Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

So are going to have more DLC talk, when I thought people didn't want DLC?

I'm still confused

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Take the Final Mix version of Kingdom Hearts 2 as an example of how it would have worked in the current climate of video game development.

Things included as free patches:
- A new difficulty (Critical Mode).
- "Limit Form" Drive Form.
- Various changes to gameplay, such as the Morale bar in Land of Dragons and conditions to end scripted battles.
- Puzzle mini-game.
- New cutscenes.
- The Mushroom XIII mini-game.
- New boss fight with Roxas.

Things that could be sold as an expansion:
- Cavern of Remembrance with Organization XIII boss fight.
- New optional boss with the Lingering Will.
- Cosmetics such as Keyblades.

DLC for Kingdom Hearts 3 means that we won't have to wait for a Final Mix re-release a year after the game comes out. We would receive patches that will change gameplay based on feedback. We would receive additional story elements, just like KH1, KH2, and BbS added. We would receive new optional bosses and whatnot that couldn't be added in time for the main release.

Nomura already prepared Osaka to plan for things to be released via free patches or paid DLC if it wasn't complete in time for the games launch (this shouldn't affect the main story, unlike BbS adding an entire scenario to end Aqua's story (though that was originally sequel bait for a game that got cancelled and retooled into Kingdom Hearts 3's prologue)).

It makes the game more accessible as it changes gameplay. It brings users back into the game after they are done to try out changes and new bosses / explore areas.

We no longer have to be jealous of Japan getting Final Mix versions of the game while we get nothing. They no longer have to charge full price for a Final Mix version of the game as well, as you can pay just a fraction of that for a season pass or DLC content.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

I personally don't get all the hate towards DLC's. I mean as long as they don't cut content from the main game and try to sell it seperatelly I honestly don't see any problems in it. Also I don't want them to add any Cutscenes afterwards cause I thought it was very annoying in FF15. If there are story holes they should be filled before the game comes out in first place.

I would love them to release DLCs about Lea's & Kairi's training, Riku's visit to the dark realm (unless Riku actually ends up being a playable character in the main game) and maybe a DLC where you get to play Xehanort and see some of the things from his perspective?! As for a multiplayer DLC I think it would be neat for them to maybe base it of Union X? Just like how the FF15 Multiplayer DLC had a story that was also relevant to the main game. Cause I don't see how Union X could ever translate into a full game so y'know maybe they could transform it into some 3-4 hour multiplayer game idk. :confused:

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Of course I'm not excited about DLC at all, but I'm only posting to say what a load of crap that statement is. "We think of it as a way to keep games fresh and exciting, lalala." We know the only thing you're thinking of is dollar signs.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

I mean, find me a video game company that doesn't think of dollar signs.

The way they've kept "games fresh and exciting" for FFXV has worked, the season pass sold to a bunch of people and there's new and unexpected content being added to the game for free. They did a survey on Japanese players for FFXV and if they bought the season:

"Cleared players - 64% bought the season pass / 25% didn't buy "People who did not clear - 41% bought / 50% did not buy"

64% of players who beat the game bought the season pass. 41% of people who didn't beat the game bought the season pass. It's a small sample size but those are good numbers for season passes. I mean, it was successful enough to warrant a second season pass and a year of more content.


They use their games as a service to retain a player base - a player base that won't trade or sell their games. Delivering free content means people are more likely to hold onto their games. People holding onto their games means they will get to experience changes and content via patches. This also means they might be more likely to bite into DLC down the line.

If you don't want to support a company who is just "thinking of... dollar signs" then don't download any patches and don't buy any DLC that comes out. Just buy the base game and have your fun with it.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

I already plan to do that. My only point was the pack of lies these companies like to spew to put a positive spin on corporate greed. I'd rather they say nothing at all.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Is it a pack of lies? They've shown commitment to adding free content to their games, with Final Fantasy XV being the shining example. We knew before the game launched that it would get three DLC expansions and a multiplayer add-on. We didn't know that they would added so many free things via patches, but just look at what Square Enix developed and released, for free, as part of the GaaS initiative:

[LIST] [*]Timed (online) Quests were introduced but are now over. These were incorporated into the main game via a "daily" quest system. [*]You can now take on several hunts at once. [*]You can now change the time of the day at camps. [*]Vendors have been updated in Altissia. [*]Aranea is now a training partner at camps. [*]Level cap is now 120. [*]You can now store up to 200 photos. [*]PS4 Pro/XB1X Support. [*]You can use the music player while on a chocobo. Several music tracks have been added to the music player as well. [*]Magic spells using the ring are considerably stronger. [*]Type-D Regalia was added and features off-road driving. [*]Cross-chain attacks (from Episode Duscae) are back after you complete a quest available from Chapter 8 onwards. [*]A bestiary was added. [*]You can now swap characters in battle after getting the appropriate skill in the Ascension Grid. [*]You can now view the bros' character swap abilities in the gear menu. [*]Several battle quotes / banter have been added to the game. [*]There's now a Chapter Select Screen and New Game Plus. [*]A few scenes were added to Chapter 12. [*]Chapter 13 Verse 2 was added if you want to experience this part of the story from a different point of view. [*]One of the final boss fights has been slightly updated, featuring a new model and slightly different dialogue so that the changes to Chapter 12 make more sense. [/LIST]

These are all wonderful quality of life changes for the game that was developed and released in a patch for free. The paid stuff we knew about, excluding the second season pass and the Royal Edition but they're working on a fix for that blunder. There's also no microtransactions in Final Fantasy XV. There aren't any for Dissidia: Final Fantasy as well, despite having loot boxes. In fact, I think it was just the Western studios that dabbled in MTX a while back, but since then Square Enix went on the record and said MTX won't be added to their console games.

Like I said early in the thread, the Final Mix content wouldn't have been sold for full price in a re-release if those games were developed in this climate. The Cavern of Remembrance would have been a boss rush expansion pack. Aqua's Secret Episode would have been paid DLC. Various mini-game additions and QoL changes would have been free content.

Don't support the company and its "corporate greed" when they release their Final Mix DLC after KH3 releases. That is your right, but don't act like KH wouldn't have done exactly this if DLC was a thing a decade ago.

So if we look at the history of Kingdom Hearts and try and see what Square could do for Kingdom Hearts 3, we are looking at quality of life changes, new cutscenes, and maybe mini-games and whatnot that they just didn't plan for as free. We are looking at extra scenarios (like Aqua's secret episode) and a dungeon / optional bosses as paid DLC, and going off FFXV's expansions - which went from bare bones to meaty DLC - were all $5 USD each (multiplayer was $10 USD I believe).

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Did I? You're fully on board the DLC train, I get it. I'm not. I'm sorry if that's upsetting.

Moving along, I'll be positive and hope the tidbit about Marvel is a sign those properties will not be in KH3.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

I don't have anything against DLC in itself, what I'm against is when the core product is decreased in quality on account of DLC(pointing at you, EA games).

So long as KH doesn't go down that path, I don't have any complaints. But if it looks like core/important scenarios are missing from KH3, then thrown in days later with a ridiculous fee attached to it, then I won't bother buying it(or anything that follows that model).

So far it doesn't look like Square is trying to EA everyone, they do have some respect for quality in their DLC models. I think there's more to be gained than lost in Matsuda's GaaS vision.

Not going to mention my disdain for how they handle mobile games because that's a different issue. I'm only adding this bit here in-case someone mentions my little rant at KhuX.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Sorry, that was my bad. I misread part of your intentions and made a bad call. I do humbly apologise for that gaf.

Edit: I wouldn't say I'm fully on board the DLC train, more that I'm fully on board the inevitability of DLC after observing Square Enix's behaviour with their other franchises and listening to what Nomura said.



The Mass Effect 3 ending being held behind DLC, and Final Fantasy XIII-2 falls into this as well, is disgusting practice and not what games should do. Thankfully Square Enix have learnt from that as XV had a complete ending (Episode Ignis alternate ending be damned!) in the base game.

Final Fantasy XV was developed over 3-ish years, it is amazing what they were able to pump into that game in a short amount of time but it did leave people with a sour taste in their mouth. I really wouldn't take the mis-steps of XV to show what KH3 could do. KH3 has been in development for longer, and the scenario was finalised a few years back.

I don't expect any of the main scenario to be cut and sold later, but when I look back at the history of the KH series I see scenes and boss fights that were added later on after the vanilla release so it is entirely possible that they could bring those back in via patches.

XV did the right thing with bringing in a chapter select so people can jump in and experiences changes in a specific chapter, but KH hasn't had that, only a cutscene theatre, so I wonder how they would work around that being implemented. Would we early adopters have to just watch it in the theatre mode or will it only be available if we start a new game?

