bouncing around like a madman, summoning ships, trains and tea cups out of thin air and transforming both himself and his Keyblade, supposedly making him even more difficult to hit. He'd basically avoid getting hit at all times.

I will agree that KH2 beats BbS in how it handles ground and aerial combos, as well as defensive spells like Reflect (my old friend that saved my life to many times), but majority of the spells in KH2 were kinda meh or improved in BbS and onwards. Fire returns to a KH1 style while Fire Surge becomes and evolved form of KH2's fire line. Blizzard and Thunder kind of become obsolete because of the OP versions you can get by melding. Magnet remains the same, while Gravity returns in an amazing way. Cure is pretty much the same in all games. But to add on to that, BbS and onwards added on a great multitude of spells, such as Balloon, Mega Flare, Time Splicer, etc. The only thing it lacked was KH1's Aero (which has never returned, sadly).

But also, remember, I said BbS onward. So I didn't mean strictly BbS. Form Changes were evolved fairly well in Re:coded (which I still, to this day, think has the best gameplay in the series). Shotlocks were definitely broken on normal enemies but for the endgame bosses and secret bosses were a huge blessing (and tbf, KH2 had a just as broken system as Shotlocks known as Drive Forms. DDD, however, got rid of both of these). The only bosses from KH2 I felt were better than BbS-DDD bosses were the Absent & Data Org battles, and that's only because they're endgame and require strategy, unlike majority of the KH2 bosses (which also required you to eitehr land a final combo hit to finish a boss or use magic, which was just ridiculous).

That being said, if KH3 has KH2's normal fighting style (combos) and BbS-DDD style of magic commands and attack commands, with the Flowmotion (which KH3's actually looks like an improved version, so yay there), then I'd fine that to be a perfect game. But it looks like the Command Deck is dead forever.



100% convinced they'll only be a threat to Donald and Goofy, gameplay wise.

Very happy to see them return. Although I can't really think of any ideas for new forms, that is if they're even creating new ones to begin with. I'd personally like to see only 2-3 forms that are completely different from each other.

While we're on the topic of gameplay, I loved that the E3 trailer showed how they were taking the best from both the console and handheld games. I prefer the traditional command system over the command deck, KH2 had the best core combat IMO.

I always preferred KH2 combat because I actually want to hit stuff with the keyblade which is the weapon of choice, so I loved the combos and duelweilding. I don't want to use guns or some other weird stuff which is why I am not a huge fan of the new features yet. (I like magic though, but that's when it is clearly being used by the keyblade). Personally I would rather have our traditional summons, drive forms, and limit commands, then what we are getting.

The idea of certain Disney characters inspiring Drive Forms is actually an interesting idea. If they ever did something like that, it'd most likely be protagonists/party members. Hercules-themed drive form, Aladdin-themed, Mulan-themed, etc. Especially if they carry over the styles of the movies into the clothes.

EDIT: Although, how awesome would Drive Forms based on Maleficent or Hades be?

I'm okay with Sora getting the Drive Forms back. I'm also in the KH2 camp. That game, to me, had the best gameplay. It looked awesome, and it made me feel powerful and fast. I've played BBS on the PS3 and I'm just not as big a fan of the gameplay. Haven't played 3D, but excited to try it.

Stuff like the transformations and attraction flow are basically just over-glorified shotlocks so it's not like you're gonna be forced to use them, they're meant for crowd control. All they've shown us is an evolution of the things you mentioned (and you gotta admit, the summons were cool but most of them sucked).

I agree with and like your reply. The summons did suck I never used them, but I would still rather have them just because they were a kh1 and kh2 thing and this is kh3 the game ive been waiting for. I want it to stick with all the same stuff as the last two as much as it can. Also they could just make the summons better, them sucking in the previous games doesn't really matter.

I'd love Drive Forms to be back to be honest. They make for incredible variety in boss battles, so many different strategies you can use. I wouldn't have beaten Lingering Will had it not been for Final Form.

I'm in the mindset that adding too many options could be a bad thing. I'm mostly concerned about the balance. I mean its all well and good to be all flashy and cool but enemies should at least pose some threat, and honestly more importantly to me the Disney characters shouldn't just be treated as fancy power ups for Sora. Which Drive Forms were a huge contributor to...the other being Limits obviously.