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

"

I mean, find me a video game company that doesn't think of dollar signs.

The way they've kept "games fresh and exciting" for FFXV has worked, the season pass sold to a bunch of people and there's new and unexpected content being added to the game for free. They did a survey on Japanese players for FFXV and if they bought the season:"

"

Is it a pack of lies? They've shown commitment to adding free content to their games, with Final Fantasy XV being the shining example. We knew before the game launched that it would get three DLC expansions and a multiplayer add-on. We didn't know that they would added so many free things via patches, but

just look

at what Square Enix developed and released, for free, as part of the GaaS initiative"

I agree with both of these statements. The only thing I would add on to this is that if you were to look at the console generations up until the PS2, Gamecube, and X Box era, making games was faster and easier due to the low polygon count and storage they took up. Games like FF VII required more than 1 disc of storage. Game companies didn't have to worry about adding in content because the technology was not available at the time.

Move forward to the PS3 and X Box 360 era and dlc started to become another way of making money, especially after the release of the iPhone. The iPhone started to become one of the biggest competitors of modern technology because it could play movies, go onto the internet, become an ebook, an iPod, a phone, a camera, a video chat platformer (in later years), and another way to play games on the go. It was like having a computer in your own pocket and more. As for game developers, this is a nightmare as mobile games are significantly easier to make than games on a home console, had console quality graphics, can be taken on the go, and constantly feeds their players with daily and weekly updates.

Sure you could ask a 20 year old something hard core gamer and they might say they hate mobile games (I for one am not a huge fan of mobile games). However ask your general consumer (specifically kids or casual gamers) and they may be into your candy crushes, angry birds, roblox, Minecraft, Marvel: contest of Champions, etc. That's why Nintendo is trying to take a step forward with both the switch and mobile cell phone games like Fire Emblem Heroes, Pokemon Go, Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp, and Super Mario Run. That is also why we have FFXV: A New Empire, FFXV: Pocket edition, KH: Union X, and Dissidia Opera Omnia, especially how Union X is continuing after 3

Mobile games are killing the traditional video game industry, especially in Japan where there are significantly more people that play mobile games than console games. In the end, mobile games are significantly cheaper to make and bring in more money than console games.

There are good and bad ways to make dlc.

[LIST]
[*]The good: Adding a new adventure that invites the player back into the game without having to reset their save file. Ex: GTA IV's Ballad of Gay Tony, BOTW's Master Trials and Champion's Ballad, HOZD's Frozen Wilds.
[*]The Bad: Micro transactions that make it to where you have to play the slot machine to maybe get a good item instead of just buying the item straight forward. Ex: Battlefront 2, Basically most Mobile freemium games
[/LIST]

I strongly think Kingdom Hearts 3 will have DLC due to the Final Mixes we had in past and with how the video game business is today. Also if you think about it, This is the Kingdom Hearts team's most expensive game to develop. (As a heads up I am acknowledging that FFXV is not a perfect game and the game has people that either really love it or hate it.) As much as I loved FFXV, I just don't want the people that got a sour taste from the game ruining the potential experience for either newcomers to the franchise or just be to bitter to not support a game all because another game from the same company did not meet their standards.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

[FONT=Open Sans]It is a bit unclear how the Kingdom Hearts series could have post-release content added to keep it fresh and exciting.[/FONT]

Huh? This is Kingdom Hearts. The most obvious DLC would just be adding more worlds.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Well, that's the thing. If they have DLC worlds then half the fanbase will be upset thinking that an entire world was cut from the game and held back purely for DLC purposes.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

That's why I don't get why people want that cut content (same with Kairi and Lea or outfits) if it's not in the base game at best. Isn't that the same exact thing people complain about with games. A popular but well known company is under fire for characters not in a possible Story mode as DLC.

Where's that uproar if content is cut here?

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

The closest examples of implementation I can think of are:

- Days & KHUX's selectable missions
- Re:coded's Score Attack and revisiting specific worlds set to each difficulty level

Though not necessarily post-DLC / updates, though KHUX did have some bosses retooled. You're able to actually visit those isolated story arcs without completely starting anew.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

There's a difference here. Worlds are cut at various stages during production. They cut Treasure Planet fairly early into DDD's development, whereas the Jungle Book had a few rooms designed and Pinocchio had character dialogue boxes prepared.