So, I don't want any of the old forms but Limit coming back, at least in the way there were. Honestly, I find Keyblade Transformations more interesting, so if I had to pick a transformation ability it would be those. That being said...transformations inspired by Disney characters sounds more intriguing :P

But yeah, balance is my biggest fear gameplay wise...everything already shown looks like its shaping up to be a fun experience if they pull it all off like they want.

Good lord flowmotion, transformations, magic and now drives? Thats quick territory to the easy and boring state KH2 had before it's final mix added level one playthroughs.

I'd rather not have drives back or if they do I want something taken in it's place or at least for them to not be overpowered as hell. But I'd rather not have them back.

I loved Drive Forms; they made KH2 feel unique and gave a nice spin on the combat. It felt like a natural progression of Sora's abilities, to go from wielding one Keyblade to wielding two...going Valor for the first time was just such fun, and unlocking each Form as the game went on, exploring their various combo set ups and abilities, made for a good time. I'm interested to see how they implement the Keyblade transformations in light of that, since it also feels like a natural progression of Sora's abilities, but stuff like turning his Keyblade into a Pegasus driven chariot feels awkward and hokey. I can see a cannon or a pair of magical guns; but there's a point where one has to wonder, if there are no limitations on this kind of thing, why not just turn the Keyblade into a giant frigate and nuke Xehanort?

I feel you on this. It's called a Keyblade. There's something to be said (both in terms of narrative and gameplay) for keeping the original function of your magical weapon relevant.

looks like Critical mode might be a must for this not to be a cake walk.

I just thought of something. What if he has drive forms at the beginning, and it sorta evolves into the keyblade transformations?

That might seem like a natural evolution and not hokey at all, proly not even game breaking. Maybe have costume changes with certain ones too, you never know..

There is the possibility that the gameplay might resemble vanilla KHII, but there is still hope.

In BBS, there were many powerful gameplay options, however, the enemies still posed a good challenge. Perhaps the gameplay will look like that.

It's still too early to say but it seems each Keyblade will have a unique summon-esq attraction flow, like how in the trailer Sora had the Keyblade from the Hercules world and he summoned Pegasus. It looked pretty efficient so I wouldn't mind if they designed all the summons like this.

If they do add them they must have some big upgrades, since Sora can perform most of the basic drive functions without them.

When they first unveiled the game or during D23 didn't they claim it was actually challenging? Like that the enemies were actually difficult, and I think a lot of these options already existed. Hopefully that's still true, or will be true. I mean, the enemies barely moved in the trailer, but so did Donald and Goofy who were said to have better AI now that makes them "act like themselves." Ideally, both of these will come to fruition.

I think that's actually just that Keyblade's transformation. Which is way more interesting than just guns imo haha.

I'M SO HAPPY I COULD CRY!!!

I think I am crying...but the tears are manly so its okay lol I don't want drive forms, just the ability to have multiple keyblades, or at least to have specific forms. Like a form that transforms all of your moves into fire based attacks, or electric based attacks, and for them to be form exclusive. Fusing his multiple wielding ability with magic and even his keyblade transformations is the step above the loved and hated command styles (It's really the PSP's fault, as well as the poor, gimmicky, and often accidental and repetitious execution of the mechanic). All of my disappointment from the trailer just evaporated! This is why I always trust in Nomura despite the things that happen!!


Oh, and they've confirmed that enemy AI will be a lot smarter than they have been in previous titles, so don't think you'll just easily demolish everything. Especially on harder difficulties. Nomura used the Heartless Wave from the announcement trailer as an example when explaining how enemy behavior has drastically evolved. He also said in the past, enemies had pre programmed action patterns. Now allies and enemy AI have their own individual though process and act according to the situtaion, so don't worry about being too overpowered at appropriate places in the game. (Unless you are a player who level grinds and are like 15 levels ahead of where you're supposed to be...then yea, you may be a little overpowered lol)


Variety is what I so desperately want, so I'm not mashing the same combos and magic throughout the entire game. It looks like this game will have more than ever before. I mean, Summons, Flowmotion and Flowmotion Attacks, Attraction Flow, Magic (hopefully still very diverse somehow) Many Keyblade transformations that also have unique combos (confirmed), Limits (Team Attacks like the goofy shield in the trailer) Potential Drive/Command Style like forms, FF and Disney partners returning, enemy and Boss specific reaction commands (confirmed? Big Thunder Mountain sequence) Dramatic Aerial Abilities (confirmed) Giant Air Battles without touching the ground (confirmed), enemies that lift up entire buildings, with you still inside! (confirmed), and even more that they've already confirmed and haven't even seen yet. That is the epic battle system I've been waiting for, and we still have so much to learn and see.