Nomura preparing the team to cut content that won't be ready in time and pushing it out after its release is for things on a smaller scale than an entire world. For example I'm still salty they cut that King boss fight from Kingdom Hearts 2 and would have been thrilled if it had been added back in.

So, what I'm essentially saying is that people want that content that is cut so the game can release without delay. If they stopped development on a world and saved it for paid DLC, it might rub people the wrong way e.g. "why wasn't it included in the main game?", "they cut it just to sell it", "the base game isn't complete" whereas some feature that wasn't ready in time, say a mini-game in Twilight Town, they could just patch it in when it's done.

They're going to have complaints no matter what. It's what happened to FFXV, it will happen to KH3 if stuff has to be patched. You have people with data caps and people without internet on their consoles suffering the most.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Agreed. This is Square basically saying that the DLC from FFXV worked well and we are going to carry on with it with KH3. Thankyou for the cash.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

One reason I could think of why quite some people are sceptical about DLC stuff when it come specifically to Square Enix might be Final Fantasy XIII-2.

That game was a hot mess with DLC and crucial story content was missing and was added via DLC.
I remember that ruffling quite some feathers there and, if one wants to be nitpicky, isn't FF XV almost the same?
When the base game first came out several parts of the fanbase were quite indignant about how XV's story was a whole bucket of missed opportunities with many plot lines and setup arcs feeling as if they're brought up only to be dropped one third the way in.

Sure, the story got tweaked and quite some better with several DLCs, including the Episode: X-extra story features and by now gives a more complete experience, yet I do can understand those people who are of the opinion that all that stuff should have been in the base game to begin with.
Storage is nowadays no more an issue to the only remaining reasons as to why all this stuff isn't in from the beginning is a) time and b) we wanna make extra cash.

If the DLC includes costumes, weapons, additional arena matches (like Gilgamesh in XIII-2 for example) or such areas like Cavern of Remembrance I personally probably won't even bat an eye as such content is indeed only expanding stuff that stands in obvious addition to the complete package the base game already is.
Yet such examples as having the actual ending via DLC like XIII-2 are what give the whole DLC-model a sort of bad rep and alienate especially older video game fans who are used to getting the whole package when they first buy the base game.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

DLC has a bad rep because of companies like Capcom doing things like having DLC content on disc, but still asking you to pay to unlock for these extra characters ( Street Fighter X Tekken ) the fact that 10 years ago, 20 years ago you could have what would be DLC content today on the disc for free. You got the full game on the disc and you unlocked extra content via hard work and searching around and solving puzzles, and yeah what SE is doing by cutting off story on purpose so it can be added back in as a short DLC episode.

SE hasn't gone Capcom or EA levels yet, but it's still depressing that they are following this practice. Yes, they are a business, but you can do your game without cutting out important story plots so they can be future DLC. DLC is fine with it's something very optional like extra clothing, but important story plots ? and extra characters ? That could easily be unlocked by effort ten years ago ? That's just greed.

But there's going to be things like a Episode Lea, Episode Riku and Episode Lea- because Final Fantasy XV/ Final Fantasy XIII fans have told Square that this practice is okay.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

Don't burn me at the stake but honestly I'm fine with DLC being in Kingdom Hearts III as long they don't purposely cut things out of the game to sell it as DLC or have locked-disc content which you can get it unlocked if you pay money.

An episode Lea and episode Ventus or other characters would be interesting.

Re: Yosuke Matsuda on Square's GaaS vision; what it could mean for Kingdom Hearts 3

I want to touch on this because this is interesting. Marvel Games contacting Square Enix was probably the result of Disney Interactive quitting first party video game development. The Marvel partnership is vastly different from the Kingdom Hearts partnership because Marvel is technically working with Square Enix Europe (formerly Eidos Interactive) whilst Disney is working with Square Enix Japan. Sure, both the upcoming Marvel project and Kingdom Hearts have publishing credit to Square Enix, but the parties involved are fairly standalone in the grand scheme of things.

Though speaking of cross-pollination, I'd love to see Sora with an Iron Man Keyblade, Donald with a Mjolnr staff and Goofy with a Captain America shield. I can see Kingdom Hearts being served content all the way till the end of 2019 if it's going to get the Final Fantasy VX reinstatement of DLC.