My hype has been restored 10 fold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edits:

This is why I too favor KH2 over all installments. I want even get started on how embarrassing basic keyblade combat was in in BBS and to a degree DDD. The fluidity and speed of KH2 have not been matched thus far. I like to get in close and connect with the keyblade, not run away the whole time and spam magic from a distance. And as for shotlock, I literally beat the game forgetting it was a feature. I only remembered when I saw how people abuse it to beat harder bosses (I mean, I think you were literally invincible for many of them)





This was my vision for KH3. The fast and fluid combos and movement from 2, as well as summons (much better than the terrible ones from 2...) Multiple Wielding and Limits, the amazing variety of magic and attacks that came from BBS and DDD (As well as a vastly improved and optional transformation system, combined with multiple wielding) and a much better balanced Flow Motion from DDD. That's why the trailer made me just a little concerned.


Also, too many things just thrown together can lessen the quality of the overall game. But I don't believe there's anything wrong with having a variety of ways to attack, to keep gameplay fresh. As fun as KH2 is, I will admit that it can be repetitive at times. The old plus the new would make for something very diverse throughout the entire game. As you will get new keyblades (new transformations), new abilities and magic, and basic upgrades like Combo Plus and even more interesting ones like Berserk Charge or MP Rage. It's also going to feel so good to have a proper ability menu and system like KH2.

If drive forms are returned, does it mean Sora and Roxas still retain their special connection between them and Then-awakened Ventus to initialize their borrowed keyblades at same time in order to dual wield?

I'd love to see Ventus dual wield with Sora's keyblade in a unqiue way or maybe like Zidane. :P

I still don't get why everybody loves flowmotion :o. It is the one thing I can't stand and never wanted in the game which is why the trailer bothered me! I don't feel like Sora should be able to jump and fly all over the place with a glowing sparkly trail. It makes it pointless to run up to enemies and attack them like normal, also it makes being able to glide useless. On top of it being overpowered.

Flowmotion is essentially being able to do the "stunts," as I like to call them, from KH2 but actually being able to move around yourself. As someone who found Flowmotion to be very overpowered at the beginning of DDD, I would have agreed then, but by the end of the game Flowmotion was pretty much just as useful as regular attacks, since the wrong Flowmotion action could cause you to run straight into an attacking enemy, be vulnerable, etc. Flowmotion starts off overpowered but it loses that by the end of the game. As for making glide useless, is some ways it does, but in other ways, glide is actually better for use than Flowmotion (especially where Flowmotion isn't possible).

It's also worth noting Flowmotion is optional and not something you have to use, excluding some platforming. It's also been known since the first KH3 trailer that it was coming back since Nomura said it was, and we even see it a bit in action there (albeit with no color trail).

Aww c'mon who wants to go with the popular stuff I say we bring in one of the lesser known ones but still pretty popular Disney's FREAKING FILLMORE!

Damn Valor, Wisdom, Master, Brave and Final...
I think that at this point, they should begin with Master Form or just innovate the old ones.. cooler than ever!

Can't say that I'm too thrilled with the possibility of having the stupid, overpowered Drive Forms back.
They will have to readjust them anyways though as depending on when Ventus is finally rescued and awakened (and not counting the fact that Nomura may create an asspull to still allow it), dual-wielding should be history in Sora's case.

Alongside the new Keyblade Transformations, the Disney Rides and Flowmotion abilities adding forms too would make Sora way too overpowered. Especially when we take a look at all the other characters who have a vastly more limited arsenal (so far) compared to him.

I forget why, but I know Xemnas lied about Nobodies having real emotions. Wasn't it because they actually had a heart? (I have forgotten DDD's details lol) If so, Roxas being with Sora justifies a second keyblade. In any case, Sora transforms one keyblade into two separate guns. He should be able to do the exact same things with a blade or keyblade of some sort, which is what I assumed they would do. I think him not doing that would be the real frustration, when he is clearly capable with or without any additional hearts. So I think he would have utilized a dual wielding like mechanic with or without Drive Forms (Which I don't truly want back the way they are. I want the next level of drive forms, which is 2+ keyblades/weapons with elements and special abilities attached like command/link styles.) And drive forms were always optional, never necessary.


Also, I really don't think all the variety will result in Sora being OP, especially since enemies themselves are getting such a dramatic upgrade in 3 (Wave of heartless, Heartless that lift up entire buildings with you still inside, etc). If there is anything to be concerned about, I think it's having too many things and making some features useless or something players rarely or never use.

Lol honesty if Sora is capable in turning his keyblade into a chariot/Gun/Bigger Gun how hard will it be to turn it into another blade to dual wield with.

That just seems like child play at this point for him.

The fact Xemnas lied about (in fact only Xemnas, Xigbar and Xehanort himself even knew about it, DiZ found it out during his research, but refused to believe it due to his hatred for Nobodies), was that Nobodies can regain/regrow an own heart by connecting with the world and living things.
Nobodies have no hearts, but they can gain one by different means than the one Xemnas was propagating (through the fake KH) all the time.
Xemnas deliberately made it look like his way was the ONLY way in which Nobodies can gain a heart.

The proposal you bring though would still not allow Sora to dual-wield truly two Keyblades.
Roxas' heart being present would indeed allow dual-wielding ability, but 1st is Roxas more or less also scheduled to become is own entity and 2nd Roxas has no Keyblade. He was always using either Sora's or Ven's.
If you count in Xion's heart, Sora would technically even be qualified for triple wielding, but she too has no own Keyblade.

I am less concerned with cheap mooks/cannon fodder like Heartless but his abilities in comparison to the other central characters, allies and enemies alike.
With Sora being such an overpowered allrounder, the other characters like i.e. Riku, Mickey, Aqua, Ventus etc. will look like pathetic weaklings if they aren't upgraded as well.
Bosses like Xigbar/Braig, Saix/Isa or Maleficent would become a laughable joke (Sephiroth in KH2 IS already a joke because of the Drive Forms, in Final Mix even more than the Vanilla KH 2 because you can use Limit Form alone) and don't get me even started on Donald and Goofy who would probably be just there as eye candy since Sora can blast apart everything but the hardest secret bosses on his own.



Yea, of course, the Transformations give the golden opportunity to have a dual-wielding capability without having to look at any of the rules for true dual-wielding.
This one has however some small limitations of its own. One is that it is dual-wielding not two Keyblades but one blade split in two and second is that it is stated that transformations are unique to each Keyblade.
So in order to dual-wield you would need to have the Keyblade equipped that allows this transformation.

@Sephiroth0812


I see, thanks for the refresher. The one potential "plothole" is indeed that Roxas doesn't have a keyblade. But then again I'm not so sure about that. It's not like Sora uses Ven's keyblade when he calls a second keyblade (Unless it somehow just is and Sora's different keyblade chains are giving it a different shape). So I'm still no so convinced that a heart that can wield a keyblade isn't enough. (and yea, I though of Xion too. And whether a person believes it to be canon or not, he used 3 keyblades in KH2 final mix when fighting Roxas)


As for TAV, it's not KH3 Sora that makes them look weaker in comparison, it's all of BBS.....That's why I don't like it nearly as much as KH2. They're supposed to be master level, but endgame KH2 Sora is more powerful in combat. Look at Lingering Sentiment from KH2 Final Mix, and then Look at Terra in BBS....the difference is so night and day it's borderline embarrassing. But I see Lingering Sentiment as a preview of what TAV will be like in KH3 (and that was 10 years ago!), so I wouldn't worry about that at all.


Also again, as Sora levels up in KH3, so will enemies and bosses. Remember when Nomura made Osaka team power Sora down because there was a point where just "moving around made him invincible"? Even Nomura was a little concerned about how powerful Sora was becoming during the development oh KH3, so I don't believe all of his abilities will result in him being overpowered since they are paying close attention to this kind of thing. They stated they intentionally made the trailer flashy this time, since they could only show so much (they wanted to show more). Gameplay won't look like that at all times. There were also no working MP or "EX" gauges. In the real game, you won't be able to spam powerful moves and mechanics, so you won't just effortlessly destroy everything in your wake lol It'll all be fine :D And if Drive Forms do come back in some form, it's almost guaranteed that they'll be 100% optional like in KH2.

That is exactly what both Sora and Roxas are doing when they dual-wield. That has been confirmed in the BBS Ultimania. The two Keyblades in use are always Sora's and Ven's. Sora and Roxas even both wield Sora's Kingdom Key at the same time (during Chain of Memories) because of their close special relationship. This was also plainly stated in an interview (either from CoM or from KH 2). Ven's Keyblade came only into the mix when Xion disappeared as the shock and emotional turmoil Roxas felt at this event were so strong that he accidentally accessed Ven's sleeping heart and unsealed his Keyblade.
Xion's "Keyblade" on the other hand was never more than a cheap sham, as confirmed by Riku in-game during Days, a fake that could only function because she was siphoning Sora's memories of the Keyblade to power the copy.



All that endgame KH2 Sora has is that everything is more flashier and over-the-top (like KH 2 in general is), lol.

Disregarding the obvious inferiority of the PSP hardware-wise, the attacks, techniques and abilities shown in BBS itself were suitably powerful, especially the shotlocks which some players even mark as overpowered as well. They just weren't as eyecatching as KH 2 (and there were no skyscrapers to slice apart).
Aqua fought Hades and a copy of the Ice Titan at the same time and won, faced Terra-Xehanort and the giant Heartless in the Dark Realm, Terra held his own against MX and Vanitas together while Ven went one-on-one with Captain Hook, Maleficent in her human form and an X-blade-wielding Vanitas, all no small feats that can certainly put on the same level of respect than most of the stuff Sora pulled in KH 2.
This presentation is what throws people off and has many claim that Sora is stronger (and of course the notion that he's the protagonist and the protagonist has to be always the strongest because reasons).
Moving away from solely the BBS-crew though, the same issue applies also to Riku, Mickey, Roxas or any of the major villains as well, and most of those did already have their debut in a "big" console title.
Even when looking solely at KH 2, I guess no one can deny that despite being said to be on roughly equal level of power, what Riku can do and show during KH 2 pales big time to what flashy things they made Sora capable of.
Mickey can do some Yoda-like jumping and shoot some light pearls, but otherwise you don't see that he's supposed to be a Master that surpasses both Sora and Riku.

It's true that maybe I'm overanalyzing, but KH 2 with its total overdone hollywood flashiness and overpowered techniques but close to zero real substance really rubs me the wrong way. It's gotten even stronger again since I could play HD 2.5 recently and see it again in all its glory. The only thing that is really a challenge difficulty-wise in KH 2 are the Lingering Will and the Org Data-battles. Even Sephiroth is a walk in the park if you use everything that you have at your disposal.

The last game I remember were enemies actually level up just like the player does was FF VIII, whereas in KH the only games I remember were regular enemies pose any kind of true challenges are KH 1 and DDD.

I think that after you cleared Hollow Bastion in KH1 enemies in every world were replaced with stronger ones.

They did.

In fact, I kind of always forget about that. I kind of wish the other games did that, because I don't think they did. Sure, KH2 did when you revisited everything, but even then, a lot of the worlds were still pretty easy. In KH1, revisits could be sometimes challenging, depending on your level/where you went (waiting to do Monstro until after Hollow Bastion was a monstrosity).

^^^ I think KH2 revisits changed the Heartless with the Nobodies. I remember having a hard time with some Nobodies. But the Sorcerers Nobodies on TWTNW were pretty annoying even on Beginner Mode... Dx

I loathed some of those revisits when it came to those moments. Replacing the Heartless with Nobodies in certain areas made everything feel so much more somber. Though some revisit bosses made up for it.

Nobodies aren't as colorful and varied as the Heartless. The motif around the Nobodies are FINAL FANTASY Jobs with white and gray color scheme, so they were a bit boring because of that.

But back on the topic of Drive Forms (LOL), does anyone think old Drive Forms will make a comeback, will new ones be added, or will new ones replaces all of the old ones (or some)?

WISDOM!!! Please, that's like my fav form ... but then again, with the twin blaster gun thingy shooting fireballs, it might be redundant.

I thought I was the only one !!

Have you tried a Level 1 run?